Do you agree or disagree that a qualification should be mandatory for owning a horse?

Do you agree or disagree that a qualification should be mandatory for owning a horse?

  • Strongly Agree

    Votes: 19 18.8%

  • Agree

    Votes: 13 12.9%

  • Neither Agree nor Disagree

    Votes: 9 8.9%

  • Disagree

    Votes: 38 37.6%

  • Strongly Disagree

    Votes: 22 21.8%
  • Total voters
    101
Plenty of people who have sat PC and BHS exams go on to get injured by horses. No exam can make someone capable of handling a horse that's going rogue - most of staying safe while handling horses is about reading the horse's subtle behaviour and responding appropriately to that. It isn't something you could reasonably teach in the manner you're suggesting.

I'm not sure where you are that there's a shortage of instructors with qualifications. In the UK, there are huge numbers of BHS AIs (or their newer counterparts) and UKCC qualified coaches. They're not necessarily better with horses than their unqualified counterparts - the variation is enormous in all spheres.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
To add, I've said it before, but a YO offering livery should have a licence.
If WHW campaigned for this, it might be eventually workable.

If horses at livery were to come under the Boarding of Animals Act, then some equines might just have a better life?
Click to expand...
This definitely! Including for DIY livery yards.
 
WrongLeg said:
I thought The Galop/ German/ Spanish tests were a good example- is it just an online multiple choice question?

I know a lot of dyslexic equestrian professionals: a written test would be very unfair on them.

Where I am from, there is no opportunity to do Pony Club tests. There are many many more entirely preventable equestrian accidents than places with a horse culture.

I think this is mainly because the handler/ rider has not been trained.

Personally, I think an exam like Pony Club Test would prevent avoidable accidents, save us money in NHS admissions alone, could address equine obesity and create a market for qualified instructors - there are not many around here.
Click to expand...
Sorry, maybe I didn't explain very well. The galop exams on the whole are a pretty good idea. There is a separate test to be "allowed" to look after horses.
The French galop exams number from 1 to 9, though most people are content with stopping at 7. The 8 and 9 involve writing a thesis if I'm not mistaken. 1 through 7 involve 3 parts: theoretical test which is normally written but can be done orally instead, horse care / handling, and riding. Galop 4 to 7 you can chose just one or two disciplines like show jumping, dressage, western if you like. Or you can take all three olympian disciplines and get a "riders galop" instead of a "show jumpers galop".
This system works rather well in France, because the majority of people learn in riding schools as opposed to on their own horse at home. You also cannot compete any discipline unless you have a galop 2. The higher up the levels you go, the more galops you need to be allowed to compete. There isn't really such a thing as an unaffiliated show over here.

The extra test to keep a horse seems rather redundant to me, and is apparently very simplistic (as I said, I didn't take it). It's just a box ticking exercise similar to the paper you're supposed to sign 7 days before acquiring any new dog or cat. It basically says you acknowledge your pet has needs like water, food, exercise and medical attention and that having a pet is long term commitment. France still has the worst pet abandonment issues in the summer holidays of Europe.

I think education and incentives (maybe a tax rebate or lower insurance premiums for proving somehow you're a responsible owner) would be more efficient than more red tape.
 
SpeedyPony said:
No- some of the best horsemen I've met have had no formal qualifications, some of the worst had all the BHS exams you could wish for. Tbh a lot of what is taught about keeping horses by boards like the BHS/PC is more geared towards human convenience than animal welfare anyway (that may have changed, it's been a few years since I was in that sphere).
Click to expand...
What about the absolute basics
- how to lead?
- catch?
- tie up (quick release).

Pasture Management -preventing worm resistance- we are heading towards a situation where there will be
no effective wormers.
Titchy Pony said:
Sorry, maybe I didn't explain very well. The galop exams on the whole are a pretty good idea. There is a separate test to be "allowed" to look after horses.
The French galop exams number from 1 to 9, though most people are content with stopping at 7. The 8 and 9 involve writing a thesis if I'm not mistaken. 1 through 7 involve 3 parts: theoretical test which is normally written but can be done orally instead, horse care / handling, and riding. Galop 4 to 7 you can chose just one or two disciplines like show jumping, dressage, western if you like. Or you can take all three olympian disciplines and get a "riders galop" instead of a "show jumpers galop".
This system works rather well in France, because the majority of people learn in riding schools as opposed to on their own horse at home. You also cannot compete any discipline unless you have a galop 2. The higher up the levels you go, the more galops you need to be allowed to compete. There isn't really such a thing as an unaffiliated show over here.

