Do I buy this horse ?19 year old ISH

[Sossigpoker]

Being behind the leg especially at that age to me sounds like lameness I'm afraid. He may well be arthritic amd hence a bit lame , but some gentle hacking should do him some good then.
If you are prepared to care for an aging horse and to put him to sleep rather than pass him along , then I don't see why not.
But please go into it with your eyes open and be ready to accept that he may not be up to more than some gentle hacking. Or if he is , it probably won't be for long.

 

[oldie48]

I am currently riding a 23 year old ex eventer. retired from adv eventing with an injury, rehabbed and did dressage up to medium. He can be "behind the leg" but it doesn't take much to get him on the aids and he'll still do all the lateral work, pop round a 1 metre course and enjoys life. I sold a rather expensive dressage schoolmaster for a decent amount aged 17. He was a perfect hack but was totally sick of the school, sound as a pound and a perfect gent on the ground. Just try him and if he suits you buy.

 

[newboult51]

Thanks guys for your constructive comments. Now also seen a 15.1h 21 year old Connie x cob mare - again the perfect hack and well schooled. Lovely on the ground. This is more my usual hairy native ‘type’ but she is that bit older and is 2 hours from us. She has also had some issues with a foreleg which have resolved apparently. The seller is also comparing potential buyers until she gets the home she likes so may not be a goer anyway.
I’d love to give an oldie a home as I’m in the lucky position to keep him/her forever but choosing is hard!

 

[Annagain]

I understand both your points of view, but if I was forced to sell an oldie I would rather it go to someone who told me they would PTS when the horse couldn't work any more than risk seeing it up for sale again or stood in mud in a typical UK winter. I've seen a lot of miserable looking horses around over the years whose owners presumably think they're giving them a lovely retirement.
.

I understand where you're coming from and I agree on the selling on but not on the retirement. Plenty of horses don't just tolerate retirement but actively enjoy it. Archie is like a different horse since he retired, so much happier. He's been out all day (in overnight) naked for the last two winters and done really well - coat like a yak, plenty warm enough, on one occasion in very heavy rain he was drier underneath his coat than the horses in rugs. He plays with his friends, he grooms the other horses, he's everybody's friend and he's alert and happy. He lost a little bit of weight last year due to a broken tooth but picked up really well over the summer and I'm really pleased with how he's looking going into winter again. We've moved yards and there's less natural shelter at the new one so I'll probably put a 50g on him this winter but standing in mud looking miserable does not reflect his (and I'm sure may other older horses') retirement at all.

 

[Birker2020]

I understand where you're coming from and I agree on the selling on but not on the retirement. Plenty of horses don't just tolerate retirement but actively enjoy it. Archie is like a different horse since he retired, so much happier. He's been out all day (in overnight) naked for the last two winters and done really well - coat like a yak, plenty warm enough, on one occasion in very heavy rain he was drier underneath his coat than the horses in rugs. He plays with his friends, he grooms the other horses, he's everybody's friend and he's alert and happy. He lost a little bit of weight last year due to a broken tooth but picked up really well over the summer and I'm really pleased with how he's looking going into winter again. We've moved yards and there's less natural shelter at the new one so I'll probably put a 50g on him this winter but standing in mud looking miserable does not reflect his (and I'm sure may other older horses') retirement at all.

I have to agree. Apart from the injury Lari sustained which was nothing to do with the retirement yard being at fault and despite the episode of bullying which got dangerous to the point we were going to withdraw him and take him home (when I say home I mean back to the livery yard I've been at for 18 years) he is now doing great.

He gets on with the other horses, has mingled with the herd, the pecking order has been established and he is mutually grooming with other horses and calling out to them when we turn him back out after brining him in for 20 minutes for a feed or groom.

I do think having lots of land helps.

 

[Gallop_Away]

I’m sorry no one should be suggesting to buy an older horse to put them to sleep as soon as they need to retire because that’s “not your thing”

It is an owner's responsibility to make sure that the horse is managed in such a way that it is comfortable throughout its retirement; that it goes to an appropriate livery if its needs can't be met where it previously stayed; and that its life doesn't have to be cut short simply because retiring a horse is "not [the owner's thing]".

