Do You Give People Lifts In Your Box or Trailer?

siennamum said:
I am always giving lifts to friends, we share the diesel costs and it is nice to have company. My lorry is ancient, my friends are civilised and their horses are well behaved. Last year one of my best (lovely) friends out of the blue, paid for my lorry tax for a year, just to say thankyou - what goes around comes around.
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I would be careful if I were you because what you have just described IS hire & reward and unless you have an operators licence then you are operating illegally... You are basically hiring her a space in the wagon/trailer for gain, whether it be cash or otherwise.

Taking payment for diesel is reward... having your friend pay for the tax is reward... moving her horse for a cash reward or even if she mows your lawn for you IS a reward and if you let that slip to the wrong person then you know what sticky beaks a like for telling tales out of school!!

Thats why it costs us transport people SO much money to do things legally, if we all did what you are doing (Splitting the cost of diesel & allowing a friend to pay for tax) then everyone would be out and about with their horses all of the time and there would be no need for Operators Licences, 6 weekly inspections, tachos, working time directive and a whole heap of other things that are needed to operate on the right side of the law but sadly the law doesn't allow that to happen and tends to spoil all the fun at times...
 
No, mostly because of insurance issues but also after waiting 2.5 hours while owner tried to load her horse, damaging my trailer in the process. We finally gave up because it would NOT be loaded (in spite of all the latest Parelli methodology!).

BUT I did once give a hitch hiker (horseless and on foot!) a lift with two horses in a 505. Trailer lost two wheels and came to a grinding halt on a dangerous bend. I was able to ask the hitch hiker to go back up the road to warn oncoming traffic while the horses were unloaded and the trailer moved to a lay-by on three wheels. A very scary few minutes and I am eternaly grateful to that hiker! The gods were smiling on me that day -- moral, help people if you can, but don't stick your neck out for ungrateful scroungers.
 
Dry Rot said:
No, mostly because of insurance issues but also after waiting 2.5 hours while owner tried to load her horse, damaging my trailer in the process. We finally gave up because it would NOT be loaded (in spite of all the latest Parelli methodology!).

BUT I did once give a hitch hiker (horseless and on foot!) a lift with two horses in a 505. Trailer lost two wheels and came to a grinding halt on a dangerous bend. I was able to ask the hitch hiker to go back up the road to warn oncoming traffic while the horses were unloaded and the trailer moved to a lay-by on three wheels. A very scary few minutes and I am eternaly grateful to that hiker! The gods were smiling on me that day -- moral, help people if you can, but don't stick your neck out for ungrateful scroungers.
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Sounds hair raising... Out of interest how many wheels does your trailer have not including the spare??
 
nope too much hassle. people dont want to pay (youre not supposed to accept) any damage that occurs doesnt get repaired by them, you end up doing if every weekend. My policy is, if its an emergency - ie vet, not a problem. If i take it in turns with somebody - save diesel, not a problem. Other than that no!
 
Quadro said:
No, never ! The last time i did i got lumbered with a £400 bill!! I don't need to say anymore.................
Q
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*hollow laugh* I wish I'd gotten off that lightly...
Don't do it. I loaned my lovely just-serviced and plated horsebox to a 'friend' and the bill so far is over £11.5k.
Let them use commercial transporters which have their own proper insurance. Learn from my stupid mistake.
 
kerilli said:
*hollow laugh* I wish I'd gotten off that lightly...
Don't do it. I loaned my lovely just-serviced and plated horsebox to a 'friend' and the bill so far is over £11.5k.
Let them use commercial transporters which have their own proper insurance. Learn from my stupid mistake.
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OUCH!!! sounds like that ended up in a ditch... on its roof!!
 
Occasionally if it is a good friend and I know their horse travels well and we are going to the same destination.

I do say at the start - any damage caused by their horse - they pay for it and I expect them to give me a hand round the yard, ie muck out or poo picking in return for the lift.

