Do I have the WORST liveries in britain??

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I've had enough of this post now........................ I just wanted a bit of back up about the two "problem liveries"! Thanks anyway

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Sorry, didn't realise you only wanted people to agree with you. I mistook this for a discussion.
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Listen to Shilasdair - the voice of wisdom amidst the madness. I don't always agree with her/him but they've got their head screwed on right and offer advice based on common sense and bitter experince.
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Listen to Shilasdair - the voice of wisdom amidst the madness. I don't always agree with her/him but they've got their head screwed on right and offer advice based on common sense and bitter experince.
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* chokes *

It was going so well until I got to 'her/him' and 'bitter'
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Do you ad profit on the feed costs?? I cant see any other reason why a YO would provide feeds? - other than to be nice and for owners to have ease of not having to lug bags about or arrange deliveries?

I have only once kept a horse on full livery where they bought food and it stacked up in price and was much easier to buy my own, but YO gotta make a living somehow!
 
Of course I don't expect everyone to agree with me, thats life people will and people won't!! I take it you agree with over feeding and under exercising, and waiting to see what happens?

I originally posted to just let off a bit of steam after a horrible week! I didn't expect to be bombarded with questions about which feed I stock, How much I make bla bla! Some of you have taken this the wrong way!
 
The full livery my horse is on includes whatever feed and supplements the YO and I agree that my horse should have - including expensive things like Outshine etc.

The YO and I discuss his feed regime - regularly - and I do feel she should have some say in what he is fed, as she and her staff have to handle him and train him, so if he is getting too much 'heating' feed they have to cope with the consequences!

I also trust and respect her judgement - she is a BHSI, and much more experienced than I am. So although in the end it is my decision, I think I would be foolish to ignore her advice. Despite her greater experience/expertise, she never talks down to me - it's a discussion, not her dictating to me.

But this requires mutual trust and respect, which sadly does not seem to be the case with the OP's liveries.
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Of course I don't expect everyone to agree with me, thats life people will and people won't!! I take it you agree with over feeding and under exercising, and waiting to see what happens?


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I am astonished that, despite your highly developed, tactful and objective communication skills, your liveries chose to ignore you...to buy their own feed (so as not to dent your all important profit margin) and not to listen to your advice.
I'm sure they'd be even more impressed if they knew you were b****ing about them on a public forum.
Not very professional, in my opinion.
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Rochelle, for what it is worth I don't think you have the WORST liveries in Britain, but perhaps some fairly inexperienced owners?

From reading this thread you are in a Catch 22 situation - if you do nothing and as you say the ponies get laminitis or behavioural issues you are damned and if you try to say anything then you are also damned for being - shock horror - a caring YO trying to advise.

With regards to late payment I echo what others have said and would ask for payment in advance. If it helps, at our yard everyone pays monthly in advance. We are all grown up's and pay on time by cheque or cash. But could pay by DD or SO if we wanted to. The livery saying that you could go to her place of work to collect the money is taking the pee, and I would have her either on SO or out of the yard pronto.
 
At our yard, we buy our own feed, that way we can feed what we want, increasing and decreasing the amount as required. Hay and straw is included in the livery cost. I pay my livery by cheque monthly. This is in agreement with the owners. However, after the new year, I intend to set up a standing order, as I don't always see the owner to give her the cheque and sometimes it can be a few weeks, as I am up in the evenings and she isn't always around.

At my last yard, again we bought our own feed. Livery was paid either weekly or monthly, whichever suited. The only problem was that there wasn't always someone home when I went to pay it, so I set up a standing order and didn't have to worry that it hadn't been paid for a few weeks.

You should make them all pay by SO to save any hassle. Also saves you having to go to the bank every week.
 
Wow you are coming at me from every direction possible aren't you?!

I am not b**ching about them I am stating a fact :- These people are over feeding their horses (fair enough, there problem at the end of the day).

I posted this not for advice on the best way to take payments from my clients and not even for advice on how to talk to them about choosing a diet for their horses, I wanted a bit of a "rant" about some inexperienced people who think they know best! I am no way an expert on feeding but I do know the basic rules of feeding. Yes I am qualified and have done this job for years! Sometimes its good to get some feedback on a problem you are having from someone who is nothing to do with the situation!

