Do those on full livery really know what goes on?

[ChestnutConvert]

As a YO and main person that works there except my OH i can't imagine doing that to anyone's horse no matter what livery they are paying. If i wouldn't do it to my own then it wouldn't happen to another, and if any temp staff i had did anything lie that (although i trust the people i can call on) they would straight out of a job and worse.

 

[Mancha]

This doesn't surprise me at all sadly, i worked full time on a yard that i know a few members of the forum keep their horses at, the way the horses were treated was appauling and i had to leave. 1 member of the forum did find out how her horse was being treated (she made a thread on here anonymously) but she decided to stay. The other members have no idea! I would love to tell them but sadly don't feel it is my place and i know i can't name and shame on here. They don't know i'm on here or that i worked there so i am safe!!
After working at this yard i will NEVER have a horse on any more than assisted diy livery.

 

[Tnavas]

I must have been soo lucky the yard I kept several horses on over a 10 year period were fantastic - the horses were always really well cared for and everything done as per contract. I was mostly DIY but there were times when work meant that I had to work very long hours and I couldn't get up to the yard for almost a month. My mare was spottlesly clean, bed immaculate, tack cleaned and more than happy with her.

I also worked at the yard for many years as well, part time and weekends and know from first hand experience that all the horses were cared for excellently. Even to the point all were hoof oiled before leaving yard for exercise and staff in hacking jackets.

One time I had a problem a different yard - very short term stay when I found horse in filthy bed and cut that was supposed to be ressed twice daily hadn't been done. Horse only there for four days! Moved her to my earlier yard.

Yards I've worked on as well have also been excellent.

 

[littlemisslauren]

I work on a yard and it makes me so sad to read stories like the OPs. We genuinely treat every horse on the yard like our own. An owner could turn up at any point and I would be happy to let them nosey on the yard.

OK sometimes it looks like a dump in the middle of the day.... but its damn shiny by mid afternoon. Sometimes owners may turn up and their horse may have scoffed all his hay and be stood with nothing but they understand we feed according to weight and condition rather than adlib (not my choice). They ALL have thick deep clean straw beds everyday, clean water and are all toasty warm. We manage turnout groups carefully and get them out as much as we can.

 

[Honey08]

I agree - there are a lot of very good yards around for full livery, you've just got to find the right one. I've got pretty high standards (I have mine at home) but most of my standards come from things that I've learned at yards that I've worked on. I know of a few livery yards locally that I would put my horses on without batting an eyelid.

 

[SarahRicoh]

i have mine on diy but trust by ym to look after him if i went away/couldnt get up. i have helped her with the full livery horses and they are very well looked after and id be more than happy for her to look after mine if i needed full livery- a rare thing it seems!

 

[Kenzo]

All the reasons why I have mine on DIY, that said, I do underdstand why some of us require full livery due to our lifestyles.

OP I'd refuse to pay the full amount, certainly would kick up a stink, that's discraceful....8 wheel barrows, was the horse on deep litter for a few weeks?

The key is finding a YO that has a passion for horses as well as taking pride in their business, not just money makers.

Ive discovered some horrors on a competition yard, 2 yards actually that I've visited and that's just from a visit! what the hell are people doing that keep their horses there, turning a blind eye or walking round with them shut I think.

 

[Ginger Bear]

I've never had my boy on full livery, but my mum had her mare on it. We found that at our old yard the yo tried to cut corners to save money with our horses where as her own were living the life of luxury! We had skimpy thin beds, hay 'by weight and condition of horse' which left her tb mare deopping weigt and A few times water was forgotten! On our new yard we're both on diy so not sure of the full livery services to comment but no-one looks after ur horse like u do!!

 

[millitiger]

That's why you need to research very thoroughly!

Mine have been on full livery for nearly 2 years now and the YO is excellent. No corners are ever cut, the care is 2nd to none and all of the horses are treated as individuals.

However, I did look for a suitable yard for about 6 months before moving and visited a lot of yards I discarded on 'gut feeling' as well as about 90% I rang about and didn't even bother to go and view as they weren't suitable.

I have very high standards and expectations having had the horses at home before and having worked in some very good yards when I was younger- I have yet to find a bad livery yard but I am extremely picky about where they go in the first place!

 

[muffinmunsh]

I had a similar problem with a yard and moved as quickly as I could to the yard I am at the moment, which is actually an assisted DIY yard... I just arranged it as full livery with the YM. Moved to a full livery yard with better t/o for some time but they were cheating on the bed (charged for 3 bales, only put in 2 with the 3rd going on their own med etc). I ended up moving back to the assisted DIY. Trust the YM fully. He actually calls when there is even a minor change to their routine, arranges all my deliveries and leaves documents etc for me to check... A great guy. If only the facilities were a tad better it would be perfect! I am not planning to move again though... Rather stick out the winter!