I will also lend my trailer to a couple of good friends if I am not using it, they know the score, any damage, they pay for it and also the insurance excess if a claim had to be made. Again I expect them to give me a hand with jobs in return. I never take any money as this would invalidate my insurance. I also expect to have it back completely clean, including mats taken out to ensure floor is dry and clean before it is returned.
 
There seem to be 2 distinct groups of us. Those who have had their transport damaged and will never lend it out again and those who are lucky enough to have not faced that particular trial!

I have gone on my friends box when she was travelling solo and we were going solo - that was as it seemed silly to take a box and a trailer when we could go together. I cleaned out her lorry for her as my thank you! but she knows my horse as he has already been out and about quite a bit since we brought him home.
 
Having been without transport for so long and being totally reliant on others generousity I always give close friends a lift whenever I can. However it is only close friends and I have stipulated time and time again in front of witnesses that any damage is paid for.

However if I can't or don't want to do it then I have no problems with just saying no.
 
I take a friend and her horse out in my box, he's my horse's bessie and mostly because, I want the company

Last time we went out to the beach, the other horse did a massive wee in my box and she cleaned it for me, bonus!

It is legal and insured, one horse and one pony on a 7.5t, no money changes hands, I have a 7.5t is because my horse won't fit in a trailer, oh, and because it has a kettle
 
I have only recently passed my lorry license and we got our first box a few months ago, I do all the driving as mum used to!

TBH it depends on the horse, although our box is not new its my pride and joy and I would not feel happy with a bad traveller onboard.

We recently came across a box involved in an accident outside a showground and were asked by police in the jam if we could take the horse as the transporter would be ages, and of course I did. Thankfully we have headboards and full height partitions so there was no nonsense.

I would never say no it someone was stuck anywhere, whatever the situation, I know my friends would do the same to me.

Generally in normal day to day showing trips its better that me and mum travel alone, there is far too many arguments about how to drive, how to park, and how to lead the horse down the ramp!!!!!
 
lea840 said:
Sounds hair raising... Out of interest how many wheels does your trailer have not including the spare??
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I thought someone might ask that!

Two wheels off one side; one totally lost, second picked up a hundred yards back down the road, but meantime spare taken off so two on one side and one (the spare) on the other.

Three wheels is enough to tow an empty trailer (with horses off loaded to a nearby field) 250 yards to the nearest layby.
 
I do not have any transport for my horse, but would only ask for a lift from a friend if it was an emergency. However.......
I do have a good friend who invites me to go to some pleasure rides with her. My horse is a good loader (now!) and traveller and we both have a great time at the rides. I am extremely grateful and obviously do my share of cleaning out the lorry afterwards etc.
I would pay for any damage if he caused it without a second thought.
We always travel when she wants to and leave afterwards when she wants to. Whatever she wants to do we do. Her privilege, i would not be there if it was not for her.
I think that if you are in a position to offer a friend a lift and they are willing to fit in with you and pay for any damage that's great, but nobody should ever expect a lift or even ask for one.
 
lea840 said:
I would be careful if I were you because what you have just described IS hire & reward and unless you have an operators licence then you are operating illegally... You are basically hiring her a space in the wagon/trailer for gain, whether it be cash or otherwise.

Taking payment for diesel is reward... having your friend pay for the tax is reward... moving her horse for a cash reward or even if she mows your lawn for you IS a reward and if you let that slip to the wrong person then you know what sticky beaks a like for telling tales out of school!!

Thats why it costs us transport people SO much money to do things legally, if we all did what you are doing (Splitting the cost of diesel & allowing a friend to pay for tax) then everyone would be out and about with their horses all of the time and there would be no need for Operators Licences, 6 weekly inspections, tachos, working time directive and a whole heap of other things that are needed to operate on the right side of the law but sadly the law doesn't allow that to happen and tends to spoil all the fun at times...
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As far as I am aware the law is worded as follows:

"individuals attending competitions for pleasure who share the cost of petrol, but where no profit is made by the individual carrying out the transport, are excluded from the regulation providing that every horse is accompanied by a person who has responsibility for its welfare"

So leaving my rather generous Christmas present aside then taking friends to events & sharing the diesel costs isn't illegal. It seems there is some confusion around this....
 
