Do You Have What It Takes?

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Tia

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I hear this often; "I'd love to own my own livery yard" or "one day I'd like to open a livery yard" or "wouldn't it be such a great life".

So....for everyone who thinks like this, and for a bit of fun other livery yard owners, feel free to post your thoughts
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So here's a little game - some different scenarios, how do you deal with them?

Let's set the scene: All horses at "your yard" are there on full care, where you are in control of their daily care. No-one else is there to help and you do your job single-handedly. You make all decisions for these horses, you hold them for the vets, farriers etc just like you would do your own horses.....except you are paid to look after these ones.
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1. You have a field full of 10 large and lively 3 year olds. All the horses get on great together and play a lot. You like them and they like you. On an individual basis, you find the handling of these horses very easy, however in the herd situation 1 does not respect your space and will threaten his bottom to you whenever you shoo him on. He does this over a period of time and a couple of times he has kicked out and caught you leaving marks but without seriously hurting you. One day you go into the field and this horse comes joyfully running up to you, you shoo him off and his response is, he spins around and backs up to you to try to kick you with a nice size 6 double-barrel.....what do you do?

2. (a) A horse is clearly unwell. You try to make the horse feel better and try to contact the owner. The owner is not contactable.....what do you do?

(b) The horse has deteriorated and you still cannot get in touch with the owners. You know the horse is going to die......what do you do?

3. One of you livery clients has not paid their livery bill. What do you do?

4. You have 2 friends who board at your yard. Their horses do not get on well in the field together but the owners want them to be in the same field as each other. One of the horses kicks and injures the other horse, the owner has vet out and he deals with situation. Horse goes on individual rest for a week and then becomes sound again.......what do you do?

5. You have a couple of liveries who come knocking on your door every time they come up, asking questions or just because they are lonely and want to chat. They come to ride their horse every day in the early evening when you are finished your horse-chores and have moved indoors to spend time with your family.......what do you do?


These are not specific to me and I'm sure there are many more scenarios that other yard owners on here can come up with (feel free to
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) so lets see what we all agree on and what we disagree with.
 
I've faced most of those dilemmas and solved them Tia, so unfair to answer!
I do however think that Yard Owners deserve a lot more credit than they get.
So I would ask YOners the following..
How many times does a livery appear panic struck at the door at any time of the day or night saying their horse is lame/bleeding.colicking etc and you have to stop what you're doing and deal with it?
How many times have you clipped difficult horses after their owners failed to?
how many times have you paid the hay/straw/electricity bills despite the liveries being late with paying you?
How many people have you picked up, patched up or taken to hospital ?
How much free advice have you given to liveries regarding feed/schooling/lameness' etc and saved them hundreds of pounds in vet's bills?
How many bits or saddles have ypu loaned for them to try before buying the same make elsewhere?
How many horses have you re-educated in loading/leading/catching/shoeing etc?
In 30 odd years of having everything from full hunting to retired liveries I reckon I've seen the lot. I am a one woman expert at treating wounds, fitting tack, solving minor problems etc, yet of course I never get paid for it in the real sense..
So next time you rant about your yard owner or threaten to sue for something you feel is wrong, try looking at it from a different point of view..
Many of us offer unpaid expert help free as part of the deal....and do it all for just a thank you..
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1: duck or remember to wear shoes I can run fast in
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2. (a) treat horse as I would if it was my own

(b) As above

3. Set the dogs on said person when they next come on the yard.

4. Tell the 2 that although they maybe bestest friends they do not need to be joint at the hip and whilst it is great fun running a book and drinking a beer watching their horses war each other, they may wish for common sense to kick in.

5. Paint a big black cross on my door.


Do I pass the test?!
 
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1. You have a field full of 10 large and lively 3 year olds. All the horses get on great together and play a lot. You like them and they like you. On an individual basis, you find the handling of these horses very easy, however in the herd situation 1 does not respect your space and will threaten his bottom to you whenever you shoo him on. He does this over a period of time and a couple of times he has kicked out and caught you leaving marks but without seriously hurting you. One day you go into the field and this horse comes joyfully running up to you, you shoo him off and his response is, he spins around and backs up to you to try to kick you with a nice size 6 double-barrel.....what do you do?

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I wouldnt shoo it away in the first place. If it had threatened to kick me I would probably look into putting it into a smaller group, maybe with just one other horse.
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2. (a) A horse is clearly unwell. You try to make the horse feel better and try to contact the owner. The owner is not contactable.....what do you do? [/ quote]
call the vet. Write into the contract a clause that gives you permission to do this and ensure the horse is fully insured.
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(b) The horse has deteriorated and you still cannot get in touch with the owners. You know the horse is going to die......what do you do?


