Do I need to buy a warmblood to get a good dressage horse?

Prince33Sp4rkle

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completely agree TS and sometimes, when a horse suffers a repetitive strain type injury (tendons, ligaments etc), it was almost inevitable because the type of the horse and the job it was being pushed for were SO at odds.
Particularly relevant with the bigger, heavier cobby type breeds being asked to really sit and collect, or something very long and naturally weak being pushed in the same way.

or, as NMT sometimes scream at the computer-stop trying to make your bus in to a rally car!

bear in mind as well, that if you buy super huge movement, you have to be able to sit it, and influence it in the RIGHT way. someone without the balance and core strength to hold a huge mover on their seat ends up with a head nodding bridle lame trot and a lateral canter as they hang off their hands or half halt in the wrong moment. (no reflection on OP by the way, just something i see fairly often in general)
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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I am going back to first principles here, foals need other youngstock to grow up with, they take years and £££££, then you have to back them, more £££££, and so it goes on, in four years time your life may not be as it is planned ......... unless you can buy a few youngsters and have very low upkeep costs for them I would forget the whole idea. Buy something when you need it.
 

Baggybreeches

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completely agree TS and sometimes, when a horse suffers a repetitive strain type injury (tendons, ligaments etc), it was almost inevitable because the type of the horse and the job it was being pushed for were SO at odds.
Particularly relevant with the bigger, heavier cobby type breeds being asked to really sit and collect, or something very long and naturally weak being pushed in the same way.

or, as NMT sometimes scream at the computer-stop trying to make your bus in to a rally car!

bear in mind as well, that if you buy super huge movement, you have to be able to sit it, and influence it in the RIGHT way. someone without the balance and core strength to hold a huge mover on their seat ends up with a head nodding bridle lame trot and a lateral canter as they hang off their hands or half halt in the wrong moment. (no reflection on OP by the way, just something i see fairly often in general)

*offers a virtual round of applause* I have nothing constructive to add that hasn't already been said but this statement made me smile :)
 

soloequestrian

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Gosh, some fairly judgemental posts in among that lot!
I'm interested in what people would do who are saying 'don't buy a foal'. I need a companion for my two geldings, having just recently lost my old mare. I don't want a riding horse, but will do in a few years time. I'm experienced and (I think) give horses a lovely, lifelong home. Everyone who actually knows me thinks buying a foal is a great idea. I just have no experience choosing youngstock (note, that is not the same thing as not having experience with horses generally), and am asking for help with that. Viable alternatives also considered.
I'm interested in the comments about big-moving horses though. I don't have the best back ever, and only ride as a hobby, but I am slim, fit and have good core strength. I've never had the opportunity to ride a really big moving warmblood, but my big TB is very bouncy and has given people quite a shock when they get on.... I've no idea how to judge my competency to ride a bigger moving horse!
 

Baggybreeches

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I am in two minds actually about the foal buying thing, it does kind of represent a false economy (by the time you've kept it and prevented it from killing itself you are likely to be way out of pocket) but if you want to buy from a particular line that you might not be able to afford when the stock are reaching working age then it makes sense. I think the thing with big moving horses is that inexperienced people get 'dazzled' by the show of them and don't realise how hard it is to ride a horse with a big movement, not just sitting to it, but actually 'holding it together' & being able to channel all the power in a constructive & expressive way.
 

soloequestrian

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Yes, I understand the implications, but I need a companion and don't want to get an older horse - having three in full work was just stressful! I quite like the idea of having a foal to play with too - I've spend most of my riding career sorting out horses that other people have mucked up and it would be nice to have something that either isn't mucked up, or is mucked up by me and I only have myself to blame!
I wonder where I could find someone willing to let me sit on their posh dressage horse.....
 

TarrSteps

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I'll be really honest, my biggest reservation about buying a foal/yearling as a companion is that, in my opinion, they need other young horses in order to develop optimally. I understand many people do not agree - mostly those with only foals - but having a considerable amount of experience with horses raised both ways, I have seen nothing to change my opinion.

But to each, their own. We don't live in a perfect world and sometimes choices need to be made. I just think people should make them considering all the aspects involved.
 