siennamum said:
As far as I am aware the law is worded as follows:

"individuals attending competitions for pleasure who share the cost of petrol, but where no profit is made by the individual carrying out the transport, are excluded from the regulation providing that every horse is accompanied by a person who has responsibility for its welfare"

So leaving my rather generous Christmas present aside then taking friends to events & sharing the diesel costs isn't illegal. It seems there is some confusion around this....
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Even if it was illegal its going to be pretty impossible for anyone to prove that I gave my pal £20 towards diesel so I cant see it being a priority in the eyes of the law lol
 
I don't have transport and no-one has ever offered to give me a lift even if they are going to the same place entering the same class and have space. I would never ask someone to take me anywhere unless it was a vet related emergency and time was really important so I could not wait for a transporter to come and collect us. However I would like to think if I was in that situation someone on the yard would offer to help me.

If I had my own transport and was going somewhere and had a friend who might want to go too but was transport less I would offer especially if they were not very rich and I was but I do understand not everyone wants to get involved and might prefer to go to places on their own rather than giving people lifts.

If I want to go out to a show and can't hack there then I have to hire a lorry, I just accept this and am grateful that I can afford to hire a lorry occasionally to go to a show.
 
If we have a space in our trailer and someone from my yard wants to come along then we'll offer the space. It happened quite a lot this year as my mare was off sick so the spare place was available. We took someone's horse to leahurst in an emergency and would do so again without question. I remember someone offering us the use of their trailer when we didn't have one for the first 6 months of horse ownership - it is nice to be able to give others the opportunity that lady gave us but it is only when we are going somewhere already as wouldn't let anyone take it without us being there.
 
Reading this has made me realise just how lucky I am!

I have free use of a friends trailer that they use only once or twice a year. Although I do insure it and will be paying for it's servicing this year. There is no way I coul afford a trailer of my own, but with theirs I am able to get out 3/4 times a month to little shows and lessons (:
 
stimpy said:
Do you mean that you have a 3.5T horsebox whose payload is insufficient to carry two? What is the payload?

I only ask in case people think that a 3.5T box cannot ever legally carry two which is, of course, not true. My box's payload is 1200kg and I nearly always travel with two on board (approx 750kg of horseflesh).
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Payload is 1100kg. But my boy is a 17.2 MW hunter. Its only carrying one!

I quite like the idea of travelling to shows with a friend to help out but its not going to be that sort of arrangement. Friend doesn't do the same shows as me and I always find it so stressful getting myself and horse ready, I don't think I could cope with another. My boy also kicks horses he doesn't know, to assert his dominance over them...recipe for disaster.

I still feel a bit mean though.
 
i do - but it is made clear right from the start that if their horse damages my lorry, then they pay for the repairs - so far have had a partition wrecked and a side mirror broken. Both were repaired with no qualm.

I try to help out people who have no transport as I have been in that situation for so so long and just love my lorry even though it is old and tatty - it is so reliable and goes really well.

I also make sure that they are fully aware that their horse is not insured in my lorry - I will take great care transporting them but will not be responsible for any injury to their horse. I also insist that they pay for the fuel/road user charges so that I am not out of pocket. If a friend is sharing then we either have an arrangement whereby I get help with the youngster or they pay a share of the costs.

Set the rules down fair and square at the beginning and there should be no problems.
 
This is one of the reasons I bought a single trailer!

I've had mine for over three years now and one person has asked to borrow it. As they were wanted to take it about 250 miles away topick up a horse they'd never even seen before, it was quite easy to say no!

I did lend it to a very good friend to move a well behaved sofa to it's new home though........
 
I'm one of those that starts off saying "I'm not taking them again" then as soon as there's a lovely pleasure ride I ask if they want to come!! I have room in my lorry and its a shame to waste it and I enjoy the company;

BUT they never clean the lorry out after, only usually pay £10 towards diesel ( yeah right for an hour journey and back!!) never bring me any chocolate ( lol)I always provide the tea too

I suppose its one of those things, you put up with it if you want to ride with people ( no one locally does anything with their horses bar walking around the village :( )
 
I take close friends - its more fun to have company. With my regular travelling buddy, she has her own transport and we swap about with who's trailer/jeep we take.

