Do some people take hi vis/road safety too far...?

I don't think anyone can be TOO visible even if they do look pretty comical to others (I go for tabard and 4 leg bands which is comparatively minimal it seems), but the CCTV thing would rile me, as I actually find the POLITE things kind of annoying, I can't really explain it, I just think it's like 'haha fooled you!'. Maybe the CCTV thing was supposed to be a funny joke? Like those tabards that say 'does my bum look big on this?' If it had been pink and accompanied by a thelwell cartoon it may have looked friendlier... I am imagining a sour faced woman with lack of thanks passing by in such a garment, ha!

If she had trotted by smiling and waving you might just have thought 'what a fun and wacky woman, and so visible!'
 
Elsbells that crossed my mind. maybe she as had accident and to be honest if it makes her feel safer what harm is she doing . and she will be noticed annd i for 1 would prefer that than be another statistc. a thank you would be polite but nope i dont think she ovrr did it
 
The CCTV vest is from the recent campaign from Horse Riding Safety Association. It's a fantastic idea slows everyone down to think what they are doing. After nearly being run down by a cyclist wearing a helmet cam without any hi viz on which was pointed out to him there is no excuse.

Live near york and there is a town that's very busy on the outskirts which has a yard. I came across three different groups of riders in the busy rush hour without hi viz on. No excuse. Light up or get off the road.
 
I don't think the cctv vest is a fantastic idea - if it rubs other road users up the wrong way it will probably do more harm than good. And as for posting videos on the internet :rolleyes:- keep the footage and if an offence has been committed then show it to the police (in the same way that cyclists and bus drivers and taxi drivers etc. do). At what point exactly did the horsey community become condescending and judgmental? - it really doesn't do us any favours with the rest of society.
 
Hat Cams are legal in public places, good enough for cyclists, good enough for us, who cares what they are recording, maybe some riders do go a bit far with the amount of Hi Viz, but better that than getting hit by a car, maybe they have had some big problems with idiot motorists and feel the need for camera and "lots" of Viz gear.

I don't use my hat cam that much, only for fun mostly.
 
DabDab said:
I don't think the cctv vest is a fantastic idea - if it rubs other road users up the wrong way it will probably do more harm than good. And as for posting videos on the internet :rolleyes:- keep the footage and if an offence has been committed then show it to the police (in the same way that cyclists and bus drivers and taxi drivers etc. do). At what point exactly did the horsey community become condescending and judgmental? - it really doesn't do us any favours with the rest of society.
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Exactly I hate this attitude and what's the pleasure of riding with that attitude in your mind I was thinking about this its like burglars most people take reasonable steps to prevent their house being broken in to .
They lock doors and windows etc some might get an alarm some are naturally fearful and puts bars on windows etc etc and live in fear and misery in a fortress and some like one of my mates never even lock their door.
You are seeing the same range of approaches to risk in this debate .
Cyclists are interesting in my experiance far more of them expect the other road users to amend their driveing to accommodate them than I have ever seen from riders cyclists are much more likely to be aggressive and selfish.
As for posting footage on the Internet I think that's appalling if you must wear a hat cam and think an offence has been committed go to the police .Reading threads on here gives IMO a false view of the true situation the vast percentage of drivers are good wear some high viz to ensure the drivers can see you in poor conditions and then spend some time learning to ride better so you can maitain your postion in emergency and train your horse better but we don't see threads about that do we.
 
If it doesnt personally affect me riders can wear what they like, and as others have said better to have it than not, the hat cam thing sounds like shes possibly had a fright at some point . This post imo is just typical of some horsey folks, and is like gossip on a livery yard, i cant understand why it would wind you up enough to put it on here, as for the lady continuing to just walk with her horse, she might have had a good reason to do so, it might be recovering after an injury and just at walk, or might be unable for whatever reason to trot on the roads.
 
Cortez said:
CCTV? What was she supposed to be filming? What for? Roads ARE foul, which is why I don't ride on them any more (and not for the last 10 years at least). Weird person.
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Unfortunately most of us don't have the luxury of only riding off road so we have to brave them. Perhaps this woman had had a really bad incident in the past. TBH I wouldn't wear that much hi viz but I'd rather a belisha beacon effect than none at all, which is still way too common round here.
 
i would imagine the CCTV vest is so if there was a driver behaving dangerously, and the rider reported it to the police with the vid as evidence, said evidence would be admissible in court...... Sensible if you ask me.

I dont know how many times I have nearly been run off the road recently, had someone accelerate past me doing at least 55, another who gave so much room to a bike on the opposite side he had to swerve not to hit me head on :o
Also given that we have a lot of dykes around us its not always possible to leg yeild out of the way.

Cortez I think you should invite us all to move into your paradise - where you have miles of off road hacking..... some of us mere mortals are not so lucky!
 
