Do you agree with keeping a horse in permanent isolation?

[mandwhy]

No I don't agree with it, I think they can seem OK but there are things other horses contribute to their lives that we can't substitute.

I do believe that there are horses who cant be turned out with others, but I think even they would benefit from others over the fence.

I do think sheep/other animals at least provide something to interact with. Otherwise they would be on their own for so long in the day I think it is wrong,people compare to keeping a dog on their own, well a dog lives in your house, so is with humans all the time they are not at work etc, and some people think longer than 4 hours alone is too much for them!

 

[nativepony]

No!!!

 

[Auslander]

If it's at all possible, I prefer horses to be with other horses. Although he was always close enough to touch other horses over the fence, Alf spent far too much time on his own at my last yard, as the owners wouldn't agree to a slight shift around so that he could be with just one other horse. It was either in with the herd, which included the horse who ran him ragged all day every day, making his suspensory problems worse, or alone.
I couldn't accept this - I bought him to give him a chance, and for him to enjoy being a horse again. He moved a month ago, and the change in him has been fantastic. He's relaxed and happy and bouncy, loves his new friends, and is thoroughly enjoying being out in a group again. He's not cantering down the field whinnying at me when I get there any more, or following me round like a large dog - because he's busy with his horse mates, being a horse. I wouldn't dream of separating him again - he's in his element. Lovely to see.

 

[cptrayes]

I deduce from that - that if a horse doesn't like other horses, something VERY traumatic has happened to it. And that it is therefore condemned to a very unnatural life. Does that sound right ?

I had one that was with his mother until he was a two years old and weaned naturally by the time his two years younger brother arrived. I bought him and backed him at three. Apart from gelding, he was unhandled at that point. He was always a terrible bully to other horses. His half sister, owned by a friend of mine, is the same.

Sometimes I think it's genetic.

I did not keep him on his own but he cost me a fortune in rugs and vet fees. My friend does keep his sister on her own and she seems totally chilled about it. When she had a companion, her old horse, she kicked seven bells out of him for no reason as I was walking past their paddock one day.

I do have another friend who does the same as Wagtails story, keeps her horse alone because he is more affectionate to her when he is on his own. I think that's wrong

 

[FreddiesGal]

and yes they do have hay out...... So how do you know when your horse is happy or unhappy with his lot?

I never said anything about hay. Hay or not that is entirely up to you And I don't, why is why I don't say "he is happier when.." etc

 

[Doormouse]

Odd that this subject should come up as there is a girl at our yard at the moment and she has her horses stabled in a seperate barn from the main livery barn and now she only has one he totally on his own 24/7, currently only goes on the walker once a day due to injury (apparently) is hardly ever turned out and has the doors of the barn shut so that he can't see out.

I think this is very cruel.

 

[tankgirl1]

Just no

Of course a horse that has been hand reared or isolated from weaning is going to behave differently - they haven't learnt the social boundaries and rules, and so will act inappropriately when and if they do meet other horses in a herd environment - that doesn't mean the isolated individual prefers isolation - just that they have to learn the rules, and would probably live a happier life after they HAD learned the rules, and been with other horses!

IMO we should be doing all we can to let youngsters learn the way of the herd - hand rearing is a difficult one, but isolating them from weaning onwards, or for any part of their life thereafter is a huge NO imho

 

[Littlelegs]

That's exactly why I bought the pony as a yearling tankgirl. She was tiny & scrawny enough in the half light I actually thought she was a young foal. She flew at the fence whinnying at us, & raced round, clearly happy to see us but stressed. I knocked on the house adjoining the tiny paddock to tell them their mare had disappeared & foal was stressing. Only to find out that was yearlings life. In all honesty, her mental state moved me far more than her neglected physical state. And the only reason I bought her.

 

[tankgirl1]

That's exactly why I bought the pony as a yearling tankgirl. She was tiny & scrawny enough in the half light I actually thought she was a young foal. She flew at the fence whinnying at us, & raced round, clearly happy to see us but stressed. I knocked on the house adjoining the tiny paddock to tell them their mare had disappeared & foal was stressing. Only to find out that was yearlings life. In all honesty, her mental state moved me far more than her neglected physical state. And the only reason I bought her.

That's really sad to read LL - thank goodness you took her on!

Just shows the genuine unintentional ignorance that can cause real problems in later life.

How is she doing now? Did you ever find out where her mum went to?

