Do I actually need to do my trailer test?

[holeymoley]

It’s all about what it says on the plates, what you actually carry is by the by.

Unless you were to be pulled over by putting yourself and others in danger by clearly being immensely overweight some how.

Okay so tell me if I am wrong here.... If my daughters setup is physically possible to be a total combined weight (car, trailer and her horse) 4,000kgs MAM of both car and trailer combined, yet when she is pulled over by whoever and is weighed in at 3,501kgs, is she legally driving because the total MAM of the car and trailer do not exceed the MAM of 4,000kgs?

If she is within the combined MAM of car and trailers limits but the weight is over 3,500kgs total does she need a B+E

It’s been a long day, some what sunnier than usual, for some reason I can’t get my head around the question in the first paragraph of the quote. You would need to have a B + E license for that regardless what it came in at on the weighbridge.

And yes to the second question in paragraph 2

 

[AyDavey21]

Thanks Holeymoley, all i'm trying to get answered is my original comment that you guys said was incorrect which I took from that website and from the original poster.

If you passed the car test after 1997, you can tow a trailer providing the total weight of car, trailer and load does not exceed 3,500kgs.

I'm strong on this because I know that the DVSA set up weighbridge stop checks on an A road near us and were nicking people that didn't have the old style licence, no B+E and their combined weight was over the 3,500kgs limit. A trailer unladen could weigh a few hundred kgs but it could carry a couple of thousand on its MAM so effectively the non b+e holder could tow the trailer unladen providing the total weight of the vehicle, trailer and load is under the 3,500kgs. Correct or incorrect? Because if that is incorrect then the DVSA and Police that were doing stop checks on the A2 clearly need to be educated, yet I cannot see how both of these can be wrong?

That's why I don't see what I originally said and what the training companies website details said are being questioned which says the maximum weight of combined unit can't exceed 3,500kgs without holding grandfather rights or passing the B+E??

If I am missing something here or have it wrong, please let me know

 

[Pippity]

A trailer unladen could weigh a few hundred kgs but it could carry a couple of thousand on its MAM so effectively the non b+e holder could tow the trailer unladen providing the total weight of the vehicle, trailer and load is under the 3,500kgs. Correct or incorrect?

Yes, you have it wrong. As the government website you keep quoting makes clear.

It doesn't matter what the set-up actually weighs. What matters is the MAM.

"tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg"

I suspect the police and DVLA were 'nicking' people who were over their MAM and the licence was irrelevant.

 

[holeymoley]

Thanks Holeymoley, all i'm trying to get answered is my original comment that you guys said was incorrect which I took from that website and from the original poster.

If you passed the car test after 1997, you can tow a trailer providing the total weight of car, trailer and load does not exceed 3,500kgs.

I'm strong on this because I know that the DVSA set up weighbridge stop checks on an A road near us and were nicking people that didn't have the old style licence, no B+E and their combined weight was over the 3,500kgs limit. A trailer unladen could weigh a few hundred kgs but it could carry a couple of thousand on its MAM so effectively the non b+e holder could tow the trailer unladen providing the total weight of the vehicle, trailer and load is under the 3,500kgs. Correct or incorrect? Because if that is incorrect then the DVSA and Police that were doing stop checks on the A2 clearly need to be educated, yet I cannot see how both of these can be wrong?

That's why I don't see what I originally said and what the training companies website details said are being questioned which says the maximum weight of combined unit can't exceed 3,500kgs without holding grandfather rights or passing the B+E??

If I am missing something here or have it wrong, please let me know

That is correct.

The part of the website I quoted earlier stated that the standard driving licence holder, post 1997, could only tow providing the trailer didn’t weigh more than 750kg. That part is incorrect. As has been discussed, providing the whole set up is under 3500kg, the trailer doesn’t specifically have to be limited to 750kg.

 

[phizz4]

This is all very confusing. Work it out like this.
Find the MAM of your car. Find the MAM of your trailer. Add those two figures together, if it comes to more than 3,500 kg you EITHER need to have passed your test before 1997 OR have a B+E licence.
Eg. My Shogun has a MAM of 3030 kg, my trailer has a MAM of 2300 kg, total 5330 kg. I never transport this weight, the two horses weigh around 900 kg, the trailer 1000 kg, add fuel, tack, driver, passenger in the car and the car probably gets up to 2,600 kg. So, my train weight could be 5330 kg but is usually around 4,500 kg. I passed my test before 1997 so don't need a B+E licence. It's all about what the maximum weight is, not what the actual weight is.

 

[holeymoley]

Clearly I read something else or picked it up wrong, I was sure it said a standard B license was limited to towing a trailer of 750kg. Hence why I thought it was incorrect.

 

[AyDavey21]

Yes, you have it wrong. As the government website you keep quoting makes clear.