As for posting on a forum, if said people saw it and approached me I would happily explain the same to them. I haven't posted names, pictures etc etc. Im sure they have done their fair share of b**tchy comments to their fellow liveries and friends about me/my yard - That is life!
 
I think its best to only be paid by Direct Debit at least 1 month in advance . also dont do DIY livery, only assisted or full.
Years ago when I rented from a farmer I had to pay ONE YEAR in advance , that is one whole years rent, as he was fed up with people not paying him.
Maybe introducing a returnable bond is a good thing, like people who rent out property do, at least you'd have something to draw on then.
 
The food issue is another matter. I would explain to them why they dont need extra feed then tell them they will be asked to leave if they give their horses extra feed in addition to what they are laready getting. Just say as a responsable yard owner you wont tolerate laminitis or colic due to this behaviour on your yard and that they are being cruel, not kind. if they persist then chuck them off the yard.
 
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No they shouldnt be taking your feed without asking at all, you will end up seriopusly out of pocket!...... BUT I would say you dont really have any right to say these ponies are being overfed etc on the grounds that they arent yours, of course you are entitled to your opinion, but I agree with Shilasdair, I couldnt keep my horse on a yard where someone else told me how to feed etc etc

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Thankfully, I only take schooling liveries - or brood mares coming in for covering - but I would suggest that if the LYO is providing 'care' as opposed to d.i.y. then she has EVERY right to point out to owners if horses are being overfed - because it's her stable walls that will be kicked in - and her staff who will be stomped on if some overly-stuffed and under-worked horse starts acting up! Obviously it should be a 'discussion and advice' situation to start with but - remember - the LYO 'has care and control' of the horses - except on d.i.y. - and could be liable for damage they do - or for harm that befalls a horse (laminitis etc.) And these owners are ADDING feed - but you can be damn sure they'll blame the LYO when it all goes pear-shaped!
 
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Wow you are coming at me from every direction possible aren't you?!
<font color="blue"> No, actually, I'm not. </font>
I am not b**ching about them I am stating a fact :- These people are over feeding their horses (fair enough, there problem at the end of the day).
<font color="blue"> You asked what I would do...I told you (politely) and then you say I believe in overfeeding and underexercising
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I don't think you bothered to read my post at all before being unpleasant again </font>

I posted this not for advice on the best way to take payments from my clients and not even for advice on how to talk to them about choosing a diet for their horses, I wanted a bit of a "rant" about some inexperienced people who think they know best! I am no way an expert on feeding but I do know the basic rules of feeding. Yes I am qualified and have done this job for years! Sometimes its good to get some feedback on a problem you are having from someone who is nothing to do with the situation!
<font color="blue"> We gave you feedback...but you just got annoyed....so perhaps you should pose your questions in a more leading fashion so everyone can give you the answer you're wanting specifically, rather than discuss things generally </font>
As for posting on a forum, if said people saw it and approached me I would happily explain the same to them. I haven't posted names, pictures etc etc. Im sure they have done their fair share of b**tchy comments to their fellow liveries and friends about me/my yard - That is life!

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<font color="blue"> Personally, I would rather approach people directly than talk about them without their knowledge. But everyone is different. Not every livery b****es about their YO on a public forum...you don't see me mentioning my fellow liveries or YO...if I had a problem I would go to her/them directly
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<font color="blue"> I am sorry you have taken my posts as a personal attack...they weren't meant that way at all...you misread them initially and then didn't read the last few, I suspect.
I hope you get things sorted out with your livery clients so that you (and they) are less stressed.
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Sounds to me like the liveries want to give their horses a feed as in a roundabout way they think the horses will love them more....??

So why not feed the horses a little less breakfast on the weekends or whatever days these people ride (if you know that in advance) and leave the rest of the feed for them to give to the horses when they get back?


The owner of a previous field of mine used to make such a fuss that I hardly gave my Shetland any winter feed. I mean he didn't need any really. He ate his head off all day anyway.

So I bought a sack of 'no nuts' (high fibre nuts) and some unmolassed chaff and then she didn't moan. It really annoyed me being bleated at by someone who knew nothing about horses, but she wouldn't let it rest, so I guess this is a similar situation for you but the other way round??
 
