Do magnets work?

[JFTDWS]

Well, the magnets certainly imcrease the temp on the surface of mine, which I think has been shown in a study (must have been for my vet to admit it!)

Yes but so does putting a rug on - and increasing temperature isn't necessarily helpful (though it can be) - the studies show no increase in blood flow or pain relief etc. That doesn't necessarily rule out other effects though.

Regarding your vet's admission of it, sadly as I often bemoan here and in my professional life, vets are not scientists. Their endorsement of something doesn't necessarily mean it's scientifically plausible or proven, regardless of what they may intimate. Many common vets have little knowledge of basic science or the process of research and peer review etc.

FWIW, another poster makes a good point about not believing every peer reviewed article out there. It really is a question of reading the full paper, understanding the methods and looking at the quality of the data yourself...

 

[stencilface]

Oh no, my vet is HIGHLY cynical of it, referring to me as 'one of those neurotic owners' (and I didn't even tell him about the arnica I was spraying on my horses gums ) which is why I thought it interesting that even he conceded that they did affect surface temp.

I got frustrated when a very cynical colleague, completeky non horsey said my horse would be affected by the placebo effect by reading me, erm how exactly?! I don't think he can connect the new smelling rug with anything tbh, although what do I know?

But what do any of us know, there are more things in heaven and earth and all that. Apparently 35 years ago medical professionals KNEW that newborn babies did not feel pain, and as such completed surgery on them with no anaesthetic

Think of what you'll know tomorrow (to quote men in black) or in 10 years time

 

[JFTDWS]

Oh no, my vet is HIGHLY cynical of it, referring to me as 'one of those neurotic owners' (and I didn't even tell him about the arnica I was spraying on my horses gums ) which is why I thought it interesting that even he conceded that they did affect surface temp.

Yep, still makes him just a vet - just because he conceded they would affect surface temp (which as I say is a long way away from saying they're useful!) doesn't mean it's a published result. It just means your vet isn't a total idiot (because a magnetic rug would warm a horse etc).

I got frustrated when a very cynical colleague, completeky non horsey said my horse would be affected by the placebo effect by reading me, erm how exactly?! I don't think he can connect the new smelling rug with anything tbh, although what do I know?

The placebo effect does affect animals, albeit not in the traditional sense. No, not in the sense your colleague meant, but it's not the most ridiculous thing I've heard...

But what do any of us know, there are more things in heaven and earth and all that...

Think of what you'll know tomorrow (to quote men in black) or in 10 years time

True - though there's a difference between things we don't know - and haven't, or can't test (e.g. is there a god, does wrapping your horse in marshmallow cure arthritis etc) and things that have been tested and haven't been shown to be beneficial

(I presume nobody's tested marshmallow, anyway just illustrating a point )

 

[Marydoll]

I dont personally care what research/science says in this instance, i see results with my horses and thats good enough for me.

 

[stencilface]

Ah, so I see you haven't heard about the great marshmallow experiment I conducted from 2009 -2011?!

It was done under spiritual guidance from the great celestial teapot

I'm open to many things, there's plenty of people who put clay and all kinds of crap on their horses legs after xc, which is accepted practise. I can't help but think a good wash down and plenty of walking with turnout is just as beneficial - you know, the natural way a horse would recover after runnign away from a predator

 

[Nocturnal]

I'm pretty sceptical about magnets, but I can't deny that they stopped my TB's legs from filling when he was on box rest. Whether they do anything else - who knows!

 

[fburton]

I'm pretty sceptical about magnets, but I can't deny that they stopped my TB's legs from filling when he was on box rest.

How do you know the magnets stopped your horse's legs from filling?

 

[JFTDWS]

Ah, so I see you haven't heard about the great marshmallow experiment I conducted from 2009 -2011?!