The extra test to keep a horse seems rather redundant to me, and is apparently very simplistic (as I said, I didn't take it). It's just a box ticking exercise similar to the paper you're supposed to sign 7 days before acquiring any new dog or cat. It basically says you acknowledge your pet has needs like water, food, exercise and medical attention and that having a pet is long term commitment. France still has the worst pet abandonment issues in the summer holidays of Europe.

I think education and incentives (maybe a tax rebate or lower insurance premiums for proving somehow you're a responsible owner) would be more efficient than more red tape.
Click to expand...
Thank you for explaining.

Yes, some sort of incentive system for taking something similar to the Galops or Pony Club Tests seems sensible, like not being able to compete in any kind of competition without them.

I could see it helping so many people and horses.
 
rabatsa said:
I have known people with no qualifications I would pass any horse onto, and others with BHS stage 5, Stable Manager who could not manage a field of native ponies.
Click to expand...
I know a YO managing a field of native ponies who failed pass the most basic handling and riding parts of the BHS 1 - and other people who have no qualifications but have all the necessary training & experience to competently fill this role.

Surely, either Qualifications or evidence of professional training should have their place?
 
WrongLeg said:
What about the absolute basics
- how to lead?
- catch?
- tie up (quick release).

Pasture Management -preventing worm resistance- we are heading towards a situation where there will be
no effective wormers.

Thank you for explaining.

Yes, some sort of incentive system for taking something similar to the Galops or Pony Club Tests seems sensible, like not being able to compete in any kind of competition without them.

I could see it helping so many people and horses.
Click to expand...
Regarding anthelmintic resistance, that probably lands in the lap of SQPs/prescribers, I'm not sure that there are many people who don't know about the risks, there are just plenty that don't care. Ticking a box/paying lip service to an exam isn't going to change that.
Regarding learning the basics, again I'm not sure that these are particularly lacking? Also, if you create an exam it's going to have to have one 'accepted' way of doing things, while there are often multiple ways, some better/worse in different situations. You only have to look on here for examples of different yet valid ways of doing things. Some people will always catch with a treat, others consider feeding a horse by hand the height of irresponsibility, some will lead in from the field in a head collar, others wouldn't dream of crossing a road without a bridle.
What is safe and appropriate varies so much- there are horses I always give a treat to when caught, so that I can go on catching them with minimal stress all round. There are others I wouldn't feed by hand as they get nippy. If you had to try and include all these different scenarios in a single test it would take weeks to administer. The sort of test that would end up being used would be the kind of thing that people learned the answers to for the test then immediately ignored once they'd passed.
As certain news items indicate, professionals who should know better are very capable of engaging in mistreatment- ignorance isn't the cause.
I do think a basic first aid course could be useful though, as IME there can be a bit of a knowledge deficit there.
 
SpeedyPony said:
Regarding anthelmintic resistance, that probably lands in the lap of SQPs/prescribers, I'm not sure that there are many people who don't know about the risks, there are just plenty that don't care. Ticking a box/paying lip service to an exam isn't going to change that.
Regarding learning the basics, again I'm not sure that these are particularly lacking? Also, if you create an exam it's going to have to have one 'accepted' way of doing things, while there are often multiple ways, some better/worse in different situations. You only have to look on here for examples of different yet valid ways of doing things. Some people will always catch with a treat, others consider feeding a horse by hand the height of irresponsibility, some will lead in from the field in a head collar, others wouldn't dream of crossing a road without a bridle.
What is safe and appropriate varies so much- there are horses I always give a treat to when caught, so that I can go on catching them with minimal stress all round. There are others I wouldn't feed by hand as they get nippy. If you had to try and include all these different scenarios in a single test it would take weeks to administer. The sort of test that would end up being used would be the kind of thing that people learned the answers to for the test then immediately ignored once they'd passed.
As certain news items indicate, professionals who should know better are very capable of engaging in mistreatment- ignorance isn't the cause.
I do think a basic first aid course could be useful though, as IME there can be a bit of a knowledge deficit there.
Click to expand...
Probably worth noting the veterinary profession were the ones promoting blanket, routine worming; who were handing out antibiotics like smarties - for decades.
You can pass a test to have a driving licence, which behaviour is comparatively well-policed, and no one would ever dream of driving a vehicle irresponsibly, would they?
Might be more beneficial if compulsory training / evidence of competency became necessary before having any human children....just saying.
 