 

[NeverSayNever]

Id have said no... however there are exceptions. I had a horse a few years back that been kept alone for many years on a dairy farm. I got him and had him at a busy livery yard and he just didnt cope, he was a nightmare he was so stressed. SO I moved him to a quiet DIY set up on a farm with just another couple of liveries... his own field but company over the fence. He was better but he was still stressy and would race and barge aggressively at fences at times too. The farm was within hacking distance of my house , where I have a paddock and I got into the habit of hacking home, letting him graze while i had a cuppa then hacking back.. and I noticed he was utterly chilled out at home in this paddock, with the cows over the fence who are our neighbours. Eventually I moved him home and my vet even assured me it was the right thing for him.

I tried to do the same with the horse I have now and I lasted 30 mins watching her distress before I knew it wasnt fair on her at all and she now lives contentedly with a mini shettie companion.

 

[ladyt25]

Because they stand at the gates and look bloody miserable, I leave them for as long as possible but when they haven't moved for ages I know they want to come in. It's only in the winter and its only 3 of them, the others are quite happy to be out in all weather. Now it might to how they have been conditioned before getting here. I have one who calls as soon as he sees me or the back door opens and yes they do have hay out...... So how do you know when your horse is happy or unhappy with his lot ?

The thing is, how does a horse 'look' miserable? That is us as humans labelling it as such- of course a horse stands at the gate when you're there - they think Human = Food!

The thing is when you're not there you don't see them then wandering away from the gate and doing their own thing. Mine will call to me quite often when i appear at the field (because he things "ooh, food!"). If a horse has company, food, water and adequate shelter then why would they be 'miserable'?

My sister's horse will often stand at the gate when we're about at the stables and I guess the way he looks at you could be seen as pathetic/miserable. Thing is, the minute we get in the car and leave, off he potters back to his pals! They're not daft, they kno how to work us soft humans!

 

[FfionWinnie]

Fifers might know of the grey pony in a field near Knockhill racing circuit. He has been there, by himself, forever. Never seen anyone at him (but I know the SSPCA have been called numerous times and someone does own him/look after him). He is just in a reedy field by himself, all the time. He is not as far as I know ridden, and he is always there. He looks healthy and doesn't look ancient. I always wonder why he is there by himself. I assumed he was a rigg but I would really like to know if anyone knows.

 

[Littlelegs]

Thanks tankgirl. To all intents & purposes she's normal now ( was 5 this summer). But when you watch her closely interacting with others in the same herd except my mare, she's not quite got normal reactions. She submits to nothing, even when physically made to back off she will run, but then waits for the other to relax its guard & goes back for more. Uses my mare as a bodyguard! When neither my mare or people she trusts are around, she will still attack anything viewed as a threat. So anyone/anything approaching her on her territory. Or anyone trying to force her to do something. For all that though, its rare these days. And she is by far the most suited pony to my daughter I could imagine. Nowadays to witness her doing all the normal kids pony stuff, you wouldn't know she had a bad start. But, for instance, last set of jabs, vet was a new one who's first words were 'get back' on entering the stable, & she flew at him.
Not sure what happened to dam. Mrs idiot got dam as free to good home because she would look cute in the tiny paddock that came with the house. Dam foaled a few months later, then died 3mnths after ours was born. Given the physical state of paddock, & yearling it could have been starvation. Or something else owners never noticed. 'she died' is all they told me. I did involve the rspca, but no idea if anything came of it, despite my vet reporting separately after seeing yearlings physical state when I'd got her home.

 

[kty82]

Well said meesha!!! They're kept in their individual paddocks/ stabled 24/7 due to owners needs not horses. My horse loves coming in? Load of rubbish, they come in for food!!! I know for a fact if I left my stable door open, my mare would eat her dinner and be off looking for the next patch of juicy grass!

 

[coffeeandabagel]

I was a Thelwell kid - scruffy kid on a scruffy pony. In fact a succession of progressively bigger scruffy ponies. All well fed, clipped lightly, rugged, shod and well exercised (galloped round the footpaths and fields). Howeve they all lived alone. My mum wasnt horsy but I was a PC member and read horsey books. However nothing I was ever told it was wrong for my pony to be alone and it never crossed our minds. Said pony saw my best friend's pony at weekends - we usually stayed at one or the other's house for the weekend so they were together then for the 2 days but alone at home the rest of the time.
Cant remember any signs of them not being happy ponies. Now I wouldnt dream of it but horse understanding has progressed a lot since I was a kid!