The only thing that might concern me in the situation described is the lack of politeness. Other than that, what she wears is no business of anyone else unless it is liable to cause harm e.g. by being hard to see. Furthermore, it isn't forbidden to film in public places, so that wouldn't bother me either. It wouldn't grate my bell (lovely phrase :)). I might think it was a bit odd or neurotic, but I would keep those thoughts to myself and I certainly wouldn't start a thread on a forum to gather support for my point of view - not that I am accusing OP of doing that of course! ;)
 
Goldenstar said:
Exactly I hate this attitude and what's the pleasure of riding with that attitude in your mind I was thinking about this its like burglars most people take reasonable steps to prevent their house being broken in to .
They lock doors and windows etc some might get an alarm some are naturally fearful and puts bars on windows etc etc and live in fear and misery in a fortress and some like one of my mates never even lock their door.
You are seeing the same range of approaches to risk in this debate .
Cyclists are interesting in my experiance far more of them expect the other road users to amend their driveing to accommodate them than I have ever seen from riders cyclists are much more likely to be aggressive and selfish.
As for posting footage on the Internet I think that's appalling if you must wear a hat cam and think an offence has been committed go to the police .Reading threads on here gives IMO a false view of the true situation the vast percentage of drivers are good wear some high viz to ensure the drivers can see you in poor conditions and then spend some time learning to ride better so you can maitain your postion in emergency and train your horse better but we don't see threads about that do we.
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Hi-viz should be worn what ever the conditions as they can change at any time during your ride. The attitude and ability of car drivers has changed drastically over the last 30 years and that includes, sadly a fair few horse owners. I have experienced people I know to ride horses approach me on country lanes far too fast for the visibility and conditions then instead of slowing to due to narrow lanes they carry on by mounting the grass verge in their 4x4
I am an experienced rider and rode reliable well mannered horses, whilst wearing hi-viz I was hit by an elderly driver. I believe my riding ability saved my life as witnesses said I managed to ride my horse as he was hit and taken over the front of the car, only coming off when he landed the other side shattering his shoulder and pitching to the floor; my horse however was not as lucky as me and was PTS due to the extend of his injuries.
I resent some of the comments that the rider may be being overly cautious due to an accident. There is nothing overly cautious about making your horse as visible as possible and no one is safe from bad driving and people that have no regard for life but you can reduce the risk by making yourself visible, ensuring you learn to ride effectively, have well mannered safe horses, avoid high risk roads and always be polite to reduce the resentment that is increasing towards horses on the road.
 
I really don't think there is such a thing as "too much" hi-viz.

Loads of cyclists have helmet cams, so why can't we?
I think one guy got the police involved after an accident and won his case!

I wish I'd had one when I was walking Ned over to his new home. A cyclist decided to wiz past me (coming from behind) as a van was coming the other way! If Ned had taken fright, or kicked, he could have gone under the van! Thankfully Ned is really good with such things and didn't even look.

I am 100% with you with the rude woman though. I was stuck for AGES behind 3 ignorant women, who were riding side-by-side along a fast, narrow 60mph road!! They didn't move over or even really look back. One was riding with her feet out of her stirrups and leaning back, pulling on her horses mouth.

Did I get a thank you? Ha! Yea, right.
 
DabDab said:
And as for posting videos on the internet :rolleyes:- keep the footage and if an offence has been committed then show it to the police (in the same way that cyclists and bus drivers and taxi drivers etc. do).
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Goldenstar said:
As for posting footage on the Internet I think that's appalling if you must wear a hat cam and think an offence has been committed go to the police .
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What are you on about :confused:
Many people post videos online of their hacks, no-one that I can see (and I've gone back through the thread) has mentioned posting possible offences online... of course those recordings would go to the police. I don't understand the rollyeyes because other people want to post hack clips online, bit judgemental...
 
I won't go out hacking without my high viz tabard on and my horses four high viz leg bands at the very least full stop. I have a hat band that is high viz too. When its foggy or the weathers dull i also have high viz sheet i put on. I have to hack down country lanes so its inbuild in me to be very aware on the roads. In actual fact the only comments i have ever had are positive ones from walkers and drivers alike stating that its so nice to be able to see a horse rider so clearly on the road..and i agree. You can wear flashing christmas lights on your head if you like.. i think its far better to be seen than not and god forbid anything awful did happen on the road i'd be sure i'd done everything to be seen safely.. the roads are a dangerous place. As for the camera.. footage of not so considerate drivers, or just a nice momento of the days hack.. completely up to them i'd say!
 