SpeedyPony said:
Regarding anthelmintic resistance, that probably lands in the lap of SQPs/prescribers, I'm not sure that there are many people who don't know about the risks, there are just plenty that don't care. Ticking a box/paying lip service to an exam isn't going to change that.
Click to expand...
We have a tenant who worms before turning out into a new field, (no poo picking 1 horse/3 acres?) out of ignorance.
She’s ‘a professional’ and therefore knows better.
 
I am not sure how this would be enforced.
I have farm animals so my land, and any I rent, has to be registered and all movements of animals on and off have to be recorded, you can be fined if you do not keep accurate records. I know someone who was fined £5000 because they lost a pig, and didn't record it. I have to record medications given and keep records of where I purchase food, because all these animals could end up in human food.
I have had zero training, apart from reading and going on forums, and in the ten years I have had them I have been checked once, and that was just a number count for ear tags, and that's with reams of regulations that livestock holders have to comply with. I have a draw full of paperwork filed.
www.gov.uk

Animal and Plant Health Agency - GOV.UK

We work to safeguard animal and plant health for the benefit of people, the environment and the economy. APHA is an executive agency, sponsored by the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs , the Welsh Government , and The Scottish Government .
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
The local EHO is supposed to check premises where animals are kept,
www.gov.uk

Animal welfare

Advice and guidance on protecting animal welfare.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
With all this legislation eyes checking, unless an animal sees a vet or goes to slaughter is negligible.

The perhaps practice way to improve health welfare is perhaps to have stewards at shows and events that can check animals and disqualify them from competing at that show and any other affiliated show, but they do not even check passports against the animal now, and who would pay for it? The only passports I have ever seen checked at an event routinely are at racecourses, they read the chip on the horse in front of them, because lots of money is involved and racecourse staff are paid.
 
honetpot said:
I am not sure how this would be enforced.
I have farm animals so my land, and any I rent, has to be registered and all movements of animals on and off have to be recorded, you can be fined if you do not keep accurate records. I know someone who was fined £5000 because they lost a pig, and didn't record it. I have to record medications given and keep records of where I purchase food, because all these animals could end up in human food.
I have had zero training, apart from reading and going on forums, and in the ten years I have had them I have been checked once, and that was just a number count for ear tags, and that's with reams of regulations that livestock holders have to comply with. I have a draw full of paperwork filed.
www.gov.uk

Animal and Plant Health Agency - GOV.UK

We work to safeguard animal and plant health for the benefit of people, the environment and the economy. APHA is an executive agency, sponsored by the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs , the Welsh Government , and The Scottish Government .
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
The local EHO is supposed to check premises where animals are kept,
www.gov.uk

Animal welfare

Advice and guidance on protecting animal welfare.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
With all this legislation eyes checking, unless an animal sees a vet or goes to slaughter is negligible.

The perhaps practice way to improve health welfare is perhaps to have stewards at shows and events that can check animals and disqualify them from competing at that show and any other affiliated show, but they do not even check passports against the animal now, and who would pay for it? The only passports I have ever seen checked at an event routinely are at racecourses, they read the chip on the horse in front of them, because lots of money is involved and racecourse staff are paid.
Click to expand...
Don’t forget you have to apply for flock records for hens….When I was asked to take five, yes five unwanted hens..I had to get a flock records….No body has actually visited to check them or the flock records….but it’s a legal requirement…
One passed away, so four now….
 