 

[Maddie2412]

I don't think I would trust anyone to look after my horse on full livery you just don't know what goes on. And no disrespect to your friend (I don't know her situation) but I don't understand people that have horses on full livery if I had all the money in the world I would still keep my horse on diy. I used to work on a livery yard and the horse owners would come up once a year! Not saying thats what your friend does but just saying there are a lot of people out there that just seem to dump the horse on full livery and don't ever see it! Those are the people I don't understand!
.

I agree with the possible negative but some people dont have the time for DIY I have to go to school in london split my time between my 2 parents and work in order to pay for my horse. My parents bought me my horse and we got an exracer as they didnt want to spend a huge amount but he has to be exercised regularly and I dont have the time to care for him to the standard i want. My YO is faultless and I would trust her with anything in the world. She is amazing and an absolute life saver when i get the chance i spend all day there ever day all the beds are pulled right down, the horses follow a strict routine all ridden well and fairly such a shame more can't behave like this gives full livery a very bad name.

 

[custard]

Tell her to check the local Trading Standards web page and aslo google the offence of 'bilking' because I think I'm right in saying that livery is a service, much like getting your hair done, a meal out, or using a taxi. The law protecting people who provide such a service is slightly different to theft, just in case the YO cuts funny about payment. So, if she offers to pay what she thinks the service was worth for the last month, say the cost of feed/bedding materials along with a written complaint detailing what she found, I don't see what the YO can do if she stops the standing order. If they get funny about giving her notice etc etc then surely she also has a valid complaint about their breach of contract?

 

[noblesteed]

I know a yard close to where I used to live, where my loan mare was. Her owner worked at the yard so her two horses were well cared for. However a whole host of naughty things went on with the full-liveries. This was a very well-respected yard too run by a very astute and silver-tongued businesswoman! She never made much money though it seemed - perhaps because she didn't get return business...
At feeding time all feeds supplements etc went in ONE wheelbarrow which was wheeled round every stable and all horses fed from the same barrow! Regardless of the diet they were on - owners didn't know because they saw their feed going down so assumed their horse was eating it...
Horses left for days not mucked out properly until the day before the owner was coming. One of the liveries moved because she came back from holiday to find a network of tunnels made by RATS in her shaving banks!!!
Haynets HAD to be done by YO who weighed every single one meticulously - so you can imagine how much haylage the full liveries got...
Horses who were there for breaking/schooling were ridden in the school a few times a week by the stable girls - YO never even sat on them. The stable girls were paid a pittance on the apprentice scheme and didn't have much in the way of instruction either - not capable of correctly schooling a horse in any way.
At one point the girl who owned my loan horse went away for a weekend - YO had to actually do some work and brought girls big young mare in - mare played up for her and so she tied it tightly up to the ring in her stable so she couldn't move her head. Then left her like that for several hours and didn't feed her. "That'll teach it to behave" she said.
It was dreadful - customers were paying to have their horses professionally produced and they weren't being.
She was also getting people to pay her for the farrier and vet and she would sort it all out - then people were getting vet bills and farrier bills! Several of our local farriers won't shoe her horses any more because they are owed money.
In the end she actually took money from the girl I was loaning from so we moved yards!!!!

 

[shellonabeach]

When I was at school my horse was on full .livery, the first place was a stud and he was treated the same as their horses. I only left there because they didn't turn out in winter and he was throwing me off every weekend in the winter (he was only 5) and this was over 12 years ago now. It wasn't how I would like him kept now only because he prefers to live out!

I then had him on full livery at a couple of other places. First I was told by a friend several years later didn't take great care of him when I went to uni, dirty bed, rugs not changed etc but she did say made sure he was sorted out when she went up (I still feel guilty about this). Next yard was a private owner with 4 horses of her own, food wise couldn't fault her except she used to give him a huge bucket of food twice a day and he was out of work at the time and she didn't take the wet out of the bed so it was soaking wet (hers were kept the same) but he got plenty of hay and turnout. My mum would go once and week and check on him.

