Do I need a flipping trailer licence?!

while we are on the subject of licences.....

I have driven a 7.5 lorry for years before I got the 4x4 and trailer instead. Someone told me from 2014 ALL people will have to take a test to drive a 7.5 ton....they can't just alter your licence like that, surely?? I understand changes to new drivers, but will be pretty pissed if someone has decided I can't drive one anymore....just because they feel like it! I'm also thinking of getting a new lorry, and this will scupper all my plans...

GRRRR.....
 
Yep, there is a loophole for smaller horses and lighter, downgraded trailers

DVLA say:

B license;
with a trailer weighing more than 750 kg. The total weight of the vehicle and the trailer together can’t weigh more than 3,500 kg. The weight of the trailer, when fully loaded, can’t weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle
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and even give this as premissable example

Example of category B with a trailer weighing over 750 kg: Motor vehicle with an unladen weight of 1,500 kg and a maximum weight of 2,000 kg towing a fully loaded trailer with a weight of 1,500 kg – total weight 3500
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So yes, with a smallish car and a smallish trailer with a smallish horse you could drive within your license without a trailer test.

However VOSA rules also apply: they state you can't tow more than your cars MAM, and the official weight of the trialer is it's gross laden weight (it maximum fully loaded weight) NOT it's actual semi-filled weight. So in theory they will take the weight of a double horse Ifor as 2800kg, regardless of it being empty. Although to be honest no-one really seems to know how it would work out in pracitse, but the likelyhood, in the case of a problem, they will take one look at the high MAM of the trailer and drag you off to a weight bridge.

It does mean that you would need a big enough car to full the trailers full theoretical weight, which would take you well over the 3.5t you license allows.

The way to get round that is have your trailer downgraded (plated with a lower MAM) to something the car can still pull and give you enought room for one horse.

Someone made a very good point about insurance: they will wriggle out of anything if they think they can get away with it and will quite possible argue your license and your cars/trailer MAM should there be an accident.

As for your exact example (large car and a very large trailer) you won't get away with it. You're so close to the limit that you can take anything else (inc passengers or tack) an with that size of outfit you're very likely to get picked up for not having a suitable license.
 
Laafet said:
And a word of warning before you start sticking on the L plates and taking an older person as a passenger - there are no longer 'grandfather rights' on sitting in with a learner for trailers. The person accompanying you must have passed the new style trailer test.QUOTE]

The loss of 'grandfather rights' only applies to vehicles over 3.5t, not to trailers. As someone with a pre '97 licence I can still sit next to someone driving a trailer but not a 7.5t lorry.
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This thread is fascinating!! I had heard this was the case but wasn't a believer!

It's frustrating...I know how to drive a trailer (and HGVs...) but because I don't have a comparable license in terms of UK catagories... I can't drive either :(
Even though I have to sit in the front of my mum's lorry and talk her through driving it!!!!!!!

However, if I can drive a LW trailer on a middleweight ute... tempting!
 
The loss of 'grandfather rights' only applies to vehicles over 3.5t, not to trailers. As someone with a pre '97 licence I can still sit next to someone driving a trailer but not a 7.5t lorry


I'm not certain the bit about trailers is true - this seems to say that grandfather rights for trailers are no longer valid

The rules for holders of pre 1997 issued licences who supervise learner drivers in category C1 (lorries between 3.5 and 7.5 tons), D1 (passenger vehicles for nine to sixteen people) and vehicle plus trailer combinations will be changing on the 6th of April of this year. Full section here http://www.horseandcountry.tv/news/2010/02/11/grandfather-rights-end-april

If as people are saying here that a trailer/car combo big enough to tow a horse is generally overf 3.5t, then surely it falls in the 3.5 to 7t category?
 