 

[starryeyed]

No I don't agree with it, I think they can seem OK but there are things other horses contribute to their lives that we can't substitute.

I do believe that there are horses who cant be turned out with others, but I think even they would benefit from others over the fence.

I do think sheep/other animals at least provide something to interact with. Otherwise they would be on their own for so long in the day I think it is wrong,people compare to keeping a dog on their own, well a dog lives in your house, so is with humans all the time they are not at work etc, and some people think longer than 4 hours alone is too much for them!

Agree!!

 

[morrismob]

The thing is, how does a horse 'look' miserable? That is us as humans labelling it as such- of course a horse stands at the gate when you're there - they think Human = Food!

The thing is when you're not there you don't see them then wandering away from the gate and doing their own thing. Mine will call to me quite often when i appear at the field (because he things "ooh, food!"). If a horse has company, food, water and adequate shelter then why would they be 'miserable'?

My sister's horse will often stand at the gate when we're about at the stables and I guess the way he looks at you could be seen as pathetic/miserable. Thing is, the minute we get in the car and leave, off he potters back to his pals! They're not daft, they kno how to work us soft humans!

I keep the horses at home so I can see them most of the time. I don't work except to look after the beasts and family.

As I said I have 5, 3 of which are keen to come in the winter, they will have a mooch, a roll, a pick of the hay or grass. After about 2 hours they then stand at the gate and believe me make it very clear where they would rather be. If its a fine sunny day it can take them longer. Yes its my take on them having miserable faces but they do not move around and stand there. The other 2 are quite happy to be out and never stand at their gates. As I said the 3 may just well be conditioned to being in as 2 are eventers and 1 ex race horse all from large comp yards before me.

They have grass and hay in the field and are fed bucket feed twice a day am and late pm at no other times. So the food angle just doesn't wash with me its about individual horses. My 5 are very different.

 

[Star_Chaser]

Another thread has got me thinking. By isolation, I don't mean as a temporary unavoidable situation. Or with a donkey etc. Or even individual turnout with horses in adjacent fields, or on a busy yard with other equines in sight. Although tbh, even any of those I'm not keen on, (excepting donkeys) as a permanent way of life, but accept for some horses, they themselves make it the only option. Ideally though, imo they should have company in with them the majority of the time. But, I think complete isolation except for humans is a form of mental cruelty when done long term. Something I've always believed, & those around me. Do people now consider this ok if it suits them? Do many of you keep horses isolated? Your opinions please!

No they are a herd animal but... some horses prefer the company of people and so long as they are getting that company are happy. Does seem a pity though when they can't be paired up with at least one chum to keep them company.

 

[NeverSayNever]

Well said meesha!!! They're kept in their individual paddocks/ stabled 24/7 due to owners needs not horses. My horse loves coming in? Load of rubbish, they come in for food!!! I know for a fact if I left my stable door open, my mare would eat her dinner and be off looking for the next patch of juicy grass!

thats interesting... i dont stable, but i leave my stable doors open and my girls spend most of their day standing in rather that out in the field that they have free access to. My shetland is the worst for it, she loves her bed!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

No. IMO horses should be able to touch other horses, not donkeys/sheep/goats, at least over a fence. A bit different for stallions perhaps but better for them to be able to run with mares and foals - I do know a couple of people locally who manage to do that and one whose Arab stallion lives with his mum, very well behaved, even though he is used for breeding with other mares.
One of the saddest stories I know was a pony who was brought to live in a field on his own with other horses visible but out of reach across a track. The poor thing wore a path round his field and never relaxed. Eventually he did stop the pacing - he seemed to switch off. After a few years he got very bad laminitis, purely from poor management, as the grass had previously been fertilised for cattle, although I don't suppose the stressful life helped, and had to be pts. An absolute tragedy! The vet nurse who organised the pts told the owner exactly what she thought of all this but of course it was too late by then.
If I had to live without human company, I suppose I would prefer to be with apes of some kind to complete isolation but it's hardly the same as my own species, is it? So whay would a horse want to live exclusively with other species?

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

If cows and sheep dont count then my boy was alone on the farm for 5 years, no issues, no sepration anxiety not freaking out when with other horses (competed alot) not bothered about leaving other horses etc

Not a bother when i got my mare either infact he kicked the crap out of her becuause she was glued to him.