We have the same problems here in Canada.
I only have two liveries but still have headaches with them.
One is a 13 yr old girl whos father used to have horses a long time ago and likes to undermine my authority at every oportunity.
She will call me from the barn on her cell phone because she can't always catch her horse and get him out of the field with the other (only 2) horses around.
When I went down to help out I found that she had put his headcolllar on and was trying to get him out of the field with no lead rein!
I had already told her that she must used a lead rein and explained the dangers of not doing so, but all she said is "my dad says its ok"
anyway the next time she called me to help I said I was busy in the house and wouldn't be at the barn for a couple of hours and she should call her dad.
She did and he didn't look too happy after having to drive back to my yard to get the horse in.
 
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Crumbs, I am pretty lucky with my liveries by all accounts.....or maybe they are lucky with me because not a whole load bothers me about what my people get up to.

All of the horses who board at my yard are here on a full-care basis. This means I feed all of the horses and tend to all of their needs every day.

When their owners come up to ride or fuss their horses, I'd say easily more than half of them will go and give their horses extra feed (my feed if I used your words Rochelle - however I don't see it as MY feed, I see it as the horses feed available for anyone to use). Some of them bring carrots and apples or other such treats. And? And nothing, I don't care if they want to feed them a little extra so long as the horses are healthy and not buzzing off the walls. If the extra feed were to cause a problem for the horses then I'd likely suggest that if they are coming up to feed the horse, then I would feed less. It's certainly not my place to say whether they can or cannot feed their own horses.

If you know these ponies are only ridden on the weekend, I can't see what the big deal is to just give the ponies a smaller amount when you feed and then leave the larger portion of the feed in buckets for the owners to feed when they are finished riding? Sorry but it all seems so simple to me and I can't see why they shouldn't be allowed to give their ponies feed; people enjoy feeding their pets, and why shouldn't they? As a, presumably, competent yard owner, surely this is not a difficult situation for you to find an amiable and workable solution to?

As for the late paying customer; I'm guessing that she does pay in advance as this is normal practice. Well you either get used to this, you tell her she must pay on time by cash/SO/DD/post-dated cheques, or you ask her to leave if she annoys you so much.

How many liveries do you have? And are the rest knowledgeable people who listen to your advice?
 
I have read your replies and to me they were b**tchy and rude!

I didn't come on here for advice it was more a "Oh god look what they have done this time". A chance for me to let it out!

I did speak to the liveries in question at the weekend before it was ever mentioned on here, so yes I am forthright like you said you would be in my situation!

I didn't get annoyed or stressed as you like to put it, I was narked that I was getting quizzed on what I feed? What feed I stock? How much pofit I make? What the hell is that to do with any of you that were asking??

When I replied to you with dignified responses you tried again to find a way to rattle me, with stupid irrelevant questions! Keep em coming Shilasdair - I'll have an answer for them all!!

I would gladly invite any of you to come and work with me for a week to show you how hard this job is, and how I try to provide a professional yet friendly yard. Upon meeting me you would soon realise I am not an interfering YO who hands out my opinion to everybody whether they wanted it or not! I do my job and leave them to it, they know where I am if they need me and they know their horses will never go without!
 
My problem is they are taking extra feed for their ponies ie, ponys nuts, chop, sugar beet! A complete feed! They are only paying me for two feeds a day. Yes I am looking at this through a business view and I am looking at this with a view that their ponies are going to be over weight, excitible, difficult to manage, which god forbid will lead to an accident. I don't believe these ponies need 3 feeds a day, I don't even think they need two feeds but thats my opinion. They are not working enough to warrant that much hard feed. I would, if asked advise feeding more hay/haylage!

I don't have a problem with them giving their ponies a bucket of carrots or pony treats, but to give a full blown feed as a "Thankyou treat" after a hack at the weekend is totally stupid IN MY EYES!!!
 
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I have read your replies and to me they were b**tchy and rude!
<font color="blue"> Well, not everyone has your gift for tact, diplomacy and communication (as evidenced by your relations with your paying clients </font>
I didn't come on here for advice it was more a "Oh god look what they have done this time". A chance for me to let it out!

