Do small puppies remain small?

[Karran]

I have a working Cocker - I was reluctant to begin with - I live in London and work fulltime and my partner works away a lot so worried that we'd struggle to keep her amused but I adore her to bits.
She is up at the yard with me 3 times a week, and has three walks a day for about half an hour each off lead in the "little" park during the week and at the weekends we go to the woods or the "big" park for an hour or so on top of that.
She came to me at end of Feb and had no training at all, begged for food, clambered on sofas, chewed shoes, nearly ripped my arm out with her pulling on the lead but she's amazingly intelligent and that's all stopped now, we walk nicely on a lead 90% of the time, she knows sit, stay, down, roll over, paw, to spin on the spot and has a little cone that she hits with her paw as "target" practise.
We're currently learning how to bow and to do distance sits.
She's the most vocal dog i've ever met, not barking but whining, squeaking and grumbling.
She's good with horses and adores children she's met in the park (awful with chickens though).

She's a pain at the moment as has been spayed last Monday and confined to the house and tbh we're struggling with that a bit, she is going a little stir-crazy so really looking forward to getting the all clear for a good run about.

Downsides to her is that she is very clingy, likes to be as close as possible to me, needs endless amusements either with her bone or her toys but as long as she's in the same room will play with them happily. She's almost too smart for me and figures out ways to defeat my attempts at having afternoon naps on a regular basis.

But Quagga sums her up perfectly! She's a happy, busy little dog and i'd def look into replacing her with the same breed/type when the time comes.

 

[Patchworkpony]

This is my 9 week old pup Beau I knew mum and dad and the breeder is a friend and we chose him to be my agility dog so he is driven and brave. He is toilet trained in a week we can do sit/down. Settled to his crate brilliantly I'm so pleased with him only issue is his really sharp teeth!!

SO beautiful and so good - how inspiring.

 

[Patchworkpony]

I have a working Cocker - I was reluctant to begin with - I live in London and work fulltime and my partner works away a lot so worried that we'd struggle to keep her amused but I adore her to bits.
She is up at the yard with me 3 times a week, and has three walks a day for about half an hour each off lead in the "little" park during the week and at the weekends we go to the woods or the "big" park for an hour or so on top of that.
She came to me at end of Feb and had no training at all, begged for food, clambered on sofas, chewed shoes, nearly ripped my arm out with her pulling on the lead but she's amazingly intelligent and that's all stopped now, we walk nicely on a lead 90% of the time, she knows sit, stay, down, roll over, paw, to spin on the spot and has a little cone that she hits with her paw as "target" practise.
We're currently learning how to bow and to do distance sits.
She's the most vocal dog i've ever met, not barking but whining, squeaking and grumbling.
She's good with horses and adores children she's met in the park (awful with chickens though).

She's a pain at the moment as has been spayed last Monday and confined to the house and tbh we're struggling with that a bit, she is going a little stir-crazy so really looking forward to getting the all clear for a good run about.

Downsides to her is that she is very clingy, likes to be as close as possible to me, needs endless amusements either with her bone or her toys but as long as she's in the same room will play with them happily. She's almost too smart for me and figures out ways to defeat my attempts at having afternoon naps on a regular basis.

But Quagga sums her up perfectly! She's a happy, busy little dog and i'd def look into replacing her with the same breed/type when the time comes.

She sounds lovely - how old was she when you got her?

 

[Karran]

She sounds lovely - how old was she when you got her?

she was 11 months old - friend of a friend's marriage broke up and neither wanted the responsibility of her full time.
I made a little thread about her here last Monday to keep me from fretting while she had the op. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...138-Mrs-Spaniel-update-(pic-and-vid-OVERLOAD)

 

[Patchworkpony]

she was 11 months old - friend of a friend's marriage broke up and neither wanted the responsibility of her full time.
I made a little thread about her here last Monday to keep me from fretting while she had the op. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...138-Mrs-Spaniel-update-(pic-and-vid-OVERLOAD)

I SO love your spaniel - she's the colour I had in mind. She's very lucky someone as caring as you took her in.

 

[Alec Swan]

…….. So how does one find the right one because most breeders will tell you what you want to hear.