Yes, worse things can happen to a horse than being PTS, but, as JBM said, no one should be going into buying a veteran thinking that they'll just put it to sleep if they have to retire it.

some people have such a throw away attitude. Yes there are worst things that can happen to a horse but still I don't think anyone should buy an oldie thinking they'll just put it to sleep when it's no longer useful.

In response to the OP it entirely depends on the horse and the type of work you want it to do. Age is just a number in many cases. My husband's standardbred is 18 next June and still hunts/jumps/moves for fun. We are more mindful of what is being asked of him and he also has mild arthritic changes in his fetlocks but this is managed with supplements currently, although we keep a close eye and have regular checks carried out by our vet/physio.

If the horse is capable of the level of work you want, and you are prepared to accept that the horse may develop health issues that require some management/vet intervention when necessary, and also happy to accept that you will likely be this horse's last home and have the means to retire or pts *if horse is not suitable for retirement*, then I would go for it.

 

[vhf]

Now also seen a 15.1h 21 year old Connie x cob mare - again the perfect hack and well schooled. Lovely on the ground. This is more my usual hairy native ‘type’ but she is that bit older and is 2 hours from us.
I’d love to give an oldie a home as I’m in the lucky position to keep him/her forever but choosing is hard!

The only way you can really choose between them (and any others) is to meet them, ride them, and see which one makes you smile the most. It's a lottery which ones will keep going and which won't even when they're 5.
Eyes and ears wide open, whatever age and situation.
A declared issue (the front leg) might be a red flag and would need enquiring further about, but at that sort of age it would be rare to have never injured anything, you just won't always hear about it... Good luck!

 

[Polos Mum]

This is really only my opinion, I don't mean any offence. But if we have the view that you can only buy a horse if you're prepared to keep it in retirement for 3-5-10 years when he / she can no longer be ridden then I think lots of people will be put off buying very suitable established horses looking for a quieter life.

Yes a 5 y/o can have injuries that lead to retirement, but it's more likely when they are 19 y/o.

An 19 y/o might be perfect for lots of people, where a 5 y/o wouldn't. This perception that you can't PTS until they are on their last legs and really suffering I think is a shame and makes for poorer animal welfare in some cases and puts people off buying just the right horse.

In a utopian world the person paying for retirement would be the person who'd had the horses most valuable years. That isn't realistic.
I am not sure why the person who buys them at 18-25 should be suddenly responsible for retirement.

If it is socially unacceptable to PTS then older horses have less homes to go to and people who need schoolmasters risk ending up with something young / green just to avoid the risk of the cost of 5+ years of retirement livery.

 

[stangs]

In a utopian world the person paying for retirement would be the person who'd had the horses most valuable years. That isn't realistic.
I am not sure why the person who buys them at 18-25 should be suddenly responsible for retirement.

Because, in buying a horse, you buy a living being. You therefore agree to take on the immense commitment and responsibility that is caring for an animal whose welfare is utterly dependent on your decisions.

I appreciate the point you make about people being discouraged from buying suitable older horses. However, ethically, regardless of whether you've owned a horse for one month or ten years, regardless of whether they've helped you achieve your dreams or whether you've done almost nothing together, every horse is equally deserving of a comfortable retirement where nothing is expected of them. No animals needs to 'earn' a retirement through working for humans.

 

[ycbm]

some people have such a throw away attitude. Yes there are worst things that can happen to a horse but still I don't think anyone should buy an oldie thinking they'll just put it to sleep when it's no longer useful.

I absolutely understand your reasoning but I don't think enough homes are available for old horses to restrict sales only to those who will give them a good retirement.
.

 

[Polos Mum]

Because, in buying a horse, you buy a living being. You therefore agree to take on the immense commitment and responsibility that is caring for an animal whose welfare is utterly dependent on your decisions.

I appreciate the point you make about people being discouraged from buying suitable older horses. However, ethically, regardless of whether you've owned a horse for one month or ten years, regardless of whether they've helped you achieve your dreams or whether you've done almost nothing together, every horse is equally deserving of a comfortable retirement where nothing is expected of them. No animals needs to 'earn' a retirement through working for humans.

I do understand, sadly £5-10k a year retirement livery somewhere suitable for what could be 5+ years makes horse riding the privilege of the rich only, which would be a shame.