It was done under spiritual guidance from the great celestial teapot

I'm open to many things, there's plenty of people who put clay and all kinds of crap on their horses legs after xc, which is accepted practise. I can't help but think a good wash down and plenty of walking with turnout is just as beneficial - you know, the natural way a horse would recover after runnign away from a predator

What journal was it in I must have missed it Never mind, I always wrap mine in marshmallow anyway

Yes, the claying thing is bizarre. Lots of accepted practice things are odd - interestingly, some turn out to be useful, others not when they're investigated (if they're investigated at all ) though it rarely changes what people do anyway

 

[dafthoss]

I know vets that tell the owner to use such products to make the owner feel like they are helping they say that it doesnt make any diffrence to the horse but the owner is happier than just leaving nature to do its thing.

 

[9tails]

I have a magnetic bangle. I also have arthritic knees. I don't have the symptoms of arthritic knees when wearing the bangle, but it took two weeks to get rid of the arthritic symptoms when I removed it for a weekend. Maybe it is a placebo but if it works that well I'm sticking with it.

 

[Shilasdair]

I'd like to opt for the great Scottish term of 'not proven', please.
Thanks
S

 

[bumblelion]

Iv noticed a huge difference in my arthritic horse, he wears his bioflow boots every night and comes out of his stable much less stiff than without. Since using them he's now off his daily bute and his arthritis can be managed with them and the no bute supp. He's got osteo arthritis and has had surgery on both stifles.
I really rate them and would never judge before I tried something which is why I bought a pair!! IMO they've been very beneficial for my horse. And he appears much more agile and comfortable than he did 2 years prior to purchasing them. Plus they're the only boots he has never attempted to rip off! Iv just bought my dog a bioflow collar so will see if it has the same effect on her!

 

[LouiseL008]

I think they do! got my horse 11.5 years ago aged 9 & he came with a magnetic 'bracelet' on for his arthritis so he had one on permanently! They are cheap to replace (I bought armadillo magnetic wrap thingy which went on a flash strap around his leg!) & didn't do him any harm whilst he was with me! He was recently put to sleep due to an unrelated health issue, but if in doubt just give it a go as there is only you can decide if it helps your horse!!

 

[Nocturnal]

How do you know the magnets stopped your horse's legs from filling?

Because the horse had a normal rug on at first, but his legs filled after a few days of being in. I swapped to a magnet rug and the legs started going down, and were normal a couple of days later. Nothing else changed, and my other horse's legs remained filled.

 

[Holl&Ru]

I know that they work on my pain and use them regularly so if I had cause to I would try them on Ru

 

[fburton]

Because the horse had a normal rug on at first, but his legs filled after a few days of being in. I swapped to a magnet rug and the legs started going down, and were normal a couple of days later. Nothing else changed, and my other horse's legs remained filled.

Okay, that still leaves open the possibility that the one horse's legs would have gone down anyway with or without the magnets. Medical conditions can improve by themselves without any special intervention (like my earache did last week, thank goodness). It would have been useful, from the pov of showing an effect of magnets, if you had swapped the rugs back and the legs came up again - without changing anything else, and making sure that the rug wasn't affecting the horse's behaviour in any way (e.g. he was moving around more with one rug compared with the other). If you had been able to do that a few times, I would be convinced that something about the rug was making the difference.

I realize my scepticism must be infuriating to some. Still, I don't really want to upset anyone who feels that magnets are beneficial. Indeed, people absolutely should be free to do whatever they feel is right or pleases them as long as no one else is harmed - and we sceptics should also be free to voice our doubts politely.

 

[Nocturnal]

Okay, that still leaves open the possibility that the one horse's legs would have gone down anyway with or without the magnets. Medical conditions can improve by themselves without any special intervention (like my earache did last week, thank goodness). It would have been useful, from the pov of showing an effect of magnets, if you had swapped the rugs back and the legs came up again - without changing anything else, and making sure that the rug wasn't affecting the horse's behaviour in any way (e.g. he was moving around more with one rug compared with the other). If you had been able to do that a few times, I would be convinced that something about the rug was making the difference.

I realize my scepticism must be infuriating to some. Still, I don't really want to upset anyone who feels that magnets are beneficial. Indeed, people absolutely should be free to do whatever they feel is right or pleases them as long as no one else is harmed - and we sceptics should also be free to voice our doubts politely.