I'm not sure. I suspect that we mostly learn from our mistakes, which I understand is a path that you'd rather not walk! There are certainly those Cockers which are amenable, but how much of that is to do with the parental influence and how much from their early treatment by humans, is a rather subjective matter!

I still think that if you were to look for a dog which already has its mind made up, and as one which wants to serve you, then that would be the better way forwards. Getting in to the minds of the already self willed and having them comply, calls for a degree of focus and effort. Considering your previous comments, I'd suggest that if a truly amenable example of the breed, as an adult can't be found, then it may be an idea to consider another breed! Have you consider the Charles as a possible companion, in what ever form? I've mostly found them to be quite delightful. Not perhaps what we'd call a 'spaniel' but none the less, appealing little dogs!

Alec.

 

[ester]

My friend acquired a pup about 9 months ago, she's been pretty fab all round really. She goes out on the tractor with her partner all day (and occasionally night) and is lorry/eventing/yard/house dog the rest of the time. Not sure whether she stops if she is stalking a pigeon yet . She has been a damn site easier to have around than the jack russell who arrived at the same time (different family, same stable yard).

 

[Patchworkpony]

I'm not sure. I suspect that we mostly learn from our mistakes, which I understand is a path that you'd rather not walk! There are certainly those Cockers which are amenable, but how much of that is to do with the parental influence and how much from their early treatment by humans, is a rather subjective matter!

I still think that if you were to look for a dog which already has its mind made up, and as one which wants to serve you, then that would be the better way forwards. Getting in to the minds of the already self willed and having them comply, calls for a degree of focus and effort. Considering your previous comments, I'd suggest that if a truly amenable example of the breed, as an adult can't be found, then it may be an idea to consider another breed! Have you consider the Charles as a possible companion, in what ever form? I've mostly found them to be quite delightful. Not perhaps what we'd call a 'spaniel' but none the less, appealing little dogs!

Alec.

Yes - I did want a KCC and was all set to buy one but they have SO many health problems and in fact my vet (who advised against them) said they pay for her holiday every year. The good breeders have a year's waiting list and at my age that is far too long. Also people do say they have a stubborn streak and don't want to do too much work. It is such a minefield buying a dog. Now native ponies I know my onions so maybe I should just get a miniature and throw sticks for it!

 

[RunToEarth]

Oh Nicnac, why are you always so rude about flatcoats? I have had them for 35 years and every one has been brilliant and easy to train. Full of fun,enthusiasm and willingness to please.
n my experience at gundog classes alot easier and less hyper than any spaniel.
Sorry, I dont often get on my high horse, but you touched a nerve there about my favourite breed!

I had a flatcoat, it was wonderful at chewing through hydraulic brake lines on the tractors and embarrassing me on shoot days, so I agree with Nicnac, although they are a lovely looking dog.

I've had springers and cockers, and the cockers were always harder work, but on a day when they worked well for me, they gave me a lot more sense of achievement than the springers. Spaniels are all different though, I kept a pup from our springer's litter because she was so placid and laid back. I ended up with a neurotic, vibrating, dizzy little bitch - she works incredibly well but does just "switch off" sometimes and it infuriates me.

So... my conclusion is get a golden retriever. All those painful days, weeks, months of spaniel training that I endured, no one told me about golden retrievers. I can't vouch for her working credentials as she's still young, but in terms of trainability and nature, she is just so much easier than any spaniel I've ever met.

 

[Chiffy]

RTE not one of my flatcoats has ever chewed anything, have I been lucky or you unlucky?!
I do not go shooting but they have excelled at Field Trials, Obedience and Agility. I did consider Goldens when first wanting a retriever, they are lovely but heavier in build and coat and more ponderous in their work ( just my opinion)
It's lucky we all like different breeds so that there is plenty of diversity to suit us all. I rarely criticize any breed as everyone has different priorities.

 

[RunToEarth]

RTE not one of my flatcoats has ever chewed anything, have I been lucky or you unlucky?!
I do not go shooting but they have excelled at Field Trials, Obedience and Agility. I did consider Goldens when first wanting a retriever, they are lovely but heavier in build and coat and more ponderous in their work ( just my opinion)
It's lucky we all like different breeds so that there is plenty of diversity to suit us all. I rarely criticize any breed as everyone has different priorities.

