Do many dogs do this??

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gemstone

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How many people on here have dogs that see small, frightened children as being irresistibly chaseable?
Lola is nearly 8-months old, she is an exciteable, jumpy-up, nippy, herdy type of monster and i'm worried about her nipping/chasing. It's more children I worry about. Her recall is generally very good but today I was in a park with her and two young kids were playing in the trees nearby and she ignored them until they ran out from them and then stopped when she looked over at them (she is not small!). She trotted up to them and started bouncing around and play-bowing, then one of them screamed and ran off and it was game-over. There was no way I'd be able to call her back so I ran after her and managed to grab her, while the mum was shouting 'control your dog!' (don't blame her, I suppose). I also got my arm chewed for my trouble, which is what she does if you grab her collar.

She is not at all aggressive, but I've been working so hard with her chasing, she used to be the same with bikes and joggers and this has almost stopped now, so it's really disheartening that she did this today. We also had an incident yesterday with some people playing a football match, you can guess what happened and i was so angry because that morning I had said 'leave it' when she went over to some kids playing football and she had done so straight away. It's just so hard, doing all the training, then they do something like that!

We used to have a lot of trouble with her jumping up and nipping my 8yr old sister, this is getting better as she grows up but occasionally she has lapses. She does it to me sometimes as well on walks, don't know what the trigger is, sometimes she goes for days at a time without doing it, but she has ripped through my jacket and it hurts when she goes for your calves!

Anyway, sorry this has turned into an essay this is the first dog I've tried to train myself and I feel like it's going so wrong :(
Doughnuts if you've got this far!
 
Chewing your arm if you grab her - and she's bowling along at children? Regardless of what I think as a childless adult - I can imagine you are well on your way to a visit from the dog warden from an overprotective parent! If you cannot recall her, she shouldn't be off a long line IMHO escpecially if she finds children fascinating!

I'd be asking some friends to bring their kids to the park and training her on a long line, to come back from them when called - no matter what they are doing.

If a child got hold of her collar and she chewed their arm, you'd be in a whole world of bother.

Well done for coming and getting advise - lots of good people here for training who will help you loads - but I do think you need to see this as serious, that way you are more likely to get results :) Best of Luck x
 
Correct, I am taking this extremely seriously! As I said, her recall is usually very good, even if she is playing with a dog she will come back immediately but if she decides to chase something small and fast-moving then it's another story. In fairness to her this is very unusual, we pass lots of children and usually she ignores them or i can easily draw her attention away from them. I don't know why today and yesterday she suddenly decided otherwise. I took her to the nursery afterwards, where they have a fence around the play area and stood with her on the other side from all the kids, and got her to sit and gave her treats in a probably not very effective attempt to desenstise her, she payed them very little attention then.
I don't really know anyone else with young children but I may get a long line, that's a good idea. Then I could find some children running around maybe, and just stand near them and keep recalling her? You're right, I need to sort the arm-gnawing out, I am worried that a kid will grab her collar and I will get in trouble :( The parent probably wouldn't even have to be that overprotective. I have no idea how to do that though, I've tried plying her with treats while holding her collar but when I put pressure on it she fights it.
Thank you for your thoughts Kitsune, much appreciated :)
 
I have a similar-ish problem with not being sure how my two will react to running livestock :) I am going to do similar with them and a few stooge rams from a friends farm.

If you post your general area maybe someone will be local to you on here, with a dog savvy child they'd be happy to help with. I think with everything with dogs, its totally about making the fun running thing, boring and less impressive! Lets face it boring walk, sniff sniff...oooh running screaming thing YES!!!! Wahoooooo!

And what is totally not scary for an adult - might be terrifying for a child!

Got a squeaky toy - something that can cut through her run and bring her back to you? I mean when most people call their dog when they are worried - the worry they convey in their voice isn't always the best thing to make a dog want to come back to you - whereas SQUEAKY TOY!!! ohhh yess pleaseee! And then lots of totally yummy treats - chicken, sausage etc
 
a long line sounds like a good idea. that way you could test her but you'd still have control to pull her back if she went off.

is there a chance she is just going to be one of those dogs you can never trust 100%? we have a jack russel who can be great 97% of the time but then run off. we always accept that and keep her on a lead as i really think its unfair to have a dog that runs at kids - harmless or not.
 