sodapop said:
Hi-viz should be worn what ever the conditions as they can change at any time during your ride. The attitude and ability of car drivers has changed drastically over the last 30 years and that includes, sadly a fair few horse owners. I have experienced people I know to ride horses approach me on country lanes far too fast for the visibility and conditions then instead of slowing to due to narrow lanes they carry on by mounting the grass verge in their 4x4
I am an experienced rider and rode reliable well mannered horses, whilst wearing hi-viz I was hit by an elderly driver. I believe my riding ability saved my life as witnesses said I managed to ride my horse as he was hit and taken over the front of the car, only coming off when he landed the other side shattering his shoulder and pitching to the floor; my horse however was not as lucky as me and was PTS due to the extend of his injuries.
I resent some of the comments that the rider may be being overly cautious due to an accident. There is nothing overly cautious about making your horse as visible as possible and no one is safe from bad driving and people that have no regard for life but you can reduce the risk by making yourself visible, ensuring you learn to ride effectively, have well mannered safe horses, avoid high risk roads and always be polite to reduce the resentment that is increasing towards horses on the road.
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I never said making your self visible was being overly cautious .
The sad example you experianced shows exactly what I was saying hi viz is only a part of staying safe on the roads a much bigger part is is becoming a strong well balanced rider who can cope with the unexpected and react quickly and having well trained horses.
Thankfully being hit by a car is a relatively rare occurrence , and not all these accidents will have been caused by the driver some will will be caused by horses spooking into traffic something the driver can do nothing about but we can .
My OHs car was hit by a horse he was passing slowly waved past by a group of stationary horses on a country road one horse in the middle of the group reversed out of the group reared and sat on my OHs car which was stationary as my Oh stopped as soon as he the horse start to move .
Luckily the horse was unhurt and the rider too but it cost the rider a new wing for a range rover and they were not insured so It was an expensive hack for them.
Concerntrating on these threads do only on the hi viz arguments in road safety is only to look at a tiny part of the problem.
 
the only thing to get ones back up about this scenario is that the rider failed to acknowledge and thank the driver
 
Venevidivici said:
Ignorant rider-should get a shuffle on if people waiting and always thank considerate drivers.
Never seen that on a jacket-I think most drivers won't know what it means,as won't have time to see and clock the helmet cam.
Many cyclists use helmet cams as rta's and near-misses involving them are so common. Lots of every day drivers in Russia use dash cameras cos the driving (and subsequent suing!)is quite lawless! Perhaps it's the way forward for horse riders-it'll mean payback for all those twonky boy-racers who speed past your horse with an inch to spare...:(
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Yes definitely just boy racers isn't it. I mean it would be unthinkable for doddery old bitches to possibly drive badly. :mad:
 
oh you meant the ones who seem to not even notice you are there with tunnel vision, and squeeze past your stirrup while you are on top of a motorway bridge, or forget that their caravan is wider than their car...... I quite like the boy racers ;)
 
The two riders I know who excessively plaster themselves and horses in hi viz are so nervous that they really shouldn't be riding on the roads at all.

Hi viz is an aid to preventing accidents, it isn't a magical protective force shield.

Just when the embarrassing Polite hi viz was disappearing, we now have blooming vests proclaiming CCTV in operation.

Hi viz in moderation along with a cheery wave and smile and a well controlled horse does far more to educate and gain co operation from motorists than threatening messages on hi viz.

Unless we treat other road users with consideration, we'll find hostility and intolerance from the public increases. Its not out of the realms of possibility that, in the interests of health and safety, horses find themselves being banned on some roads by local councils. We need the public on our side.

Also, if hi viz becomes so ridiculed, this will put off younger riders from wearing it.
 
Buds_mum said:
Um, am just wondering re. this.

OK on the surface of it, it may have seemed to you as a driver that she was "ambling slowly" towards you, BUT you might not have been aware of the road surface she was riding on??? There are some roads where they're using black-top tarmac which is as slippery as a skunk's bum and awful to ride on:(, so she might just have been being sensible and not trotting on because of this?

I would be inclined NOT to judge the rider concerned until you've had the chance to have a look at the road surface in question TBH OR had a look around generally, i.e. there may have been a herd of cows the other side of the hedge which were hooning around and spooking her horse, or something daft like a sweet wrapper even. TBH I think its a bit unfair to make this sort of assumption without knowing all the facts.

When I ride out with a friend, there are places where its OK to trot on and get out the way for traffic on the lanes, BUT also places where not because of either the gradient OR slippery surface. In fact we had a conversation the other day about this, i.e. it looking like to cars like we were dawdling along, and drivers not understanding that you can't trot down a 1-in-5 tarmac'd/slippery hill to get out their way PDQ!!!
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Or you have a horse rehabbing after an injury that you would rather not trot, I have felt a bit awkward in said situation but horse has come first.
 
For me, this post is an interesting snapshot of what life is like in the UK today. Where I live (rural Ireland) we have no CCTV anywhere and the thought of being constantly under surveillance is very disturbing. As is the idea that this is perfectly normal and somehow "OK".
 