Firewell

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Gosh OP! I'm with you! If you want to buy a foal buy one!! It's your life :). I'm sure it will have a lovely home, and if it doesn't turn out quite right you can find it another lovely home.
My friend bought a foal to keep with her sisters gelding, the foal is now 5 years old beautifully brought up, happy and doing very well at her first shows.
With regards to the breed I'm sure a purpose bred dressage wb you would assume would find being a dressage horse in the future easier. Or you could buy something else out of nice parents, as long as the parents have nice temps, good confo and are uphill, sound, nice movement all that yadda then you should end up with something useful?! I would go with the sort of horse you normally like and click with. Wether that be TB with a dash of Irish or Wb or native x. Find one you get that good feeling about :).
 

Cortez

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I have only once ever reared an "only foal" (due to exigent circumstances; he and his mother were a rescue and he had other adult horses to live with), and will NEVER do so again. Always, especially with colts, rear at least two together; they need the play time.

If I was specifically aiming at dressage, and wanted to do as well as possible (which would seem to be the point of competing.....), then I would ditch my dearly beloved Spanish boys and buy a purpose bred, even-tempered warmblood.
 

Daytona

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I have I guess quite a "flashy WB" and can assure you it's not the easy option! They are bred to be sharp and sensitive as they need to be responsive as they go up the levels, but for an amateur that can be challenging. I have several friends who have had lovely well-bred WBs and sold them on because they couldn't handle them - none of them are novice riders or first-horse owners. Also, the bigger the movement the harder it is to ride. My boy moves pretty big and although I absolutely love it, it's bloody hard work to sit to, never mind actually ride! You need to be physically fit, strong and healthy to progress on a big mover. The reason I have mine is because his previous owner, a pro, had back problems and was no longer able to ride his movement. If you aren't riding several horses a day then riding a big mover is going to be considerably harder.

100% agree... I made this mistake.

I Bought a big flashy 4 year old WB
2 years later I've just sold him , I've wasted near £30,000 , and lost a nasty chunk outta by calf muscle.....

And I'm no beginner , 34 years old had my own horse since 4 years old, compete affiliated etc

But by god what a eye opener I've had. Some horses a should be left to the professionals.

And it's not that my horse was a bad lad or anything , quite the opposite he was a lovely horse, but just had a sensitive sharp side not suitable for most amateurs. He is now with a professional SJer and really shining like a star.
 

daffy44

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I primarily buy foals, as the bloodlines i like for dressage, i cant afford once they get past the age of a year. So i am very used to buying and producing foals, my most advanced one is almost ready to go out competing at GP. Personally, i would never keep a foal without a similar aged friend, i dont think its right for the foal to be kept solely with adult horses as company. Foals need foals to play with, fight with, grow up with, personally i dont expect the youngsters to only have adult company until they are 3yr olds at a minium. It is lovely to ride and produce a horse you have had since it was a foal, to be able know everything about your horses history, but i dont think its fair to the horse to bring it up in an unatural way just to achieve that. Sorry, OP, i dont want to be harsh, but i think when we make these decisions we need to think of things from the horses point of view as well as our own. I do wish you all the best with whatever you decide to do.
 

popsdosh

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Have to whole hardheartedly agree foals should always have company their own age you would not think of bringing up a child with only adult company would you! If buying from a stud you will be taking it away from an environment were it has mates of the same age.Can you not just buy a companion for the others you would get one a lot cheaper than a foal!If I end up with only one foal I go out and get another ,I buy any old cheap Cob foal as I know they are easy to sell when broken.
 

pootleperkin

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Just to say, many on here might think it isn't optimal, but both of my horses, now seven and 10 were bought as foals and kept with adult horses. Both are from competition WB bloodlines, couldn't be better behaved and are fantastic riding horses that compete successfully. I'm about to do the same again, and wouldn't expect this one to be any different. People regularly remark on how well behaved they are and how rideable they are. I'm not saying that this is the right way to do it, just that it is doable (in my own experience with very few problems) with a good outcome.
 
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Hollycatt

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If you are thinking of a warmblood foal, if you haven't already, it may also be wise to post on the breeding forum. Like any other breed or type of horse you get good and bad. There are plenty of mediocre warmbloods out there. Certain bloodlines are known to be hot - Jazz for example, others such as the R line are known to be very trainable, though not necessarily as flashy. For window shopping I like this site - http://www.fohlenboerse.de/en/list-of-foals.html Not that I don't support British breeding - just that there are loads of foals and videos so you can get an idea of what bloodlines, registry/breed and type you like - then you can be more selective when looking in the UK.
 