I see exactly what you mean Kitsune, and yes Lola seems big enough to me let alone to a young child (I've had them burst into tears when she is just walking calmly past them on a short lead!). I never take squeaky toys out with me so that might be something novel to distract her with.
paddi22 I suppose I can't rule that out, but as she is only 7 months old so I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt for now. Obviously though you are right, if I couldn't rely on her 100% I would have to keep her on a line because I imagine it is not nice to be chased by a dog!
 
What breed is she? Children are small, they run, they make high-pitched noises, of course they are attractive things to chase.
While it isn't ideal for your dog to be doing this, all parents should teach their children to stand still and remain calm and silent when approached by a dog that seems scary or looks as if it wants to chase. Running and squealing are two behaviours that will guarantee a chase.

Usual triggers for jumping up and mouthing are excitement, boredom, frustration or as a method of evasion (IE I don't want to do this thing that you are asking me to do).
You can, as mentioned, distract, you can also give her an equivalent nip back but I would not advise you to do that as I don't know what type of a dog she is in character.
Don't act all high-energy and high-pitched when she does this or it will turn into a game for the dog.

Sounds like she needs a job and something to occupy her brain, I would look at obedience or agility classes (but no mad running or jumping around until 12 months, especially if she is a large breed).
 
She's a Briard. I was tempted to say something along these lines to the mother but I didn't think she would be particularly receptive to it... This is what made me ask how many other dogs do this, I know it is unacceptable but it must be extremely tempting as you say!
Characterwise she can be good, I was angry and made her sound like a nightmare above but her jumping up and nipping is vastly improved over the past few months, she waits when asked before going through a doorway or crossing the road, she has learned not to chase joggers and cyclists, she is quiet when left and considering a pet sitter called her the mouthiest puppy she had ever seen, she rarely chews things she shouldn't (nowadays!). However, she can be Stubborn with a capital S. I think this is why she chews when being led somewhere by the collar, she just thinks 'That means you're taking me somewhere I dont want to go!'.
I will make sure I am quiet when she jumps up and mouths but what else can I do to stop this? She does this if she gets attention from someone on a walk too. She gets 3-4 walks a day and at least 2 of these are off-lead. I would love to do agility with her, just worried about her hips.
 
It's more common than you would think in working breeds.

If you're worried about her hips, get her X-rayed after 12 months, if they look OK to the vet, then off you go :)

To stop, there are a variety of things you can do, distraction is preferable, or you can use a very, deep, calm, firm stop word, like NO or ENOUGH or STOP, and mean it, stop her in her tracks, then reward when she acts calmly. You can also stop whatever you are doing and completely ignore her until she is calm, then proceed.

Will PM you.
 
All I can say to you is lots of training preferabley in a behavourist training class.

Today I was doing my grocery shop in a big supermarket and there was a child in there wearing highly squekey shoes which presumbley lets the parents know exactly where she is. But I couldnt help thinking how desirable they would be to a dog that had been used to playing with a squekey toy.

And when I say squekey you could hear them from the other side of the supermarket.
 
C - PM received, thanks muchly.
Oof, I hate to think what mine would do if a child was running around in squeaky shoes. Also, aren't children loud enough without attaching noisy things to them?... That is a point tho, I signed up to do an intermediate training class starting in Jan and never heard anything, must chase that up.
Brilliant replies, thanks everyone.
 
gemstone said:
Also, aren't children loud enough without attaching noisy things to them?...
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As mother of a 2 year old boy I couldn't agree more :rolleyes: Those shoes were probably a gift from a misguided relative and will be binned within a week. Guaranteed.

I would use a similar process to sheep-training tbh. Given that dogs are hard-wired to chase things that run away, especially if they are making a delicious squealy noise :rolleyes: you need to take away the novelty value i.e. constant exposure would be ideal but basically as much a possible. Go to schools at playtime, parks at weekends etc but make every walk include a sighting of a child or two, preferably a pack of them :D

Reward every time he looks bored or looks to you when you call him off. Teach him new tricks, keep changing direction, bring his favourite toy out with you and play hide and seek with it, basically make you the most interesting thing in his world. Keep him on a long line until you never get a flicker of a reaction then employ a stooge child or 3 to run and squeal a bit then react in a set way if he does chase (either freeze / fire a water pistol / shout "go away" etc but this depends on the temperament of the individual dog and what would be most off-putting without causing excitement / fear-defence reaction)

Then repeat the whole process with the dog loose and test regularly.......
 
