Do OWNERS have a duty of care ?

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SusieT

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So many many posts on livery yard facilities not being good, e.g stables being too small, fencing inadequate, etc. etc.
At the end of the day it's your horse and your responsibility. You choose where to keep it. You should have inspected before moving there. A yard owner is merely renting you space on their land, and when you sign a contract, there is nothing saying they have to change anything after that.
I'm sick of seeing people trying to blame others for their problems
 
Totally agree with you
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we do have duty of care yes. absolutely stop on but as does the YO. if your horse is damaged by objects that hasn't been maintained then it is the YO responsible. You pay rent to these people who in return are agreeing to provide a safe place for your horse to live.

We all have a responsible to our animals and by contract so does the YO thats why we pay rent.

I personally wouldn't never put my horses somewhere i didn't feel was safe if that means i won't put it in a field with a horse who is gonna kick it to s@@t or in a feild with dodgy fencing then so be it. accidents happen but it is both the Owners and YO responsibility to minimize the risk.
 
Well I tend to skip the 'does my YO have a responsibility to do xyz?' simply because, with the exclusion of one yard, it's always been my husband and I errecting fencing in our individual fields. The YOs have always rolled and topped the fields. At our current yard, my husband helps with that as well, and also drives the tractor to take the muck away.

YOs should be providing a service to a degree, which includes ensuring the safety of paddocks and fencing. They can't expect to take money and just leave it all to the clients to sort.
 
When on a livery yard, i was always mending fences, at the end of the day, why wait for the YO if you can do it sooner?
My horses welfare comes before tittle tattle about who when and where the fences should be mened.
 
It is unrasonable i think anyway to put your horse in a field with barbed wire/farm machinery or anything that is unsafe. You should check these things first, not put your horse in a field with something dangerous and then blame some one else. We all have voices, we all can make choices if its not right say no, dont think "oh its only for a week" or whatever, sods law it will be thatweek some horse eating monster spooks your horse and he gets hurt, thats horses.
When we were looking for a new yard recently we saw some pretty awful places and we didnt go there, we went to the nice well maintained place with good fences and where things are put away after use. We could have chosen the boggy 7 acres with wire fences and a gate that fell off, but we used our common sense and went somewhere else!
The yard owner should maintain it and keep it safe, but we should also take responsabilaty for our own horses, if the yard is a dive dont go.
 
Owners definatly have a duty of care, and if they accept a small stable, or turn out with barbed wire fencing they have accepted the risk. BUT it is the YO's responsibility to maintain, and if an owner is unhappy about fencing etc they should act upon it. I think the YO has far more responsibility for a full livery than a DIY, as very often the owner is not around for days if not weeks at a time, so the YO must care for the horse as if it was their own. I recently had a very bad experiance with a very well know yard (where I worked) when my horse was on full livery when I was on holiday. My mare had broken her automatic waterer, so had a bucket instead. I had been assured this would be fixed asap, so I wasn't worried. Luckily I was only away for 4 days because when I returned the waterer was not fixed, nor had the bucket been filled at all. My horse was so dehydrated she could barely stand, she ended up in horsepital on a drip, and she has suffered kidney damage. I have no idea how nobody noticed, they were supposed to have been riding her, mucking her out, feeding and during this time nobody noticed! As I worked at the yard I knew the person who had been supposedly looking after her, he was fired shortly after my return. But it should be the YO's responsibility to ensure the well being of the horses on their yard, they are in charge of their employees.
 
absolutely, check the place out beforehand and if you dont like it choose (yes, blimey, its a choice!!) somewhere else. dont expect a yard with barbed wire fencing to suddenly become post and railed just because you are parting with a measly £30 a week. it makes me laugh, if livery owners actually had to pay what it costs to keep a horse and give a YO a profit, most of them couldnt afford it. why horse owners think that others should subsidise their hobby has always been beyond me.
and no, I'm not a YO but am an exemplary owner
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I'm sorry about your horse and this is clearly a case where the YO failed in their basic duty of care towards your horse as they were taking your money in payment for said horse's care.

However, as a YO who charges just £15 pw DIY I would soon be serving notice if someone moved on and immediately demanded I change all of the field fencing at several £1000s cost to myself.

Potential livery clients come and have a nose around and have opportunity to ask any questions before THEY decide if the facilities and service on offer is suitable and acceptable to them. As someone else said, if they don't like what they see/hear they can choose to go elsewhere.

