do any of you tow with "normal" cars??

This is something that really gets me going. It is common sense people at the end of the day. There are LOADS of websites that will tell you what your vehicle can LEGALLY tow. Saying "well, my trailer weighs 1000kg unladen, and the horse weighs 500kgs, that means I am towing 1500kgs which my car can handle" is completely beside the point. LEGALLY you must look at the maximum gross weight - that is the weight your car must legally be able to tow. To say "well it isn't that heavy because it isn't full up" is irrelevent - you must always go by the maximum - if you were involved in an accident with your trailer, you would NOT be insured. That's a six point penalty and at least £2000 fine (and that doesn't even take into account any criminal charges, or the safety of your horses).

For me, the safety of my horses matters more than anything, and I would never tow my horses with a vehicle that I didn't think could cope, just to save pennies. I know there are lots of people that tow with cars out there, that think they are ok doing what they are doing, and that's great for them, but in my opinion it is stupidity. I know people come on here saying "my car is powerful" - power is not completely relevent - what about the weight of your car? Would it be able to hold back 3 tonnes of metalwork and horse if you had to break suddenly? Anyone can say "it's fine, I tow slowly/it is all flat around here/I don't tow in bad weather" but none of that accounts for other road users that might cause an accident you then have to swerve/break to avoid.

I too wish that VOSA/police would turn up at shows and crack down on those towing with unsuitable vehicles, for the horses benefit more than anyone elses.
 
mrdarcy said:
I wasn't the one driving - point is that the trailer was too heavy for the car, which is why it started wagging in the first place.
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I don't know the individual circumstances but the trailer snaking doesn't necessarily occur because the the trailer is too heavy. Happened to me when towing an IW510 (two horses on board) with my Discovery, not sure what happened but when got it under control and pulled over the check the horses my mare had pulled one of her front travel boots off and torn all the velcro tabs off so can only assume that it had slipped she was trying to pull it off and fell sideways onto the trailer side and started the wag.

Snaking can also occur when you're overtaken by a lorry so imo if you tow on a motorway at significantly less than lorry cruising speed then you're asking for trouble.

Back to the individual thread, if you've done the sums and you're legal and safe then why not, although I personally would worry about what would happen if had to stop on a steep hill as mentioned by an earlier poster
 
I tow my (very old) Bahill trailer, which is very lightweight - 795kg, with a vauxhall vectra estate/ 2l diesel. I only ever tow one horse but it tows fine. Not good in muddy fields though!
 
It might tow fine but I'd be very worried you were actually exceeding the weight limits. The max towing weight for a 2l Vectra is 1400kg - so trailer plus one average horse at 550kg already takes you almost up to 1400kg. On top of that you have to add the weight of human passengers plus tack and equipment. To make sure you are towing legally you should load up as you would normally and go to a weighbridge. If you just take a chance and VOSA stop you then you will be immediately be prohibted from driving any further and will be fined - it could be an expensive day.
 
mrdarcy said:
It might tow fine but I'd be very worried you were actually exceeding the weight limits. The max towing weight for a 2l Vectra is 1400kg - so trailer plus one average horse at 550kg already takes you almost up to 1400kg. On top of that you have to add the weight of human passengers plus tack and equipment. To make sure you are towing legally you should load up as you would normally and go to a weighbridge. If you just take a chance and VOSA stop you then you will be immediately be prohibted from driving any further and will be fined - it could be an expensive day.
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Why would you add weight of human passengers and tack you carry in your car to the weight of your trailer/horse? It has nothing to do with towing capacity...
 