It doesn't matter what the set-up actually weighs. What matters is the MAM.

"tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg"

I suspect the police and DVLA were 'nicking' people who were over their MAM and the licence was irrelevant.

so it isn’t wrong what I’ve originally been saying is it?????

The limit is 3,500kgs max for anyone that doesn’t have a B+E!!! Whatever blooming way the setup is - trailer more than 750 or less than 750, of the total combined weight of trailer, car and load exceeds 3500 then you are breaking the law and require a B+E.

You’re disagreeing with me but then contradicting yourself by clarifying what I have initially said earlier in this thread.

 

[AyDavey21]

Clearly I read something else or picked it up wrong, I was sure it said a standard B license was limited to towing a trailer of 750kg. Hence why I thought it was incorrect.

I have no idea anymore. All I originally did was post a link to one company and then end up here at 11:00pm.

I’ve literally posted a link to what I thought was helpful information for other people.

admittedly holeymoley the whole thing is confusing around the towing thing. I’m not a guru on towing laws and have never have had to worry having grandfather rights but since my daughters needed to tow I’ve read deep into it like any concerned parent would.

As to the company link I sent, they’ve trained me and a couple of my guys for HGV and CPC and Daughter for B+E.

If they have written something wrong then whoever thinks what they’ve written is wrong needs to call them and tell them. Speak to Daniel or Ian who own the company.

Im Only going by what the government website and a trainers website says.

thanks for your replies all.

 

[sbloom]

Maximum actual weight, and maximum plated weights are not the same.

I think the case of a rig weighing 3501kg is clear, it breaks the rules whoever you're thinking is correct, and no-one here would disagree with you. However, I think your trainer and the advice on here would differ for a set up that is plated 4000kg yet actually weigh 3200kg, your trainer's website would say that's okay, the rules say different.

I am NOT offering advice or an opinion, just trying to surmise...

And IIRC the 750kg limit is for an unbraked trailer, which would not apply to most horse trailers.

Happy to be corrected (by ROG lol)

 

[Pippity]

so it isn’t wrong what I’ve originally been saying is it?????

The limit is 3,500kgs max for anyone that doesn’t have a B+E!!! Whatever blooming way the setup is - trailer more than 750 or less than 750, of the total combined weight of trailer, car and load exceeds 3500 then you are breaking the law and require a B+E.

You’re disagreeing with me but then contradicting yourself by clarifying what I have initially said earlier in this thread.

Okay, this is my last attempt at explaining.

What a set-up actually weighs, on a weighbridge, is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT in terms of licensing.

What matters is the maximum it is legally allowed to weigh.

If my car weighs two tonnes and my trailer has a Maximum Allowable Mass of two tonnes, I cannot drive that combination on a B licence. Even if the trailer is empty and, on a weighbridge, the entire set-up would weigh less than three tonnes.

At least your daughter has her B+E so is legal, no matter what you're telling her.

 

[Annagain]

Pippity is correct.

When it comes to licensing, the MAXIMUM weights apply so the car's GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) and the trailer's MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass) added together cannot exceed 3,500kg. It is possible to downplate a trailer (reduce its MAM) to conform with this requirement provided it still gives you enough of a load to put the horse on the trailer. For example: Your tow car has a kerb weight of 1500kg, GVW of 2100kg and a towing capacity of 2000kg. Your trailer (I'll use a IW 401/3 as it's a popular choice) weighs 770kg (with a MAM of 1600kg) and your horse 500kg. N.B - Once you reduce the MAM of the trailer, its weight + the load it can carry cannot exceed the MAM even if is being towed by someone with a B+E licence. You would need to replate it back to its original weight to increase its capacity.

Even though the ACTUAL weight of car + horse + trailer is less than 3,500kg, the MAXIMUM weights exceed it so it's illegal to tow this on just a B licence. To drive this combination on a B licence you need to downplate the trailer's MAM to 1400kg (GVW of the car 2,1000KG + MAM of trailer 1,400kg =3500kg) This would still allow you to put 630kg of horse on the trailer and be within its MAM.

In addition, the ACTUAL weight of trailer + horse can't exceed the car's towing capacity - in the above combination (and in most cases) the towing capacity is 2000kg and the ACTUAL weight of the horse + trailer is 1270kg so would be fine - but reducing the car's GVW (and therefore the towing capacity) to have a bigger MAM on the trailer wouldn't work. This is not a licensing issue but a car issue hence it being ACTUAL weight that applies.

In the example you mention above, AD21, the 3501kg is potentially illegal in two ways. The first will be that the driver with a B licence is exceeding the 3500kg limit, the second is that, if the MAM of the trailer has been reduced to get the GVW+MAM within the 3500kg limit, the trailer's MAM and/or the car's GVW has been exceeded.

And yes sbloom is also correct - the 750kg limit is for an unbraked trailer.