TarrSteps

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I'm not saying it's necessarily disastrous for foals to grow up with only adult horses - just like a kid raised with adults isn't going to be a serial killer - just that I have compared and, as I said, made my own judgement to go along with what I've been told by people far more experienced. Also, frankly, having watched groups of young horses, I would not want to deny a baby horse that experience.

It's not a moral judgement and no one is saying it to be 'mean', it's just an opinion. (And not, you can see, an uncommon one.)

Anyway, as I said, people do as they please and it's not necessarily going to end in disaster. The world is full of different opinions and if people are happy with their decisions and feel they are for the best, have at it.

One option that people commonly avail themselves of, is to purchase a foal and have it remain at the stud until it's ready to start work. I know one breeder (unfortunately not in the UK) who sells a 'package deal' from foal to 2. In reality quite a few stay until backing as they have a good program and it's cost effective. I guess it defeats the purpose of having a foal at home though.
 

TarrSteps

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Re trying horses, I'd be tempted to call around to local trainers, explain the situation and ask if they can offer you something to have a lesson on. Explain that you would rather not do this the way people usually do, by going to try horses for sale they have no intention of buying, and they might give you extra points for honesty!

I think it's a good point though! You don't want to spend ages and £££ producing a horse you don't actually like riding. I see this happen, btw, and it's awful because the owner is emotionally attached. To balance pp's experience, I currently ride a horse for someone who bought him young and now, for various reasons, can't deal with the grown up reality of him. He's not the first, he won't be the last. Of course there are lots of lovely stories but that doesn't make the not so lovely ones any less valid or common. Just go in with your eyes open, consider things from the horse's point of view a bit, and don't necessarily assume people recommending caution are just doing it to be mean.
 

foxy1

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I bought two foals at a time- one that has a very well bred sire out of a dam not so impressively bred but the line have bred successful amateur horses and pony club championship winners, and the other is very springy pingy bred from out and out jumping lines.
So one that I will be able to ride and one I won't :p
 

Oscar

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If you are adamant about getting a foal buy two, it will be better for it in the long term. Or advertise foal livery, there must be people in a similar situation to you, someone that wants a foal but doesn't have the time/ finances for 2, so you are helping each other out.

Or buy a foal, leave it with the stud and offer a home to a companion or grass livery etc.
 

tristar

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i would buy a young spanish horse, from the right lines, some lines are renowned for their trainability, they are also comfortable which may help your back, it would be a new experience for you, and you sound the sort of person ideal to bring on a baby horse, they are really bred for dressage and with the right trainer /rider can out perform any wb, but they need lots of time and to be ridden differently, more with the intelligence and sensitivity than the often seen too fast trot and heavy hand, i also like tb horses for dressage except they are not the easiest to settle and relax. anyway, good luck
 

surreygirl17

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So you want a companion that doesn't need to be ridden? But buying a foal is not necessarily a good idea because you can't guarantee its suitability and foals need other youngsters to grow up "normally".

Go to WHW/ILPH or horses4homes etc or even preloved and find yourself a lovely older horse/pony who maybe has arthritis or KS and can't be ridden. Either buy or get on loan and make some horse's last years happy. That way you also get to do something good. Maybe consider a native breed which lives on fresh air and doesn't need stabling or a rug. Then save up and buy yourself a 3/4/5 year old who you can tell has the potential to do what you need.
 

rachyblue

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If you are thinking of a warmblood foal, if you haven't already, it may also be wise to post on the breeding forum. Like any other breed or type of horse you get good and bad. There are plenty of mediocre warmbloods out there. Certain bloodlines are known to be hot - Jazz for example, others such as the R line are known to be very trainable, though not necessarily as flashy.

Someone needs to tell this to my R line terror!

On a serious note, I've done what you're suggesting (except mine has a buddy of a similar age) and I wouldn't do it again. He is beautiful and will be an amazing ride for the right rider, but that rider isn't me. I'm getting professional help in the spring to polish him enough for sale and then he's gone. He is 3 and I've had him since a yearling. He is great on the ground, but is just too much horse for me under saddle. I can't even call myself a novice and get away with blaming it on that. I have owned horses for over 20 years, but I bought myself a Ferrari when I should have stuck to my sensible saloon type......
 

Wundahorse

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Depending on the size you prefer,have you thought about a native.I have seen some lovely ones beating WB's at their own game and so much easier to keep and manage.My Section D does a lovely test and we recently got a 76.08 coming 2nd against some bigger horses.Some natives have lovely natural rhythm and action.
 
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