Last full livery yard was wonderful except for the yard owners fear of leaving horses out when she wasn't home or at night so they didn't get much turnout as she worked part time. However the bed was always spotless, horse groomed and even exercised at no additional cost and if it weren't for the fact he hates being stabled would have been perfect. She has a heart of gold and I owe a lot to her

I then moved onto a yard as a DIY livery and a friend had her horse on full livery at the same place. What I saw was he had a thin often dirty bed as he was filthy in the box, he would eat his hay in a couple of hours and be without all night and he was allowed to let himself in and out to the field (16hh cob) and so his manners became non-existant on the ground. Final straw came when YO overstocked the fields so there was no grass and made it so we couldn't put hay out for them by moving her COPD horse into the same field as ours. We then started stabling at night (summer) so they could have hay only YO would turn my full livery friends horse back out after she had gone home to avoid mucking out / using hay.

I rent my own yard and have friends who I trust to care for my horses as I care for them myself should I ever be unable to do it myself, and in return I would do the same for them. They look after the horses exactly as they are used to being looked after.

 

[smellsofhorse]

Complain say the this us not how a horses should be kept.
Move the horse straight away but fight for the money.

Really there is no excuse that is good enough.

 

[ruby1512]

Can't you reverse a direct debit? I would contact the bank to see whether she can get her months rent back that way, it's disgusting I would see them in hell!!!

 

[FMM]

That is disgraceful - speak to your bank straight away to try to sort it out.
If not, then put a claim into small claims court - even if you fail, it will make them think twice. I would, however, speak to your new YO first and see what they suggest. If you do not tell them what is going on, they may well receive a call from your old YO telling them all sorts of tales about you and could make life tricky.

From our perspective - we have around 25-30 horses on the yard - a mix of our own and livery horses in for production. They are ALL treated the same - makes no difference whether they are owned by us or not - they represent our yard and therefore they all get the best possible care. We always have at least one member of staff on the yard 24/7 and nights during the winter is usually completed around 9pm (where water and rugs are done for EVERY horse). Mucking and skipping out is done two or three times a day (depending on whether the horse is in or out).

I am always horrified to hear things like this - people who do not care about horses do not have any right to run a yard or work with animals. The problem is, they likely don't look after their own animals any better than their liveries.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

Can't you reverse a direct debit? I would contact the bank to see whether she can get her months rent back that way, it's disgusting I would see them in hell!!!

The bank can only reverse a direct debit while it is still going through the system, not once it had reached the payee account. However only big companies are part of the direct debit scheme, so imagine this is standing order if its a fixed amount/date each month and to an individual or small company. Same rules applies re reversing it tho, so if its more than the day after it goes from her account, it's probably too late to reverse and she will have to pursue repayment from the payee. I agree with the poster who suggested calculating what a reasonable charge should be and writing to advise this and require repayment of the remainder. NB did she pay a deposit, if so she should be including this itemised in the list too. If the YO doesnt cough up one or both I would advise that it will be pursued via small claims.

One good thing if it is a standing order is that your friend can just cancel it with her bank, whereas with a direct debit she needs to cancel at her end AND cancel it in writing with the company.

Often disagreements between YOs and clients are a story with two sides but where the client is paying for specific services and they arent being provided to the detriment of the horses welfare, then to me thats unforgiveable.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Is it a BHS registered yard? If so, would suggest she contacts them and gets them to do an unannounced spot check

Is this a joke, there is one inspector for the whole of Scotland and they issue certificates without a visit. My horse was at a BHS "approved " yeard, the arena was unusable, and the YO brought my horse in and left him in a heavy rug [against my instructions] so that he was dripping with sweat all night and all morning. The "excellent hacking" was a mile long tarmac road.

 

[Miss L Toe]

I agree with the possible negative but some people dont have the time for DIY I have to go to school in london split my time between my 2 parents and work in order to pay for my horse. My parents bought me my horse and we got an exracer as they didnt want to spend a huge amount but he has to be exercised regularly and I dont have the time to care for him to the standard i want. My YO is faultless and I would trust her with anything in the world. She is amazing and an absolute life saver when i get the chance i spend all day there ever day all the beds are pulled right down, the horses follow a strict routine all ridden well and fairly such a shame more can't behave like this gives full livery a very bad name.

I have been in some yards which offered full livery, and to be honest, in one the YM 's colt nearly died [long story involving fencing and not checking], then got lice [bad management or what?], no way would I have trusted these people to look after my horse, but if I was on site regiularly I would know what was happening.
My current YO would do exactly as I wanted and we agree, but then i am a very particular owner, i would pay extra for any extra that I want eg bedding and exercise.

 

[SavingGrace]

How awful for you

 

[Gingerwitch]

Horse now moved - i went to move him for her, that was why she phoned last night.