ehmm,
as far as I know, the law says that you mustn't exceed your car's MAM and your car's towing limit. So as an example my car's MAM is 1.9t I think, that means that fully loaded and with passengers on board it cannot weigh more, but it's towing capacity is 2,1t - that doesn't mean that I can only tow 200 kg with my fully loaded car, it means that my fully loaded car at 1,9t can still legally tow 2,1t of trailer... unless you carry your passengers in your trailer LOL
 
martlin said:
Why would you add weight of human passengers and tack you carry in your car to the weight of your trailer/horse? It has nothing to do with towing capacity...
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sorry but it does!!! as its ilegal to exceed the gross train weight .. so say your car is 1500kg has a gtw of 3100 kg and has a towing capacity of 1400 kg and you have 4 people, tack feed and food in the car lets say a total of 500 kg your towing capacity is now down to 1100 kg !!!!! ( gross train weight is car, contents and the trailer combined)
 
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A 'car' can be 4x4 not just range rover type P. Mine is a tt quattro (4 wheeled drive) a small sports car and it will hapily tow a trailer,a lot of cars have 4 wheeled drive
 
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zoeshiloh said:
This is something that really gets me going. It is common sense people at the end of the day. There are LOADS of websites that will tell you what your vehicle can LEGALLY tow. Saying "well, my trailer weighs 1000kg unladen, and the horse weighs 500kgs, that means I am towing 1500kgs which my car can handle" is completely beside the point. LEGALLY you must look at the maximum gross weight - that is the weight your car must legally be able to tow. To say "well it isn't that heavy because it isn't full up" is irrelevent - you must always go by the maximum - if you were involved in an accident with your trailer, you would NOT be insured. That's a six point penalty and at least £2000 fine (and that doesn't even take into account any criminal charges, or the safety of your horses).

For me, the safety of my horses matters more than anything, and I would never tow my horses with a vehicle that I didn't think could cope, just to save pennies. I know there are lots of people that tow with cars out there, that think they are ok doing what they are doing, and that's great for them, but in my opinion it is stupidity. I know people come on here saying "my car is powerful" - power is not completely relevent - what about the weight of your car? Would it be able to hold back 3 tonnes of metalwork and horse if you had to break suddenly? Anyone can say "it's fine, I tow slowly/it is all flat around here/I don't tow in bad weather" but none of that accounts for other road users that might cause an accident you then have to swerve/break to avoid.

I too wish that VOSA/police would turn up at shows and crack down on those towing with unsuitable vehicles, for the horses benefit more than anyone elses.
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There seems to be a HUGE grey area around the car towing rating must = MAM of trailer or more. As has been mentioned, no DVLA/VOSA docs have a relationship between tow vehicle and trailer MAMs unless you are towing on a B entitled licence, not B+E. There is an EU law regarding it, but no one seems to have found a solid answer either way.

As Kent pointed out, the majority of the posters on here who have admitted to this sin of towing without a tank of a 4x4 have said they have a single trailer, this knocks a large amount of weight off to start with and also guarantees they can only ever be taking one horse with no room to store junk in the other half either! ;)

Also, those with smaller cars who are towing are far more likely to have researched in detail what their car is capable of, rather than those who see a 4x4 car and think "oh, it's fine, can tow what I like". I get plenty folk looking down their nose at me with my combo, yet no one bats an eye when they see an X-Trail, CRV or Freelander towing a double IW trailer with (sometimes) more than one horse or pony on board?! Yet those vehicles are either the same weight as mine with the same tow rating, or even (for some models) less! I'd bet if you looked at the figures, there would be far more big 4x4s much closer to their limit and less balanced weight-wise than my combo.

I have thoroughly researched what my car is capable of. It's unladen kerb weight alone (1505kg) is more than my trailer with ever weigh (MAM downrated to 1450kg from 1600kg standard) and with it's tow rating of 1800kg, a shed load of torque (due to being a 130bhp 6-speed diesel engine) it is well within it's capabilities. It also has a longer wheel base than plenty SWB 4x4s and so this helps with it's stability. We have never had problems on motorways passing or being passed by other vehicles.