honetpot said:
I am not sure how this would be enforced.
I have farm animals so my land, and any I rent, has to be registered and all movements of animals on and off have to be recorded, you can be fined if you do not keep accurate records. I know someone who was fined £5000 because they lost a pig, and didn't record it. I have to record medications given and keep records of where I purchase food, because all these animals could end up in human food.
I have had zero training, apart from reading and going on forums, and in the ten years I have had them I have been checked once, and that was just a number count for ear tags, and that's with reams of regulations that livestock holders have to comply with. I have a draw full of paperwork filed.
www.gov.uk

Animal and Plant Health Agency - GOV.UK

We work to safeguard animal and plant health for the benefit of people, the environment and the economy. APHA is an executive agency, sponsored by the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs , the Welsh Government , and The Scottish Government .
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
The local EHO is supposed to check premises where animals are kept,
www.gov.uk

Animal welfare

Advice and guidance on protecting animal welfare.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
With all this legislation eyes checking, unless an animal sees a vet or goes to slaughter is negligible.
Click to expand...

It’s called ‘light regulation’: they hold you responsible and DEFRA come down on you like a ton of bricks if they trace a problem back to your farm.

It means the Govt. can focus their resouces where there is a problem.

honetpot said:
The perhaps practice way to improve health welfare is perhaps to have stewards at shows and events that can check animals and disqualify them from competing at that show and any other affiliated show, but they do not even check passports against the animal now, and who would pay for
Click to expand...


honetpot said:
it? The only passports I have ever seen checked at an event routinely are at racecourses, they read the chip on the horse in front of them, because lots of money is involved and racecourse staff are paid.
Click to expand...
…Racing has lots of cheating (&betting) going on, that’s why it was the 1st Sport to be regulated.
 
WrongLeg said:
It’s called ‘light regulation’: they hold you responsible and DEFRA come down on you like a ton of bricks if they trace a problem back to your farm.

It means the Govt. can focus their resouces where there is a problem.





…Racing has lots of cheating (&betting) going on, that’s why it was the 1st Sport to be regulated.
Click to expand...
There has to be a financial gain/or loss to make any of the regulations worth the time on enforcing, or a human health/welfare problem.
Racing enforces passport checking, there is also a whole lot of rules for training yards to comply with, to enable them to be a part of the gambling industry, and there is a financial incentive.
www.gov.uk

Horserace Betting Levy Board - GOV.UK

The Horserace Betting Levy Board (HBLB) is required to collect a statutory levy, known as the Horserace Betting Levy, from horseracing bookmakers and the Tote successor company which it then distributes for the improvement of horseracing and breeds of horses and for the advancement of veterinary...
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
Food safety and compliance with EU regulations, is more about human health safety and selling products to the EU and some other countries, the welfare standards are part of the outcome, but you could argue its just to provide consumer confidence, like Red Tractor. You could have the highest farm welfare standards and not be fully compliant with Red Tractor.

End Red Tractor

This is the sort of stuff that needs addressing..... Mrs YB has been buying this, 'cos, as she says, "It looks to be British." After watching Wardy's Waffle, last night, I asked her what she was buying. On closer inspection... ...it turns out it's only packed here. After a brief conversation...
thefarmingforum.co.uk thefarmingforum.co.uk

If legislation was passed to enforce a certificate of 'horsemanship or horse management' who would fund it or would it become like horse passport legislation, each competing interest want a piece of a possible profit to become a provider. It would also seem unfair because you could own numerous farm animals and not have to pass any test to own them, you only have to comply with the regulations already in place, and all you need to do is register your holding and get a CPH number.
www.gov.uk

Horse passport issuing organisations in Great Britain and Northern Ireland

List of organisations that issue horse passports in Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
Its doubtful it would generate enough income to provide opportunities for enforcement and we are already in a bit of a legal minefield where animal welfare prosecutions have often been left to the RSPCA, who actually have little practical knowledge of equine management.
 
Last edited:
honetpot said:
The perhaps practice way to improve health welfare is perhaps to have stewards at shows and events that can check animals and disqualify them from competing at that show and any other affiliated show, but they do not even check passports against the animal now, and who would pay for it? The only passports I have ever seen checked at an event routinely are at racecourses, they read the chip on the horse in front of them, because lots of money is involved and racecourse staff are papaid.
Click to expand...
There ARE vets and stewards at many county level shows now, chips checked against passports and passports checked against the horses or ponies. This has been in place for quite a number of years. Again, the same random checks done at BE comps.
Passports are checked at just about every comp at my local competition centres.