Brownmare - As she seems to be going through a fearful stage, and is prone to running away and howling until I follow her when something spooks her, what would be the best response when I have her on a line, and she tries to chase? Don't think a water pistol would work as she has so much fur (unless I used it on the children perhaps?). I like the idea of walking around a playground, I will start taking her to my sisters school at pick-up time.
 
See, this is the thing about some working breeds - very ballsy on one hand, very sensitive on the other hand and it's a matter of balance - I would second whoever said get her to a good training class in that case as well as getting her more used to children in a controlled environment.
 
Sounds like you are doing really well with her and trying your best. It's important to remember that no dog is perfect and every dog owner has to work on their dog's weaknesses, so don't be disheartened if you have days when she regresses!

Re the jumping up and mouthing, you may want to try the following. Put her on the lead and ask one person to hold her lead and do nothing. Then get as many different people as you can to walk up to her one at a time. If she jumps up the person should fold their arms, turn around and walk calmly away ignoring all other behaviour. If she keeps all four feet on the ground the person should calmly give her a little treat (down at her level so that she doesn't jump up to get it, if at any point she jumps up ignore and walk away) tell her she is a good girl and walk away. Repeat with as many different people as possible as often as possible. Once she learns this with adults, try with children. Training classes can be very helpful with this kind of thing because there are a lot of other people and families around who can help each other out.

Re the chewing your hand when you touch the collar distraction is the key and repetition. Use a treat or chew or squeeky toy to encourage her to turn her head to the right, as her attention is diverted touch her collar on the left (with a smooth, calm movement, don't be tempted to lunge at the collar and grab it). To start off with compromise with just touching the collar, eventually build up to putting a couple of fingers under the collar, to holding her by the collar (don't make the activity progressively more difficult, always revert to easier behaviour so you can reward her often).

Re the chasing kids, work on your recall and 'leave it' commands, ideally with some co-operative children, again training classes may be very helpful. However until the problem is resolved keep her on a long line so that she doesn't repeat the behaviour and get rewarded by it.

Best of luck!
 
You're so right CC - talking to other owners it seems that Briards can be a bit like this, noisy and bouncy one minute and nervous the next, epitomised in the dance she does when someone new comes into the house lol.
Booboos - Thanks for these tips, I have lots of things to try with her now especially regarding the collar thing. She is not stupid, so I will be buying a long line in the next couple of days and baking some liver treats and she should pick it up fairly quickly. Thanks again everyone :)
 
If it makes you feel better, I have a dog who is totally obsessed with children, although slightly different because he doesn't chase or mouth but just utterly adores them and wants to lick their faces. On walks I always recall him if I see an approaching small child, and call him to heel while we pass with a 'high value' treat. However, we have recently discovered that we can take advantage of Stan's obsession with tennis balls as nothing in life, not even a small child running around, is better than a ball so he stays with us if we've got the ball.

For Stan it's about us having things in our armoury that are more exciting, interesting, fun or delicious than a child...or anything else!! I also have a serious 'get back here now!' type of recall - he knows I'm serious from my voice.

All that said, he did 'get' a child at the weekend, but only because its parents decided to walk straight through the middle of 3 dogs playing together - and the family had a dog themselves. I've never known someone to walk their child right up to us like that, and then look disgusted when my dog licks their face, it was weird.
 
Lots of great and helpful advise been offered here already, I very much agree that taking her to dog classes will help, they usually ask you if you have specific problems with your dog and quite often will set up a sinario of when your dogs behaviour becomes a problem and you can correct the behaviour in a controlled situation.

I will also ask you to please keep your dog on a lead at all times when out and about near children, you could be prosecuted for not having control of your dog if a parent of a child took it further following her frighteneing or touching the child.

Good luck with her.
 
bex1984 said:
That does make me feel a little better, I have similar thoughts when people let their kids run away screaming from dogs, I know kids are tricky to control if their genuinely scared but I see some people firmly tell their children to calm down, and some people just don't bother/realise. This isn't when she's chasing them by the way, she's only done that once! This is just when she's playing with another dog nearby.
I'm definately going to keep her on a lead around children. As I said, my next move will be getting a long line, then finding a training class in north London. I didn't realise they could set up specific scenarios for you, that would be good.
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