I wont take friends of friends (unless its a vet emergency) and there are only 2 or 3 people I would lend my trailer to. I just say my husband doesnt like it (like he would have a say in what I do with it;)).

For years, I didnt have transport and I only ever borrowed my pals to go to the vets. I saved for a trailer and hubby asked why I was bothering as I had free rein to borrow my pals and didnt go anywhere so obviously didnt need a trailer??. I explained that I wouldnt borrow apart from vets. Now I've got my own trailer I'm off out and about regularly:D
 
I have two friends who have given me lifts but I always pay for diesel and give them a little something for their time (chocolate or wine or something) AND my horse is extremely good to travel, which I think is the main reason they are happy to do it.

Plus, if for whatever reason they decided that they couldn't or didn't want to, I would make my own arrangements immediately and certainly not hold it against them.

People forget that you are doing them a huge favour fetching and carrying because, as you say, professional transport is expensive. But if people want to have horses and compete them, they must expect to stump up for things like transport, not expect friends to carry the burden and liability for them.
 
I will give lifts to friends and will lend my trailer to people I trust. I've also borrowed trailers from friends on the yard. I regularly give a lift to a friend who has no transport and groom for her, in return for her doing the same for me. It means I get someone to go to shows with which makes it more fun. However, I don't like it being expected of me and I like to offer rather than be asked.

I shared a lorry for a while and came under a lot of pressure from another girl at the yard to give her lifts. It made me feel quite uncomfortable as she could be quite manipulative about it. I did take her out once, and the lorry owner took her a couple of times but neither of us were happy with being pressed. She was her own worst enemy as I probably would've offered more lifts if I hadn't felt I was being pushed into it.
 
Keep saying NO you are doing the right thing!

It is illegal and you do not want to even open the can of worms! As others have said

Regardless of vehicle (trailer/3.5t/7.5t) you will need

DEFRA Licence

Vehicle inspected by DEFRA (Or one of their 3 Companies permitted to issue registrations) this includes a certificate which is valid for 5 years and a metal plate inside the said vehicle to state it is a legal DEFRA/EU compliant vehicle)

You will need the DEFRA certificate to say you are competent CET or ACET

Then insurances as well as your normal road insurance which SHOULD be uprated to Hire and Reward

Care, Custody and Control
Public Liability
Equine Breakdown Recovery (commercial not your basic personal)

Now if your trailer and vehicle come over the weight of 3.5t you will need an operators licence (end of no arguments) The same with any lorry over 3.5t.

If you do SELF DRIVE you will still need the vehicle approved by DEFRA and correct SELF DRIVE insurance not ANY DRIVER! Totally different.

Now here's the fun part!

Anything upto 3.5t (including trailers and vehicles) are now regulated and have been since 2006 for driver hours! These are DOMESTIC HOURS (on the VOSA site) and these have been passed by our Government to Trading Standards who also regulate DEFRA Laws and Passport Laws.

VOSA regulate EU driver hours and operator licences so anything over 3.5t - they can pull you over and not only give you a lovely on the spot fine (depending upon the infringement) with a lot of paperwork and in some cases issue a GV9 so you CANNOT move your lorry (this basically says your lorry is not legal to be driven thus invalidating your insurance)

With VOSA now being self funding they need to be out all the time (which they are) and TRADING STANDARDS are now coming out more due to lack of pennies in their pots also!

They do tend to sit outside horse shows/Rides etc for maximum impact.
 
foraday said:
VOSA regulate EU driver hours and operator licences so anything over 3.5t - they can pull you over and not only give you a lovely on the spot fine (depending upon the infringement) with a lot of paperwork and in some cases issue a GV9 so you CANNOT move your lorry (this basically says your lorry is not legal to be driven thus invalidating your insurance)QUOTE]

Its a PG9 (Prohibition at the roadside)... sorry don't mean to be picky, just saves confusion :)
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