Not one of the best days horse wise - we got the horse and stuff no problem at all, did not see a sole until we were driving down the private drive and about 3 kids suddenly appeared and were catching in the horses...... nought wrong with that you may say it was half past blinking 11 ! on a beautiful winter day. I asked kate if they were being caught in for the blacksmith or to be ridden - the look on her face said it all as the realisiation suddenly hit her that this appeared to be "normal" catch in time as the horses were starting to congregate around the gates.

Horse now settled in well deep bed - i have told my friend off as she appears to be trying to give him 6 months worth of clean bed and hay at the same time !

I have left here to sort out things financically - she was paying 420 a month including all hard feed and hay but the so went out on the 1st Dec for the current month.

She has had a quiet chat to her new yard owner, and as soon as the yard was mentioned the reply came back - "Ime not surprised youve left"

 

[little_critter]

Given the number of times I've had to top up the bone dry buckets of my YO's own ponies I'm glad I'm not on full livery. It's a shame I have to rely on her if I want a holiday.

 

[samsbilly]

my friend and i were on a yard that claimed it was DIY, but during the week you couldn't get another livery to help you out, they demanded that you paid the yard owners daughter to sort the horses. she always made sure her horses were sorted before the liveries and many weren't turned out till 11am at the earliest. When they were being turned out that late they were not given any extra hay till they were turned out. they were never mucked out properly and there beds were vile. she kept a youngster that was being bitted in its stable for days on end with its bit in!! my friend had to work away a lot so was having to pay them to look after her horse. she found out that her horse had been in for over 12 hours with out hay! we have since moved to a lovely little yard and help each other out. i would never use a full livery yard as i find it hard to trust people with my lad. i get so cross shearing the horror stories that are still coming out of this yard. I am in the wiltshire area and would be happy to name it to anyone who wants to know. pm me

 

[Wundahorse]

I was chatting to a girl in the line up of a showing class,and she told me a horror story about her last yard,a well known big yard near Maidstone.Her 19 year old TB/WB was on full livery because her job takes her away from home. Apparently the yard barely fed the horse,turned him out in the snow in a lightweight,and kept him on a dirty,sparse bed.Lucky she came home for Christmas,as without an immediate intervention the horse would have died.She was paying top dollar too.

 

[Marydoll]

I was chatting to a girl in the line up of a showing class,and she told me a horror story about her last yard,a well known big yard near Maidstone.Her 19 year old TB/WB was on full livery because her job takes her away from home. Apparently the yard barely fed the horse,turned him out in the snow in a lightweight,and kept him on a dirty,sparse bed.Lucky she came home for Christmas,as without an immediate intervention the horse would have died.She was paying top dollar too.

Without doubt i would take legal action against someone like this, and do my best to close them down, that is disgraceful.
The sooner licensing comes in the better, and im not even on a livery yard although i have been in the past.
Anyone with some land and barns can set up, call themselves a livery and they wouldnt know a horse from a llama, does my bloody nut in.
Then said folk start changing the goal posts of whats agreed to ludicrus things.
Worst i ever heard was a barrell of water could be used for a week to soak haynets, from an eejit who couldnt pick a horse out in a line up of animals

 

[Wagtail]

Always check under the rugs too. A friend of mine had her horse on full livery at a yard and did not ride for 6 weeks due to an operation on her knee. When she finally removed her horses rugs she was stunned to see he was all skin and bone. She later found out that whilst she was paying over £400 month on livery, her horse was receiving just one net a day of mouldy hay whilst the owners show jumpers were being fed top notch haylage.

 

[Wagtail]

This is a difficult subject really. especially as a livery owner myself. I don't want to put people off going on full or part livery as there really are some fabulous yards run by really nice, honest people. But as I say, I have heard many horror stories, from owners paying for their horses to be exercised and finding that they are not, to the above starvation example I mentioned.

As a yard owner, I am not keen on strange people turning up unannounced, not because I have anything to hide, but because I am wary of any strangers just turning up to premises in case they are casing the place. It puts me off people who do this immediately, although I understand why they do it but it always makes me think they will be inconsiderate clients and so I have not taken on anyone who turns up unannouced.

However, I do think that once you have started at a livery it is a good thing to turn up at unexpected times occasionally. This will give you a truer idea of whether your horse is being cared for to your standards. I have no problem at all with this as once someone is my livery client it is their right to turn up at any time without prior notice.

 

[whiteclover]

Ive never been on full livery only diy and doubt I ever would. It doesnt surprise me as some yo's are only interested in the money and not the welfare of the horse.

 

[.Redmerl]

Yard I'm at is lovely And I'm on full livery. But I still go daily, top up if need to. Full livery for me is a basis, I do the extras when required. I'm lucky that even tho he is on full I'm still there every day! My back just can't cope with mucking out