I understand your scepticism, and doubt I would be convinced by my experiences if they had instead been related to me by someone else. That said, I guess all I can say is that I know my horse His legs don't go down when on boxrest (and he's a walking disaster, so has done a fair bit of 'time'). The state of his bed remained the same, so no evidence of more movement... And the simplest solution is usually the correct one .

 

[Casey76]

I have no idea... but it makes *me* feel better to put Pintos hock wraps on for half an hour before riding.

It's not going to do him any harn, so I'll keep on doing it

 

[jrp204]

So who's going to start a balance band thread?

 

[rhino]

So who's going to start a balance band thread?

There is on in CR somewhere, very very funny

Found it!
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=498014&highlight=mojo

 

[Wagtail]

I understand your scepticism, and doubt I would be convinced by my experiences if they had instead been related to me by someone else. That said, I guess all I can say is that I know my horse His legs don't go down when on boxrest (and he's a walking disaster, so has done a fair bit of 'time'). The state of his bed remained the same, so no evidence of more movement... And the simplest solution is usually the correct one .

Wow, coe to think about it, by boys legs have started to fill again since I stopped uising the magnetic rug! I only stopped as I am trialing a Cyclossage system at the minute as a case study for the company. I might start putting the magnetic rug back on again after his massage sessions and see if his legs are less filled. Interesting.

 

[TART]

About 10 years ago OH had terrible golfers elbow and at a ODE bought a bioflow bracelet at my insistence - he said it was great and was very impressed (that doesn't happen too often) so when our old retreiver was struggling we bought him a bioflow collar and within a couple of weeks he was able to get up our stairs again (naughty lad) but he had a stroke a little later and I was a little concerned that just maybe ....... anyway when my girlie got trauma arthritis in her knee I bought a band to leave on in the field and all seemed well, so much so that at YHL we bought her some Bioflow anklets which she has worn throughout most of the winter, but as she is in foal we removed them a couple of months ago (they can cause problems in in-foal mares) and guess what????? she's no different!!!! so will I use them again - yes on the basis that everything helps - but nothing is a miracle cure

 

[Holly Hocks]

I have Brodpod leg wraps (not boots or bandages - just wraps about 4 inches in width). I put them on my mare's back legs at night as she has arthritis in her fetlock and PSLD. If I forget to put them on, her arthritic fetlock swells, if I put them on, they don't. and I put them further up her legs, not near the hock. I don't know how they work, but I can't dispute that they do.

I had physio recently at the hospital for my bad back and was discussing with the physio what she thought of magnetic bracelets. She said that she thought they were a good idea and that they did help.

Was it scientists who said that Thalidomide was safe?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

My 24 yr old TBxWelshD mare with arthritis benefitted hugely from boots with magnets. She had gradually been getting lamer and lamer until she was hobbling on 2 bute per day. The next step was PTS. As an absolute last resort, I rang a local agent on the recommendation of an acquaintance and he delivered a pair of boots that evening. The mare wore them overnight in the stable and then for another 12 hours in the field. She TROTTED into the stable for her tea after wearing the boots for 24 hrs. She continued to wear the boots 12 hrs out of every 24. She offered me her feet to put the boots on, each evening, not something I would have expected that particular mare to do. She continued to be sound for the next 3 months, when unfortunately, she had a stroke in the stable and had to be pts.
I have lent the boots to friends whose horses had 1. navicular syndrome and 2. unspecified lameness but they were not as effective on those horses. We used them on a different mare who had arthritis and was very stiff. They were effective for her, albeit with less dramatic results than the first mare.
My vet has suggested using a magnetic collar for an arthritic dog. He says that they do work for some animals and not for others with apparently the same condition.

 

[rowy]

I just bought a pair of magnetic equilibrium stable boots for my older mare as they were half price at your horse live so the same price as normal ones and thought they were worth a try as my mare gets filled legs and has arthiritis in her front legs.

To be honest, I forgot that she had any thing different on as she usually has her normal equilibrium chaps on anyway (she has had them on over night for last week). And went to lunge her thursday after she had had monday- wednesday off. She is usually very stiff and a bit lame on the lunge after such a lot of days off. To add to this her joint supplement has run out (its in the post) so I was expecting her to be pretty bad.

