Do I need a flipping trailer licence?!

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diablo

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I recently read in a magazine that came with 'horse' i think that you can tow a trailer if you passed your after 1997 as long as the unladen weight of the trailer does not exceed the weight of the car towing.
My delightful ex- boyfriend is a farmer and used to tow a lot of sheeps various places and not on a licence.

Im 21, passed my test 2007 have a l200 kerb weight 1875kg and looking to get a 511. (1000kg) to tow my 15.3hh to shows(approx 550kg) can i do this or do i need my towing licence

I agree i would be much safer with my licence but until i get round to that can i tow?
 
Its very confusing im not very good at explaining it but somebody did to me and basicly on your license no you wouldnt be able to tow a horse. Believe me ive looked into it a 100 times as i would only need to tow my daughters 11.2. Im sure somebody on here would be able to explain how it works. Very fustrating for me as i only passed my test 3 months after the rules changed!!!
 
I passed in 1999 and I had to take a test.

Its all to do with the MAM (maximum authorised mass) of the car + trailer together.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022564

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073

I believe as the MAM of the car + the MAM of the trailer will exceed 3.5 tonnes you will need to take the towing test.

Although you will only actually be towing under 3.5 tonnes, the MAM of both together is more than 3.5 tonnes
 
yes you do.

the MAM of your trailer is over 750kgs and the combined weight of the trailer and car combo is over 3.5 tonnes.
 
I understood it that you would have to satisfy all 3 of the above to be able to tow without the enhanced license.

- mam vehicle and trailer under 3.5t
-mam trailer under 750kg
-trailer must not outweigh vehicle
 
(Just do the test its not that painful!!! It took me 3 goes at the normal driving test and passed trailer test 3times!!!!)
 
I was just about to post something similar to this.
We were at a local service station and there was, as normal, a police car parked ready to go out if needed. Dad got chatting to them whilst waiting for me and mum (discussing land rovers :rolleyes:) and asked this as I want to know. They said they didnt know as they couldnt make out the rules as they are so complicated but they thought not as there is a size limit of some sort on the trailer. So no I wouldnt risk it.
 
Yes you do. To be honest the test is not that difficult and i personally wouldn't be happy to tow without taking the test even if i had passed my test pre 97.
 
burness_21 said:
Yes you do. To be honest the test is not that difficult and i personally wouldn't be happy to tow without taking the test even if i had passed my test pre 97.
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Its not worth taking any risks as insurance companies will soon wriggle out of liablity if you dont cross all p's and q's, eg I have steel tyres on my van even though I don't carry any weight, its all about the max potential weight I could carry.
As a professional, your ex=bf should probably hold the Certificate of Competance:


Certificate of Competence in the Transport of Animals by Road

13th April 2007
From 5 January 2008, transporters or attendants using road vehicles for transporting farm animals, poultry or horses over 65km in connection with an economic activity must have received appropriate training. They must also hold a certificate of competence issued by an independent body nominated by the competent authority. NPTC is one of three nominated bodies and has developed two brand new qualifications to meet the requirements of the legislation.

Certificate of Competence in the Transport of Animals by Road (Short Journeys)
This is for anyone transporting animals as an economic activity on journey’s over 65km in distance and up to 8 hours in duration.

Certificate of Competence in the Long Distance Transport of Animals by Road
This is for anyone transporting animals as part of an economic activity on journeys over 8 hours in duration.

Again, insurance requirements
 
Right so I've got a navara 2 tonne, and a 1 tonne trailer. Totally 3 tonne. So could I tow as long as the horse/pony weighs under 500kg keeping the MAM 3.5tonne?

I currently tow with my mum as passenger with L plates. Plan on doing my test within the next 6 months, but would be nice to take my daughter and her pony to local shows without having to take my mum!:)
 
This is the reason there are so many 'small' lorries on the road, where they have been converted from van's etc, the small equitrek lorry is a 3.5tonne which means that you can drive that without sitting a test, which is also probably why they are so expensive.
There are a lot of companies now that do a full week course and then you sit your test at the end of the week.
 
diablo said:
I recently read in a magazine that came with 'horse' i think that you can tow a trailer if you passed your after 1997 as long as the unladen weight of the trailer does not exceed the weight of the car towing.

I agree i would be much safer with my licence but until i get round to that can i tow?
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I am pretty sure the weight trailed has to be 85% or less of the vehicle, otherwise it might overtake you downhill, also make sure there is a wire safety link in case the tow bar and the trailer become detached.
The vehicle manufacturers spec will tell you how much weight you can tow with their vehicle, not the legal requirements.
Basically you want a big strong vehicle for towing.
 
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Horses24-7 said:
Right so I've got a navara 2 tonne, and a 1 tonne trailer. Totally 3 tonne. So could I tow as long as the horse/pony weighs under 500kg keeping the MAM 3.5tonne?

I currently tow with my mum as passenger with L plates. Plan on doing my test within the next 6 months, but would be nice to take my daughter and her pony to local shows without having to take my mum!:)
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You would need to check your licence categories, category B allows Motor vehicles with a MAM of up to 3,500 kg, no more than eight passenger seats, with or without a trailer - weighing no more than 750 kg
17*

B
As category B but with a trailer weighing more than 750 kg. The total weight of the vehicle and the trailer together can’t weigh more than 3,500 kg. The weight of the trailer, when fully loaded, can’t weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle

The term maximum authorised mass (MAM) means the total weight of the vehicle plus the maximum load it can carry safely.

Haven't found anyone that passed the test after January 1997 that can tow a horse trailer without sitting another test.
 
tbh there's a lot of confusion surrounding this - with even the authorities aruging - so i'd just take the test - at least then you are guarenteed to be ok :)
i passed it so it really isn't hard LOL!
 