This sounds like a little too much! In summer I usually just stick with a fluorescent jacket and some reflective leg bands on my horses boots. But in winter a fluorescent jacket and a reflective exercise sheet.
Think the CCTV is a bit much!! Though initially a good idea if you're in an accident.

Yet on sunday I was out in my trailer on the way to my instructors yard for a lesson, it was a really bright sunny day but there were loads of lanes we had to go down which had lots of trees which made it very shady, we were crawling along (literally 10mph) as the road was poor and 2 dark bay horses and riders with dark clothing appear out of no where on a straight bit of road as we didn't see them in the shadows! if we were going at the speed limit, 60mph, there could have easily been an accident. Little bit worrying, as I know it's the riders choice and it's not compulsory but we would have seen them from 300/400 yard away rather than the last 100 yards. Yes it doesn't prevent accidents, but makes things a lot easier for both parties involved.
 
I like the riders that like to plaster themselves in POLITE gear and can't say thankyou or manage a smile at the very least to acknowledge when you've pulled over or passed slowly.... Now that's not very POLITE.
 
Has to be said its not always possible to wave if you need to hands for steering purposes! If I take my right hand off the reins to wave at a car I risk my horse going in that direction because of the subtle weight aid...... Also some peoples horses may be spooky etc.

I do my best to smile and do a big head nod for those who slow down, those who dont get nothing.

I have recently had the scenario of a car waiting for my to reach them to get out of the way but I couldnt trot as horse is recovering from a suspensory ligament issue.... a little tolerance folks?!
 
According to a thread several years ago now, at least one driver who caused an accident with a horse has got away with it because they counter claimed against the rider saying the horse misbehaved. I am only waiting for the headcam to drop a little more in price before I use one myself.

OP, I would have spoken to that rider and explained politely that I had failed to see her thankyou gesture, so she needs to make it a bit clearer. It might shame her into doing the right thing next time.
 
Must be great for those clever people who don't have to use a road to hack anywhere, most of us plebs have no choice but to use roads and bridges to get to any hacking area's, a sign has just gone up recently on the Canal we "were" using, saying no horses or cyclists !!!!! , which has had riders on for the last 23 years or more, needless to say I saw a cyclist on it only yesterday, but there was no consultation, so it puts us straight onto the road now, not our fault, but then we ain't rich enough to live right next to off road hacking, so roads it must be.
 
horserider said:
The two riders I know who excessively plaster themselves and horses in hi viz are so nervous that they really shouldn't be riding on the roads at all.

Hi viz is an aid to preventing accidents, it isn't a magical protective force shield.

Just when the embarrassing Polite hi viz was disappearing, we now have blooming vests proclaiming CCTV in operation.

Hi viz in moderation along with a cheery wave and smile and a well controlled horse does far more to educate and gain co operation from motorists than threatening messages on hi viz.

Unless we treat other road users with consideration, we'll find hostility and intolerance from the public increases. Its not out of the realms of possibility that, in the interests of health and safety, horses find themselves being banned on some roads by local councils. We need the public on our side.

Also, if hi viz becomes so ridiculed, this will put off younger riders from wearing it.
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I think that there are a few that see Hi Viz for something it isn't, it is no excuse to ride in the middle of the road or to ride out in incredibly poor visibility imo, and it will be a matter of time before the flood gates open for people claiming accidents weren't their fault just simply because they were wearing Hi Viz.

Pedantic said:
Must be great for those clever people who don't have to use a road to hack anywhere, most of us plebs have no choice but to use roads and bridges to get to any hacking area's, a sign has just gone up recently on the Canal we "were" using, saying no horses or cyclists !!!!! , which has had riders on for the last 23 years or more, needless to say I saw a cyclist on it only yesterday, but there was no consultation, so it puts us straight onto the road now, not our fault, but then we ain't rich enough to live right next to off road hacking, so roads it must be.
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I don't not ride on roads because I am clever or because I think you're a pleb, I don't ride on most roads because I don't trust every other road user not to cause an accident which would involve me and the horse. I understand I still have a right to ride on the road, and I would open up my hacking options a lot more if I did, but I personally just would not take the risk, Hi Viz, or no Hi Viz.
 
A helmet cam is something I have been considering for a while, precisely so that, if there ever were an incident whilst I was out solo, I would have some video back-up. I dislike the idea of doing it but when you've had a couple of near misses where you've known the driver and reported them to the police only to be fobbed off with "your word against theirs" it seems perhaps prudent (I even wrote a strong letter to the guy who was used to do work on the yard I was at at the time and the impudent b*st*rd took letter to the yard owner, laughing and asking why her liveries couldn't get enough of him). As for the tabard, I'm sure I read somewhere (some time ago mind you) that if filming for evidence-gathering purposes you must inform those who may be filmed. It's something I meant to ask police-officer acquaintances but keep forgetting to do.
 
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