I was shocked to see that she was completely sound and not stiff at all! To be honest, it has only just clicked now that it was probably her magnetic boots (as I said earlier, I forgot she had any different on until just now when I was browsing this thread lol).

I am a scientist and am meant to be dubious about unproven stuff like this but what can I say, it worked for me!

 

[posie_honey]

worked for my old springer spangle - if we put his collar on over night he was noticably less stiff inthe morning - if we forgot he struggled to get out of bed

how can the 'load of tosh' folk dismiss something like that?

Regardless of sciencetific studies - if something obviously "works" - and if it cant be a placebo effect as in humans - then there surely has to be something in it? or can it be explained away? (in which case pls do - i'm interested)

 

[fburton]

worked for my old springer spangle - if we put his collar on over night he was noticably less stiff inthe morning - if we forgot he struggled to get out of bed

how can the 'load of tosh' folk dismiss something like that?

The 'jury's out' folk (and maybe some of the 'load of tosh' folk) might suggest that you repeat your observations using a collar that was identical in every way apart from not having magnets (or, even better, containing magnets that had been demagnetized). If you still found a difference, they might suggest that the collar was picked randomly every night and that you shouldn't be able to tell which one it is. Repeat enough nights to make it possible to be sure the effect you are seeing isn't due to chance. If active magnets still help after that, the skeptics would have to sit up and take notice I think.

(Why would wearing a collar without magnets make a difference? Well, perhaps your dog gets up more in the night when it's on, easing the joints more from the exercise. Just a suggestion.)

Actually, I'm surprised the magnetic collar/wrap makers haven't followed this line of inquiry up with people like yourself, as that would win over many skeptics. Or maybe they are just happy to rely on the custom of everyone else.

As I said before, however, people can do whatever they with their magnetic goods and as long as it harms no one, it's none of our business!

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

Do magnets work? Well yes, they are magnetic

Do they increase blood flow? Reduce pain? No, not possible. Two double blind studies, one at Baylor College of Medicine, and one at NY Medical College, showed NO effect, and another number of recognised trials shows the same.

There have been a number of successful fairly high profile court cases against manufacturers of magnetic products and their false claims to be beneficial.

However, they are very unlikely to be harmful..

Taken from Professor Finegold's article in the British Medical Journal



I await a thread full of lovely anecdotes that says otherwise, but as we all know by now 'The plural of anecdotes is not data'.

And if anyone wants to read some research for themselves:
Magnet therapy does not alter blood flow:
Mayrovitz HN and others. Assessment of the short-term effects of a permanent magnet on normal skin blood circulation via laser-Doppler flowmetry. Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine 6(1):9-12, 2002]
Martel GF, Andrews SC, Roseboom CG. Comparison of static and placebo magnets on resting forearm blood flow in young, healthy men. J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 2002;32:518-524.

Magnetic therapy is not pain relieving:
Pittler MH, Brown EM, Ernst E. Static magnets for reducing pain: systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized trials. CMAJ. 2007;177:736-742.

I dont need to say anymore than this ^^

 

[acw295]

My equine chiro suggested I try magnets on Molly as the leg she had splint fracture surgery on fills - but she said most of the products are a waste of money and that it is pointless buying something magnetic for a specific area.

She says that humans only need to wear a bracelet to see improvement anywhere in the body as increased bloodflow flows around the whole body - so it is not necessary to use a rug for backs, or boots for legs etc in horses either. Increased bloodflow will go all round the body regardless.

Its an interesting theory - I am a natural sceptic who thinks its probably nonsense, but have a knackered knee (awaiting surgery next year) so tempted to get a bracelet for me and similar for Molly and see if my knee (and her hind leg) is any different after using a simple magnet placed in an unrelated place on the body..

Will report back

 

[Marydoll]

Tbh im not fussed what anyone thinks, its up to them if they want to use magnets, or not, i use them on 2 horses and imo they have made a difference to both of them, they move better and appear less stiff