Horses24-7 said:
Right so I've got a navara 2 tonne, and a 1 tonne trailer. Totally 3 tonne. So could I tow as long as the horse/pony weighs under 500kg keeping the MAM 3.5tonne?
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NO! It is the plated MAM of the trailer that is used in the 3.5t max calculation if towing on cat B licence, not the actual weight with pony. So unless your trailer is rated at MAM of 1500kg which would be pretty useless they you will be illegal.
 
JunoXV said:
NO! It is the plated MAM of the trailer that is used in the 3.5t max calculation if towing on cat B licence, not the actual weight with pony. So unless your trailer is rated at MAM of 1500kg which would be pretty useless they you will be illegal.
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Just typed a similar reply and noticed this one, I agree the MAM is the weight of the vehicle + the weight it can safely tow, not the weight it is towing.
 
Thanks for your help it makes sense when you say it like that! So the mam is the maximum the trailer could be fully loaded to it's capacity and it makes no difference if the trailer is empty and only weighs the 1 tonne
 
Ok this is a worthwhile post - so many people are misguided by this and the rules are so convoluted it's stupid - they're just waiting for us to trip up!

Basically if you passed your test after 1st January 1997 you may only tow a trailer on your standard license IF...

... the maximum permissable weight (fully laden - as mentioned on your plate) of the trailer PLUS the unladen weight of your towing vehicle are UNDER 3.5 tonnes, AND, the maximum permissable weight of the trailer doesn't exceed the listed towing capacity of your vehicle, AND, the trailer's gross weight doesn't exceed 750kg...

make sense?! Basically I don't think there is any way you can get away with towing a horsebox on a car license taken after 1st Jan 1997.

Here comes the only catch/slightly helpful gap in the regulations that we can rely on if stuck...

Anything outside of these rules requires a trailer license OR a passenger with a trailer license OR a driving test passed PRIOR to 1st January 1997. (So basically girls - take your Grandma with you to shows and you're fine!!!!)
 
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Lowen Ki said:
Anything outside of these rules requires a trailer license OR a passenger with a trailer license OR a driving test passed PRIOR to 1st January 1997. (So basically girls - take your Grandma with you to shows and you're fine!!!!)
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But make sure your Grandma has passed her test and the license is still valid :D Mine never drove, so she'd not be much use in this instance :)
 
Yes - was assuming all Grandma's would have taken their driving tests prior to 1st Jan 1997... in which case they are exempt from the silly rules and are legally able to tow anything! I'm pretty sure their license would have to still be valid for you to get away with this - I usually take my Dad or my Grandma :)
 
Ummm not all of us who passed our tests pre 1997 are Grandmas :eek::D

I'm a pre 1997 and I will still take the test or a mock of it as I've already got the relevant things on my license.

As the others have suggested, dot the i's cross the t's as insurance companies will wriggle out if possible.

Edited to add: and more importantly be safe towing! In my view, EVERYONE who tow's should take some sort of competancy test.
 
I've posted this link before, it's to an excel file I created that will tell you in you do or don't need the B+E.
http://www.fileswap.com/dl/tXxwMTsB/Trailer_Towing_Calculator.xlsx.html


For clarification, when you are being supervised on a B+E provisional with L plates, YOU ARE still premitted to use the motorway. And search the forum for my thread on B+E Supervising, about who can supervise you.
 
''Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM''

This was taken from the Direct.gove website.

I tow a trailer, I don't have a B+E license, I passed in 2002....

I tow a single Ifor Williams (401) with a Freelander. This meets all the above criteria and I am 100% legal...

Freelander unladen weight = 1640kg
MAM of freelander = 2060kg
MAM of trailer = 1400kg

Trailer + freelander MAM = 3460kg = <3500kg
Unladen weight of freelander = 1640 > 1400 MAM of trailer

I don't think this 'loophole' applies to most car and trailer combinations, e.g. there is no way you could tow a double trailer and you could not be able to go any bigger than a freelander....

Hope this helps a bit!!
 
This is such a minefield... BUT I have had my licence downgraded due to my MS and no longer have my B+E entitlement, and yes I tow a double trailer with a Mondeo, on my own with a pony on board - shock horror!!!

Mondeo

Kerbweight = 1485kg
Towing capacity = 1800kg
Trailer (Fautras) = 920kg unladen with all extras (original MAM = 2000kg)
Pony = 365kg (weighed on a weigh bridge)

The trailer has been 'down plated' by sticking a new plate over the top of the orginal showing a MAM of 1400kg... no modifications needed to be done.

Therefore I towing a load that is 71% of my vehicle's towing capacity and 92% of the kerbweight of the car (still legal)... when my laden car was weighed it was 1774kg, total load 3,059kg (load 72% of the vehicle) and all legal :)
 
As the last two posters have said, you can...I have an email somewhere from the driver licensing people confirming this. I took my test in the end, but it is possible if you do some very careful juggling.

The 80% rule is a guideline by the caravan club, there is no legal requirement for a trailers MAM to not exceed 80% of the vehicles towing capacity.
 
And a word of warning before you start sticking on the L plates and taking an older person as a passenger - there are no longer 'grandfather rights' on sitting in with a learner for trailers. The person accompanying you must have passed the new style trailer test. I passed my test in 2001 so can only drive a small horsebox - although bizarrely a tractor and trailer is deemed ok for me to drive on the road! LOL, but not a laden horse trailer. And since I do drive tractors a lot I can reverse a damn sight better than most of the 'ladies' with their little 4x4's (only enough to tow one horse) at the livery yard.
 
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