I think Nicnac's post was tongue in cheek rather than a criticism of the breed. Personally I think it is better for the breed standard that flatcoats haven't become as popular as goldens - the popularity has caused the breed to be full of health and temperament problems which makes finding a decent breeder more painstaking than flatcoats.

We were unlucky, despite buying from well health tested parents she developed cataracts which I think contributed heavily to the problems with her behaviour as it wasn't picked up immediately. My comment wasn't really a dig at the breed, if I weren't such a sucker for little yellow hairs everywhere I would consider another flat coat.

 

[Thistle]

RTE, could you let me have details of your pups breeder please. I have been considering a working goldie as next dog, probably a year or two away.

 

[RunToEarth]

RTE, could you let me have details of your pups breeder please. I have been considering a working goldie as next dog, probably a year or two away.

Hi Thistle. When I spoke to her a few weeks ago she didn't think she would be breeding any more litters, she is focussing on gundog training. I have already researched in depth (and put my name on a long list!) for my next working goldie. I was questioning my decision having only seen one of their bitches in the flesh however after seeing some of the breeder's progeny working at the Gamefair I am won over completely - I will PM you the info.

 

[Alec Swan]

Just one word of caution; When we see beautifully behaved working dogs it should be born in mind that the larger part of their amenable behaviour is because of their upbringing and training, just as much as their breeding, and no matter how well bred, in careless hands, all work-bred dogs can become a liability.

Alec.

 

[RunToEarth]

Just one word of caution; When we see beautifully behaved working dogs it should be born in mind that the larger part of their amenable behaviour is because of their upbringing and training, just as much as their breeding, and no matter how well bred, in careless hands, all work-bred dogs can become a liability.

Alec.

I agree. I tend to take a view that the working dogs I see at CLA are akin to the workers at RIHS - the product of blood, sweat and tears. I just think it is important for people to know that the differences in training between breeds is sometimes huge. I have done relatively little in the way of training the retriever compared to the hours I put in with the spaniels, to achieve the same result. Training dogs properly is actually very hard work!

 

[Patchworkpony]

Training dogs properly is actually very hard work!

So is training independent natured, sometimes wilful, native ponies. Getting a reliable safe driving pony for instance doesn't just happen it takes years of very slow steady training, where you build a bond of complete trust, so I would imagine it would be the same with an intelligent, spirited dog.

 

[Alec Swan]

Pwp, not too sure about horses and if it applies, but with dogs, it's largely a matter of the level of temptation that we place in front of them and at what stage in their training. The dog which will sit quietly at a peg and which we *KNOW* is guaranteed riot proof, generally wanders off, when sent, and picks a bird or two. The dog which is sitting there twitching and is likely to riot, does everything at 90mph and is a bit of a demon. I prefer the dog which I daren't take my eye off! Getting inside their heads and maintaining that 'balance' is the trick, which neatly takes us back to cockers!

With say Gundogs, the Field Trial champion, regardless of breed, rarely lasts in the Trial Field much after the age of 4 or 5. They become unmanageable! The Advanced 3 day event horse will maintain a level which will endure until it starts to slow down through age, or it's infirm.

Alec.

 

[Clodagh]

RtE, a friend of mine walks guide dog pups, which are working bred types, and she said the goldies are so much easier than the labs, quicker to learn and more amenable.
I do like working goldies but will never be allowed to have one - my OH is convinced every townie that moves to the countryside gets a goldie to show they have arrived. I think he means the fat white ones though. Yours is a stunner.

 

[Patchworkpony]

Pwp, not too sure about horses and if it applies, but with dogs, it's largely a matter of the level of temptation that we place in front of them and at what stage in their training. The dog which will sit quietly at a peg and which we *KNOW* is guaranteed riot proof, generally wanders off, when sent, and picks a bird or two. The dog which is sitting there twitching and is likely to riot, does everything at 90mph and is a bit of a demon. I prefer the dog which I daren't take my eye off! Getting inside their heads and maintaining that 'balance' is the trick, which neatly takes us back to cockers!