Yes, higher ground clearance would help on uneven showgrounds and 4x4 would be better when it's a little damp or muddy, but, as I mentioned, I got in and out up a steep hill last summer when the ground was super wet and the big 4x4s were being towed.

<steps off soapbox!>
 
I have alorry now so much less to worry about but agree with FigJam that when I did have a trailer I also found it to be a very grey area as to whether it was the MAM of the trailer or the unladen or the actual etc...there is def an EU law stating that your car must be capable of towing the MAM of trailer but as far as I am aware this isn't in force here - as would mean many of the 4x4s usedm, even up to say the SWB shoguns/trooper./many of the double cabs pickups would be borderline on for example a 510....as I believe the MAM of a 510 is something like 2600kg? My SWB pajero's tow weight was 2400...now you'd struggle to get a trailer to actually weigh more than that, but if thats the law.....

MrDarcy - you had a 15hh ARAB that weighed 575kg?!? Mine is Polish bred and admittedly 14.2 and event fit, but he weighs 440kg!! My 16hh LW WB is only 550 and 16.2hh ISH x WB is around the 575-600kg mark. Thats amazing! Was he/she super stocky?
 
Wouldn't it be nice the if th DVLA or what the police or what ever regulating body would write some clear and consise rules on this subject.
Like those who have recently passed their trailer tests I work on the car must be capable of towing the maxiumum weight of the trailer which is stamped on the trailers plate. Why? Because I read that in H&H about 10 years ago, the article said it was to simplyfy things and allow police to do checks without having to send everyone off to a weighbridge.

However since there appears to be no real way of finding out what is really legal and right I wish everyone good luck, cos it's a total mine field.

Do you like my trailers new graphics?

 
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There is a dramatic difference between the towing ability of a car and trailer and an articulated traction unit and a long trailer. The differnce being that a trailer being twoed by a car has the towing hitch at the rear of the rear axel. On an articulated traction unit the hitch is between the front and rear axel. Hence less leverage when breaking.

When towing a trailer with a car it is the kerb weight the weight of the car as supplied by the manufacturer that needs to be taken in to account. The trailer must not exceed the weight of the vehicles kerb weight.
In addition there is a train weight which means that the actual total weight of the car and trailer must not exceed.
A car might be quite capable of pulling a very heavy trailer but that does not mean that it can legally do so.
Another very important issue is to ensure that the tyres on a trailer are trailer tyres and not normal car tyres and that they are inflated correctly to the correct pressure for those specific tyres.
Also ensure that trailers are serviced by a qualified trailer mechanic at least once a year a sthey spend a lot of time standing about in all weathers.
Finally the longer and heavier the towing vehicle compared to the trailer the safer it will be.
 
OWLIE185 said:
When towing a trailer with a car it is the kerb weight the weight of the car as supplied by the manufacturer that needs to be taken in to account. The trailer must not exceed the weight of the vehicles kerb weight.
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This is nonsense! There would be barely any vehicles out there "legal" to tow double horse trailers if that was the case!

For example, Parkers here has a Daihatsu Fourtrak (random model selected!) as rated to tow 3500kg. Plenty reviews on here raving about how great they are. Yet it's kerb weight is listed as 1780kg. As mentioned, an IW510 (which the Fourtrak is plenty capable of towing) would have a MAM of about 2700kg!

OWLIE185 said:
In addition there is a train weight which means that the actual total weight of the car and trailer must not exceed.
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This part is correct and will be stamped on your vehicle's chassis. I think it is equal to the vehicle's MAM + maximum weight it is rated to tow if I remember right?
 
i've not rad through all of this...
but can guess the contents...
personally - i've gone for a truck that can tow 3.5tonnes - i'd rather be safe than sorry and the extra cost to fuel is worth it to feel safe towing my horse.
ooh - but on a different note - figjam is right - the trailer weight must be less than the towing vehicle weight was a rule for UNbraked trailers - braked trailers are fine so long as they are withint the max tow capacity of the vehicle ;)
 
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