Laafet said:
And a word of warning before you start sticking on the L plates and taking an older person as a passenger - there are no longer 'grandfather rights' on sitting in with a learner for trailers. The person accompanying you must have passed the new style trailer test. I passed my test in 2001 so can only drive a small horsebox - although bizarrely a tractor and trailer is deemed ok for me to drive on the road! LOL, but not a laden horse trailer. And since I do drive tractors a lot I can reverse a damn sight better than most of the 'ladies' with their little 4x4's (only enough to tow one horse) at the livery yard.
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This is incorrect - you may not supervise a learner taking a C or C+E (heavy goods) But no problem at all supervising B+E (trailer).
 
Just to add it is possible- with a Volvo V40 and a Bateson with a MAM of only 1600 the volvo being 1800kg and the trailer's unlaiden weight being only 640kg meets all three of the criteria. I think that Robinson's trailers are even lighter with an even smaller carrying capacity of 1500kg.

It is possible but not easy
 
Just sit the test!!! Why run around trying to find loopholes when the insurance companies will do anything to avoid paying out if you are involved in an accident.
I hold a class one hgv(lgv as it is now) i was out with the caravan the other day on our ford ranger.. to be honest the whole outfit is longer than a coach..it seems to me that its outragous to drive this combination without any training.
pass the test... spend ages fine tuning your reversing skills then show off for ever more at every opertunity!
 
luckyoldme said:
Just sit the test!!! Why run around trying to find loopholes when the insurance companies will do anything to avoid paying out if you are involved in an accident.
I hold a class one hgv(lgv as it is now) i was out with the caravan the other day on our ford ranger.. to be honest the whole outfit is longer than a coach..it seems to me that its outragous to drive this combination without any training.
pass the test... spend ages fine tuning your reversing skills then show off for ever more at every opertunity!
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I would love to but DVLA will not confirm that the B+E entitlement will stay on my licence when it gets renewed every 3 years :(
I used to have a 9.5t lorry and also drive a 7.5t lorry whilst working on a Polo yard plus towed trailers for a very long time - if I knew my entitlement would stay I would sit the test but since I am classed as being disabled that goes against me (and yet to myself and my friends I am the same as everyone else!)
 
MrsD123 said:
Its not worth taking any risks as insurance companies will soon wriggle out of liablity if you dont cross all p's and q's, eg I have steel tyres on my van even though I don't carry any weight, its all about the max potential weight I could carry.
As a professional, your ex=bf should probably hold the Certificate of Competance:


Certificate of Competence in the Transport of Animals by Road

13th April 2007
From 5 January 2008, transporters or attendants using road vehicles for transporting farm animals, poultry or horses over 65km in connection with an economic activity must have received appropriate training. They must also hold a certificate of competence issued by an independent body nominated by the competent authority. NPTC is one of three nominated bodies and has developed two brand new qualifications to meet the requirements of the legislation.

Certificate of Competence in the Transport of Animals by Road (Short Journeys)
This is for anyone transporting animals as an economic activity on journey’s over 65km in distance and up to 8 hours in duration.

Certificate of Competence in the Long Distance Transport of Animals by Road
This is for anyone transporting animals as part of an economic activity on journeys over 8 hours in duration.

Again, insurance requirements
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These certificates are not required for taking your horse to a show and you're travelling with it: http://www.nptc.org.uk/faq/detail.asp?dsid=198
1. SCOPE, APPLICATION AND EXEMPTIONS
Scope
1.1 The Regulation covers the transport of all live vertebrate animals (but excluding man) within the EU Community that takes place in connection with an economic activity. The vertebrate family includes all creatures which are mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians or fish.

1.2. Those involved in an economic activity will include farmers, livestock hauliers, those who move horses in connection with professional riding, livery, stabling, those involved in commercial pet breeding or racing (e.g. dog racing), or those moving animals used in films, zoos and leisure parks.

1.3 The Regulation does not apply to the transport of animals:


Where the transport is not in connection with an economic activity; or
Transport to or from veterinary practices or clinics under veterinary advice; or
When the animal is an individual animal, is accompanied by its owner or other responsible person and is fit for the intended journey; or
Where the animals are pet animals accompanied by their owner on a journey.”
 
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