With say Gundogs, the Field Trial champion, regardless of breed, rarely lasts in the Trial Field much after the age of 4 or 5. They become unmanageable! The Advanced 3 day event horse will maintain a level which will endure until it starts to slow down through age, or it's infirm.

Alec.

This is all so interesting. I never really realised quite how fine a balance you need to keep with cocker spaniels. The problem I have is they are my favourite breed - I can't stand yappy little dogs which are probably more suitable for the age I am now. Maybe it is best not to have a spaniel rather than risk ruining it. They do seem quite wilful and certainly full of masses of energy.

 

[Karran]

Its interesting to see Alec's view on Cockers compared to those who have them as pets. Obviously its a completely different way of life to how my dog is kept and i won't deny that she's not the easiest dog in the world but maybe i've just been quite lucky with her temperament.
She does do the 'sod off' look really well but i wouldn't consider her to be willful at all.
I had no idea that they were viewed quite so strongly compared to Springers!

 

[RunToEarth]

With say Gundogs, the Field Trial champion, regardless of breed, rarely lasts in the Trial Field much after the age of 4 or 5. They become unmanageable! The Advanced 3 day event horse will maintain a level which will endure until it starts to slow down through age, or it's infirm.

Alec.

Oh yes! One of my best friend's has an ex FT champ. Fantastic but my god she's sharp. A bit like that hedge machine coloured I had who was awesome but you never quite knew when it was about to blow up and take half the field out sideways after it had been asked to stand for too long. She is the most fantastic dog I've ever seen working, she's marked everything in front of her and those birds are back at your feet before she's set off! Do you still work them?

RtE, a friend of mine walks guide dog pups, which are working bred types, and she said the goldies are so much easier than the labs, quicker to learn and more amenable.
I do like working goldies but will never be allowed to have one - my OH is convinced every townie that moves to the countryside gets a goldie to show they have arrived. I think he means the fat white ones though. Yours is a stunner.

I've never had a lab so I can't compare her, she seems very bright and her mouth is like butter.

I always associated goldens with old people, really white ones. Apparently the showing lines are lighter with even longer (!) coats.

The problem I have (which I never thought of until a few weeks ago) is that she is far too light for a shooting day, so I need to get her used to a camo neoprene!!

 

[Clodagh]

I was speaking to our combine driver tonight, he was admiring my labs (of course) and said he used to have labs but now had cockers. He said labs got boring after a while whereas a cocker never bored anyone, his are neurotic (his words) and hard work, but you always know you are alive with them!

 

[blackcob]

Its interesting to see Alec's view on Cockers compared to those who have them as pets. Obviously its a completely different way of life to how my dog is kept and i won't deny that she's not the easiest dog in the world but maybe i've just been quite lucky with her temperament.

I was about to comment similarly, the only cocker of my close acquaintance is a lazy, entirely predictable and sweet little dog who would rather be snoring and farting on the sofa than doing a day's work. He is show bred though and has more dangly ears and feather than he has brains. Not my usual sort but I must concede that he's a brilliant pet dog.

 

[suffolkmare]

Been reading with interest as I (reluctantly) agreed on a wcs puppy. She is not docked as parents never worked with gun, and is, at 4 months still fairly small (mum was small). She has proved to be intelligent, fast, loving, sensitive, and occasionally manic. BUT today, for various reasons we haven't been able to take her out for a walk or run, so just play in the garden and practice a little basic training... she has mostly slept and is currently zonked at my feet as usual of an evening. Will she be extra manic tomorrow?? I know it will be fun finding out as fun is definitely something they bring in abundance!

 

[Jola]

Been reading with interest as I (reluctantly) agreed on a wcs puppy. She is not docked as parents never worked with gun, and is, at 4 months still fairly small (mum was small). She has proved to be intelligent, fast, loving, sensitive, and occasionally manic. BUT today, for various reasons we haven't been able to take her out for a walk or run, so just play in the garden and practice a little basic training... she has mostly slept and is currently zonked at my feet as usual of an evening. Will she be extra manic tomorrow?? I know it will be fun finding out as fun is definitely something they bring in abundance!

Mine is like this. Sleeps for England! Goes mad on a walk but isn't fussed if he can't get one for any reason. Very rare occasion though since we also have a springer who needs permanent entertainment