There isn't bottomless funds to police unaff little local shows, but I agree that they too should be done too. To my mind, this is where authorities should start plus also multiple sites where welfare has previously been breached whether resulting in confiscation, court or just plain warnings.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
There ARE vets and stewards at many county level shows now, chips checked against passports and passports checked against the horses or ponies. This has been in place for quite a number of years. Again, the same random checks done at BE comps.
Passports are checked at just about every comp at my local competition centres.

There isn't bottomless funds to police unaff little local shows, but I agree that they too should be done too. To my mind, this is where authorities should start plus also multiple sites where welfare has previously been breached whether resulting in confiscation, court or just plain warnings.
Click to expand...
Yes, you have to enter your passport number on the entry form.

When you qualify for HOYS, you have to present the passport to the show secretary, so they can check it with the breed society.
 
I think it should be mandatory to either loan a horse through all seasons first which obviously isn't practical as demand would outweigh sipply.

Or to have to take part in an intensive two day course touching on basics, feeding, leading, tacking up, basic safety, introducing new horse to a herd, common ailments and a talk of potential costs involved.

I know its not the same thing but when I got involved in volunteering for the British Hen Welfare Trust, I learnt as much as I could both second hand from other volunteers and the rehoming centre owners and by reading on line/buying books on chicken keeping before ever taking the plunge, including how to set up their coop/run and manage their feeding and health requirements. Of course there's no substitute for experience and yes, you do make mistakes along the way, but that is how the human learning model works.
 
WrongLeg said:
Yes, you have to enter your passport number on the entry form.

When you qualify for HOYS, you have to present the passport to the show secretary, so they can check it with the breed society.
Click to expand...
I used to steward at shows with qualifiers for HOYS and RI at county level, and its very rare for the chip to checked against the passport with the horse in front of them, when they go in the ring you are checking against entry numbers. I have also been ring steward at higher levels of BD, and never seen a chip check. I am not saying it does not happen but the only information you are given to stewards does not have the chip number, so in theory one bay horse unless you have seen it out before looks pretty much like another.
I did a BHS stewards course many years ago at Stoneleigh, it was mainly about control of the ring and H&S, welfare was hardly mentioned. At one show a horse was so doped coming off the lorry it couldn't stand. I think all shows should a lorry park steward, because that's where where the often unseen abuse takes place, which does not only include animals but sometimes children as well.

When you think about it rider equipment is checked like hats, and tagged to comply with safety regulations for humans, but there seems to be nothing in place for equines that is easily visible. Perhaps colour coded bit rings/shanks would be a start.
 
Last edited:
honetpot said:
I used to steward at shows with qualifiers for HOYS and RI at county level, and its very rare for the chip to checked against the passport with the horse in front of them, when they go in the ring you are checking against entry numbers. I have also been ring steward at higher levels of BD, and never seen a chip check. I am not saying it does not happen but the only information you are given to stewards does not have the chip number, so in theory one bay horse unless you have seen it out before looks pretty much like another.
I did a BHS stewards course many years ago at Stoneleigh, it was mainly about control of the ring and H&S, welfare was hardly mentioned. At one show a horse was so doped coming off the lorry it couldn't stand. I think all shows should a lorry park steward, because that's where where the often unseen abuse takes place, which does not only include animals but sometimes children as well.

When you think about it rider equipment is checked like hats, and tagged to comply with safety regulations for humans, but there seems to be nothing in place for equines that is easily visible. Perhaps colour coded bit rings/shanks would be a start.
Click to expand...
hp, these days they ARE done out in the box park, plenty of time to do this, often at random. It would be madness to do this at the ring - chip check easy, but then passport - and after that the vaccs - by then an unvacc'd horse can be a bigger issue.