I did speak to the liveries in question at the weekend before it was ever mentioned on here, so yes I am forthright like you said you would be in my situation!
<font color="blue"> And yet still felt the need to whinge about them publically? Nice. </font>
I didn't get annoyed or stressed as you like to put it, I was narked that I was getting quizzed on what I feed? What feed I stock? How much pofit I make? What the hell is that to do with any of you that were asking??
<font color="blue">I didn't ask you any of these questions....and again you seem a little 'stressed' to me. Again, I don't think you have actually managed to read and comprehend any of the posts as you seem very confused. </font>

When I replied to you with dignified responses you tried again to find a way to rattle me, with stupid irrelevant questions! Keep em coming Shilasdair - I'll have an answer for them all!!
<font color="blue">That's great...except I don't know you, have no interest in whether you're 'rattled' or not, and I haven't asked you any questions. I think you should perhaps have a chat to someone about how you feel...before you become ill as these seem to be some of the signs of stress. Seriously.
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I would gladly invite any of you to come and work with me for a week to show you how hard this job is, and how I try to provide a professional yet friendly yard. Upon meeting me you would soon realise I am not an interfering YO who hands out my opinion to everybody whether they wanted it or not! I do my job and leave them to it, they know where I am if they need me and they know their horses will never go without!

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<font color="blue"> Upon meeting you? If this post is anything to go by, no thanks. </font>
<font color="blue"> And now, because I come on this forum to chat, discuss things, and have fun, not to be b****ed at by stressy YO's about the clients they hate...I'm going to send you to the bottleneck dungeon of 'Ignore-this-User. I suggest you do the same for me...thanks
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Did I ever say I hated them? You have made this post rather OTT!! Haha I cannot believe you seem to think I am a stressy YO!, far from it! Your comments have made me stressy though, who the hell do you think you are Miss HHO?! (I take it you are a "Miss" as no male could ever be this b*tchy). 99% of the time its a great job, of course it is not going to be fun fun fun every day! Whos job is?

p.s If you re - read my OP you will see it does actually say "rant over hehe" or words to that effect, at the end! It wasn't meant to be a slanging match!

Thank god for ignore user eh? I will not be putting you on ignore though as I am a grown up and able to have adult conversations without letting forum users get to me!!
 
What Christiamas has said makes great sense, I think. Just feed the ponies less on the days their owners come - that way, even if their owners are giving them a full feed rather than just some treats, they won't end up overfed.

Your concerns about over-feeding are legitimate, I think, as this can have serious health and management consequences, which you as the YO would have to deal with. But Tia's suggestion is a simple and effective way of solving the problem - without any arguments or bad feeling between you and the clients.

If your main aim is to protect the ponies from the dangers of over-feeding, then this seems to be the obvious solution.

Yes, it does mean you will have to swallow your pride a bit, and just accept that these clients don't trust your judgement or respect your authority. But surely that's a small price to pay for happy healthy ponies, happy clients and a good atmosphere on the yard?
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I am sorry that I took an interest in what you actually feed and asked questions about this, however my reasoning was more for the point of explaining that most people running full livery supply one type of feed which would not suit my horse, let alone other peoples views of being told what to feed, even though this was apparently not the case.... but we only got to discover that, from asking questions!!!
 
Sorry, you misunderstand me; I am not suggesting the ponies have 3 feeds a day, I'm merely saying split the two feeds into 3 or 4, whatever suits the owners. The ponies won't be being fed any more actual feed, it will be the same amount but just staggered over the course of the weekend.

By the sounds of things, the ponies probably don't need any hard feed but that is something you need to discuss with the owners. To be frank, none of the horses here at my yard need any hard feed; they are on the best quality hay around and this gives them pretty much all of the nutrients necessary, however I do feed them all a little bit just to give them a boost throughout the coldness of our winters here in Canada.
 
Rochelle, I am right behind you. I just would notputup with people endangering their horses health on my yard. I had a problem , some years ago now, a DIY livery was feeding her 2 yr old warmblood 2slices of hay at night then complaining he was eating his bed .I found her chucking disinfectant on the straw to stop him eating it.
I pointed out that although he was turned out all day there was actually not a lot of grass in the winter.
he was brought in at 4pm and had eaten up by 9pm . turned out at 8am so nothing to eat for 11 hours .
Unbelievably this girl has her BHS stage 3.
eventually i resorted to chucking him more hay at 9pm very night and just adding it to the bill at the end of the month.
Rochelle , stick to your guns. you are 100% right. its your yard and you do have responsibility to see the animals on it are correctly kept.
 
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