I think older horses have a real place in the world and have invaluable lessons to teach riders. Telling those riders at the start of their riding careers they can only buy a horse to ride if they have £20k saved up to spend on his retirement, means more older horses face uncertain futures.

We live in a world where people and animals frequently don't get what they deserve sadly.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Some people seem to forget that owning horses is a privilege, not a right. If you cannot afford to care for a horse in its twilight years then perhaps you don't deserve it in it's prime.
They are a living being at the end of it, not an old car that can simply be scrapped when it's served it's purpose.

 

[splashgirl45]

Some people’s idea of a happy retirement can be a bit different. I will always keep a horse in retirement as long as their quality of life is good. I’ve seen too many crippled horses and ponies where the owner cannot see how uncomfortable their lives are and proudly tell everyone that their animal is really old as if that excuses them having a crap quality of life . It is better to PTS rather than sell on an old horse to a dubious future and I find it sad that having owned a horse for many years people are prepared to wash their hands of them by selling… the person selling the mare sounds like they are doing their best to find the right home but once sold they lose any control of the mares future … it would be better to put her on loan IMO

 

[Squeak]

If a horse isn't capable of light hacking then I'd be questioning how comfortable and happy it really would be retired. There are horses that are happily retired but there are also horses that are miserable and in pain.

I think we need to be really careful of stigmatising putting horses to sleep when they can no longer work. For a lot of people retiring horses isn't feasible and PTS is far far better than what can happen to a horse who can't be ridden. If we make it so that horses can't be pts when they can't work we risk creating a huge welfare issue.

15 years ago retiring a horse was fairly rare. It's surprising how much it's changed.

 

[Frano]

I always get older horses. I have retired polo ponies, they are fantastic. I have two at the moment. Brilliant hackers. I think older horses have a lot to offer. You can get vet bills with a horse of any age. Go for it .

 

[ycbm]

Some people seem to forget that owning horses is a privilege, not a right. If you cannot afford to care for a horse in its twilight years then perhaps you don't deserve it in it's prime.

Maybe so, but if the horse already exists then it needs a caring home and a caring home will make sure that the horse is never unhappy or in pain, however that is achieved.

Maybe we should be asking the breeders to guarantee the horse a retirement?

I dread to think just how many sound young ex racers would be being shot every year if every buyer had to commit to offering the horse an unridden retirement.
.

 

[HollyWoozle]

OP, you don’t say yet (unless I’ve missed it) if you’ve been riding this horse already? For me that is really key to giving an opinion.

 

[Widgeon]

OP, you don’t say yet (unless I’ve missed it) if you’ve been riding this horse already? For me that is really key to giving an opinion.

Me too. If you're already riding it and familiar with it then I'd be inclined to go with the known quantity, rather than the Connie mare (nice though she sounds).

 

[Birker2020]

Because, in buying a horse, you buy a living being. You therefore agree to take on the immense commitment and responsibility that is caring for an animal whose welfare is utterly dependent on your decisions.

I appreciate the point you make about people being discouraged from buying suitable older horses. However, ethically, regardless of whether you've owned a horse for one month or ten years, regardless of whether they've helped you achieve your dreams or whether you've done almost nothing together, every horse is equally deserving of a comfortable retirement where nothing is expected of them. No animals needs to 'earn' a retirement through working for humans.

I agree. Sadly the bloke at work says I'm mental to pay for retirement for a horse I can't ride and I think this is a lot of people's attitudes that are non horsey.
But I would go to the ends of the earth rather than pts a horse I can't ride. Whether that would be as a companion, whether it would be as a 'light hack' or whether that is the blood bank. I would look at each and every option for my best friend.

 

[Nudibranch]

As a Dales owner so I'm biased but...how old is your Dales, and have you investigated why he/she is "lazy"? Fair enough if they're getting on or whatever, but if not, would it be worthwhile project doing some reschooling? Mine could be classed as lazy very easily but she actually has a muscle myopathy and when her management isn't exactly right she defaults back to being flat. I've been in contact with a few Dales people lately, all with myopathy issues and there's now a movement to try and get the breed society to take it seriously.

Fwiw, when my Dales is right, she rides as big as my old 17.3. She's 15.1 to be fair, but they can be plenty of horse in a small package.