Example; One of 6 in the box behind me 3 years ago at RWHS wasn't right (vaccs dates out), unfortunately for the producer this was the 1st horse on the back, so none were allowed to be off loaded and they had 15 mins to leave showground. Rules is rules.
Shows ARE getting tough, far better to prevent unvacc'd or dodgy chipped animals being on the ground
 
honetpot said:
I used to steward at shows with qualifiers for HOYS and RI at county level, and its very rare for the chip to checked against the passport with the horse in front of them, when they go in the ring you are checking against entry numbers. I have also been ring steward at higher levels of BD, and never seen a chip check. I am not saying it does not happen but the only information you are given to stewards does not have the chip number, so in theory one bay horse unless you have seen it out before looks pretty much like another.
I did a BHS stewards course many years ago at Stoneleigh, it was mainly about control of the ring and H&S, welfare was hardly mentioned. At one show a horse was so doped coming off the lorry it couldn't stand. I think all shows should a lorry park steward, because that's where where the often unseen abuse takes place, which does not only include animals but sometimes children as well.

When you think about it rider equipment is checked like hats, and tagged to comply with safety regulations for humans, but there seems to be nothing in place for equines that is easily visible. Perhaps colour coded bit rings/shanks would be a start.
Click to expand...
I know there are checks at some stage - because a breeder managed to get the chips & passports mixed-up-

The mistake was not discovered until the 6yo? qualified for HOYS and they had to trace the other foal to his new home to recover the correct passport.
 
Gloi said:
The ones suffering the worst management don't normally go to shows.
Click to expand...
I think you have to work on what you can control first, these equines are more likely to be out in public, and there is already for affiliated shows some form of paperwork and point of contact..
BS have Stipendiary Stewards
Riders often get money for promoting goods and services, so I assume the advertisers must think they have some level of influence, these are the people that novice owners/riders copy.
www.horseandhound.co.uk

Lynn Russell loses Baileys sponsorship after video goes viral

Showing producer Lynn Russell has lost her long-term sponsor Baileys Horse Feeds after posting a clip of a young cob wearing a training aid on Facebook
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk
Trying to monitor and influence good practice for every equine in every back paddock is expensive and its a huge task and unless like farm animals they are visibly tagged and their holding and movements recorded, and we all have to comply with regulation.
 
I don't think a qualification should be a requirement, but a license should.

Part of the initial license application would require proof of suitability - be that a qualification, or experience evidenced by a trainer, or if no husbandry experience then that the horse was going on full livery whilst they learn - so that someone can't just get a license on a whim. And of course livery yards to be licensed too.

Licensing and passporting systems to be joined up, so that horses can be traced to owner - and if applicable yard owner too - just like cattle can be traced to farms.

Enforcement on all of the above so that poor welfare would lead to removal of license; passporting errors/not changing ownership etc could get driving-license style points or fines to make sure people bothered. Tonne-of-bricks enforcement on unlicensed owners.
 
WrongLeg said:
Exam proposed to own horses – but ‘the best PR is doing the right thing’

Mandatory qualifications to own horses could be one key to welfare and maintaining public acceptance – but all actions should be taken to benefit horses, not for PR.

These were suggestions made at a briefing on the results of World Horse Welfare’s fourth annual survey of the public’s attitudes to involvement of horses in sport, on 3 June.
Click to expand...
Then there should be qualifications for owning a dog, a cat, any livestock, and most of all for having a child.
 
poacher82 said:
Tonne-of-bricks enforcement on unlicensed owners.
Click to expand...
This is the issue. Laws exist already and they aren't a deterrent because even when caught (people ignore it), investigated (powers are limited), prosecuted (no real drive to do this, much more serious crimes don't even get prosecuted), there aren't significant consequences.
 
WrongLeg said:
I know there are checks at some stage - because a breeder managed to get the chips & passports mixed-up-

The mistake was not discovered until the 6yo? qualified for HOYS and they had to trace the other foal to his new home to recover the correct passport.
Click to expand...
Three years ago I bought back a pony that I sold as a three year old, it had a least ten homes judging by its passport, and it had was fairly expensive pony, so I assume it would have been vetted, and had been to large competitions yet it was not microchipped. Even the breed society, as the new owners have to have it updated by them, had not noticed the chip information was missing. What caused its discovery was student vet doing things properly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top