He is still on his own, within sight of other horses albiet but he cant touch them etc as they are small ponies and id be worried he did some damage should he decide he doesnt like them

My loan pony is also on her own as her owners other horse has just been PTS and she cant face getting another on right now and Pony isnt caring one iota, hacked out and ridden fine, eating fine and not fretting at all so why pay in winter to feed another horse unnecessarily just so a horse that isnt bothered has company that is ignored anyways, I cant find a reason for that.

None of the above are on livery yards BTW

 

[flirtygerty]

No, when we lost my OH's horse in Feb, leaving my lad alone with nothing but the donkeys in the next field for company, he went into a deep depression, scoff if you want, but I know my horse, he refused to leave the barn for two weeks, picking at his hay and standing head down, when my daughter tried to take him on a hack he turned nasty, so much so she rang and asked us to go lead her back, never nasty before or since, it broke my heart seeing him like that. I ended up borrowing a friends pony till we found a replacement for Ozz.
My lad heard the pony coming down the yard and for the first time since losing Ozz, pricked his ears and looked alert, my lad was in the barn throughout the colic attack that killed Ozz and knew something was amiss.
A couple of years ago we had an old horse pts and we didn't get this reaction from my lad then, but he had two thers for company

 

[Jools1234]

no I dont agree with it, but noone told my girls first pony that she should like being with others, in the 6yrs we had her I only found one other she was happy to go out with and she was only at the yard for 10 months. she is on loan now and a condition of the loan is that she is never turned out with others-she has them around for company but she always pulls a face and moves away if they come over and she is near the adjoining fence

 

[ISHmad]

I don't agree with keeping them permanently isolated away from other horses, no. They are herd animals. One owner I know has a very neurotic mare as she has no equine company, relies on her owner to provide companionship and gets really stressed when the owner goes out as she sees her security blanket gone. In that particular case very cruel I think, the poor mare never gets to truly switch off.

 

[annaellie]

I have not read the whole thread but when I bought my new forest he was at home and by himself, no other horses in sight except the odd one hacking past. I was desperate to find another but my market was limited as he was a stallion, but even so he needed company. He coped fab and was a star it appeared it was me stressing not him. He was on his own for about 4-6 weeks when I finally bought another, he was smaller than I wanted but I could not live with the guilt of the nf being alone.
I fenced the field off for them to get used to each other and the nf was a right monster I even thought maybe he does like being on his own. But now they are inseparable though the nf is still boss

 

[Pale Rider]

I don't think its right that horses should be kept in isolation. There may well be the odd exception, but you have to wonder 'How did that happen?'

The saddest reason I feel for keeping a horse in isolation is the 'He's very valuable,' one.

Then there are the stallions driven half mad by being kept in isolation.

Basically, I think that the mental and emotional welfare is as important as the physical.

 

[montysmum1]

Absolutely not!

I appreciate that it's not always easy to find the ideal situation, but my old lad is a bit riggy (was cut at 5yrs old) and was hand reared, so has 'interaction difficulties' with other horses, to the point that in a herd, he ALWAYS gets kicked/beaten up.

However, i have solved this by always keeping him with either 1 other quiet gelding, who won't mind him being bossy, or 1 or 2 kind mares.

This way he's always got company and is safe

 

[Moggy in Manolos]

.
Keeping horses in individual paddocks is one thing, and sometimes is the best for a myriad of reasons, keeping them completely away from other horses is another.

Agree. We kept our horses in a herd when we had our own land, they were a chilled out and well adjusted bunch.
I think horses should not live alone, they are herd animals after all. I do not have issue with individual paddocks all adjoining as sometimes it is best for the horse in terms of safety etc
But I do not like the idea of a horse on its own long time with out another horse in sight

 

[debsey1]

My cob was kept in isolation in his previous home before I had him because he had sarcoids others liveries thought it was contagious! He got quite distressed and since I had him he frets if he is turned out first in the field. He always had company now bless him

 

[Spotsrock]

B1 was alone from weaning till I bought her at 2 and a half. She was quite switched off and robotic. When I first turned her out with my mare she stayed away and when I put her in with the herd I had to teach her to kick and squeal as she got battered. She still squeals exactly like me! Having been with my dominant mare for 10 years now she is quite brave and dominant herself and I am so proud when I see her stick up for herself, she protects old mare too now she's too old to fight back and took wimpy tb under her wing! She is still hysterical if left in alone though and stresses when any of her friends are turned out before her. At shows she latches on to whatever we travelled there with. I wouldn't keep one alone for more than a few days if necessity demanded