Of course, any fencing that is broken during the time the horse is on livery is possibly a cause for general maintenance.....providing it's not a horse that routinely seems to break posts, rails, or their stable and it's fixings weekly. If you have one horse on that proves to be destructive, it is only natural to assume that your £15 pw livery is not going to cover everything.

If you start costing the YO money repeatedly you will either be asked to contribute to repairs or leave.

Take my "yard". It is a working dairy farm. Our summer paddocks are completely horse friendly but in the winter we turn out in the dairy fields once the cows are in. Yes, shock horror, there is barbed wire in the perimeter of those fields but there is also 15 acres per field of nice grass for winter grazing. My husband would not agree to re-fencing it all in post and rail.....largely because our cows like to push through and break P&R fencing which would be an escaping hazard for the livelihood of the farm but also because it would take years of livery to pay for it (as I only have two spare stables for livery clients) so it's not a financially viable option.

I explain where the horses can go over winter. If it's not suitable then I wouldn't expect the livery to move on. I certainly wouldn't promise to change the fencing either.

Regarding safety...no form of fencing is 100% safe. You see and hear of some horrendous injuries from post and rail fencing, electric fence gate openers, smooth wire, stock wire and barbed wire.

I've had horses here for five years and have never had a horse injure itself over winter in the cow fields where there are some barbed wire fences between the gaps in the hedges.

Let's face it....most hedged fields have barbed wire running through the hedge anyway.
 
QR I dont have a particular problem with barbed wire tbh, we certainly have some on the farm where I am. if your horse is going to run through a fence then it'll run through a fence and I've seen terminal injuries from smooth wire and post and rail.
 
Owners have to do as much as they can to assist the YO but in instances such as Full Livery I am paying a YO to look after my horse in the instance that I cant be there, hence the reason the fees are higher.

From the point of choosing the yard, yes the owner chooses it and shouldnt expect change, however YOs have a duty of care towards the horse and both sides must be respected.

I feel the owner should be responsible for ensuring feeds etc are there, any belongings are secure and that the YO is aware of any problems the horse is experiencing.

Fences, running the yard and ensuring it is safe is the YO's duty.
 
So if the fencing or gates aren't maintained and the horse escapes or injures itself on damaged fencing it's the horse owners fault, dont talk crap.
 
Actually, legally speaking - it would be the owners fault - if someone decided to let out your horse, then you would be liable.

BUT, am interested if your horse DID injure itself in a freak accident - who would be liable? have no axe to grind or injured pony.... I assumed it would be my insurance?

The best you can do is to have a good round when checking out a yard, and look at the state of the horses/beds in the boxes as well as looking at the facilities. I really hate moving because I much prefer to know what I am dealing with....!
 
[ QUOTE ]
When on a livery yard, i was always mending fences, at the end of the day, why wait for the YO if you can do it sooner?
My horses welfare comes before tittle tattle about who when and where the fences should be mened.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats exactly the way I would expect a normal person who cares for their animals to react. A couple of friends of mine have this notion that if spmething needs doing and the YO cant or wont do it then it doesnt get done. I have previously mentioned to them that perhaps it would be to their horses benefit if they were to do these things themselves? Apparently not though, they believe they pay for it so they wont entertain spending any more money themselves to have a safer environment for their horses. It doesnt make any sense to me but I no longer say anything to them as no matter what way I put it to them they still believe that Nanny needs to be there to wipe their backsides.
 
yes owners do have a duty of care and welfare. if on livery the YO also has a duty of care! if on livery then communication is the name of the game! politelyboth ways! depends on your livery contract to level of service and facilities available to you! most good livery yards have good commercial liability insurance and 3 c (care custody and control) liability. If you are renting a field the landowner is still liable if stock escapes and causes an accident. its up to you as an owner if you go into an agreement which involves barbed wire (your choice). most livery clients require a nice field,nice stable, lights, water, nice fencing and nice facilities but waken up nice everything costs!!
 
Yard owners have total responsibility for the facilities they provide as they are a business.

Fencing for horses should be heavy duty post and rail fencing with Equi-fencing on it (a tight form of sheep fencing). This produces a very strong fence and even if the rails break they are held in place with the Equi-fencing.
 
I would think YO have a duty to uphold what is contracted to - and the owners to take responsibility for their horse. Like someones already said - a horse can cause immense damage to themselves on something perfectly acceptable (e.g galloping around in a wet field, fall over etc...) and sometimes the owners just have to accept responsibility for their animals and not look for "someone else to blame"
 
Yes!!!!

Under the Welfare 2006 Act all livery yard owners are liable for the horses on their property regardless of whether the owner of the horse attends daily or not!!!!!
 
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