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Again, I would have a cluse written into the contract that would give me the authority to do this if both I and the vet felt it was in the horses best interest. If the horse was in pain, then have it PTS, if not, wait as long as possible, without causing the horse undue distress.


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3. One of you livery clients has not paid their livery bill. What do you do?

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another clause which would say i would give the owner 28 dys upon notice to pay bill or I would sell the horse.
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4. You have 2 friends who board at your yard. Their horses do not get on well in the field together but the owners want them to be in the same field as each other. One of the horses kicks and injures the other horse, the owner has vet out and he deals with situation. Horse goes on individual rest for a week and then becomes sound again.......what do you do?

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Bang their heads together.
seriously, I would give them a stern talking to and suggest that the horses are put next to each other.

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5. You have a couple of liveries who come knocking on your door every time they come up, asking questions or just because they are lonely and want to chat. They come to ride their horse every day in the early evening when you are finished your horse-chores and have moved indoors to spend time with your family.......what do you do?

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I would stick a notice on my door saying that I don't want to be disturbed after a certain time unless it is an emergency. Anything which needs to be said can be written in a note or saved until the next day.
 
Tia, are you trying to put me off
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lol. I know its going to be VERY hard work, I think a lot of people think running a livery yard will be p*ss easy.....NO way!

1. I wouldn't let this situation happen. If a horse keeps kicking out at me, i wouldn't shoo it off, as this obviously winds it up, it needs to be dealt with in a calming fashion.

2. a) In my livery contract it would state that I could contact the vet in an emergency.

b) Same as above, I could have the vet out. Keep trying to contact owner. I will even have the right to have horse PTS if its in pain and the vet believes its the right thing to do.

3. In my contract it will state that livery payments that are late will be charged 20% extra. If payments are still not paid legal action will be taken and the horse can be sold to pay the bill.

4. If they were friends, I'd tell them straight- it isn't working! Do you want to keep having to pay vet bills?
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5. I will have opening hours and inbetween i'll be contactable by phone or knock the door ONLY in an emergency (also in contract!) House is out of bounds unless its an emergency or im not in my office.

I'd love to hear what everyones views are though, i could learn a lot from this
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Well, I would never want to own or run a livery yard but I thought it would be fun to answer the questions.

1. One becoming aware of the behaviour I would carry a lunge whip into the field with me each time (and only enter the field when necessary - as I have said to you before, I am not a fan of horses when they are in a herd). However, if it's bum is in my face and it's about to kick, I am not going to threaten it or actually hit it with the whip - sure fire way to get a foot in my face imo. TBH, I'd be a wimp and retreat pretty damn quick.

2.a). I would keep a record of the times I have tried and failed to contact the owner and also post a letter fully outlining the horses condition and the courses of action taken. I would post this on recorded delivery and of course keep a copy. I would have a clause in the livery contract that says I can take action I deem fit where the wealfare of the horse is involved.

2.b). Call the vet, if the vet advises immediate slaughter and despite trying again, if I still can't reach the owner then I would give permission for the horse to be pts. I would have a clause saying that if a qualified vet advises immediate slaughter and the owner cannot be contacted then the livery owner (me) may give permision to the vet on the owners behalf.

3. Speak with them but continue to look after horse, if they still don't pay (o offer satisfactory reason) then I would write to them, outlining that if I have not recieved payment be X date, they must collect their horse. If they collect there horse and pay, good. If they collect horse and don't pay, or don't collect horse, I would start legal proceedings (whilst continuing to provide care for the horse).

4. Turn them out seperately - just because the owners are friends does not mean their horses are and they can still be friends even if their horses are not turned out together. If they insist that they go out together, I would prepare a statement that says I have advised that the horses go out seperately, they wish to ignore this and therefore I am not responsible for any reporcussions, I would make them sign this and would keep it in their file.

5. Put a notice on the livery notice board saying that when I am on the yard, I will be of as much assistance as possible, but that liveries are only to come to my house in the case of an emergency. If they still come to my house, I would make them aware of the notice and express that they are included!
 
I would like to say you can't just sell a horse to pay a livery bill!
I got three ex racehorses dumped on me for three and a half years, and the upshot was you have to issue various letters by registered post each with a longer time limit than a month (I think it was three months) then issue a tuit from a solicitor before attempting to dispose of them.
I didn't even get my money owed back after selling one, I gave the other to a sanctuary and had to have the third destroyed as it was dangerous and couldn't be passed on to anyone for fear of being sued!
In the meantime whilst all this legal stuff is happening you have to keep the said horse and feed it...
 
I'm sure I don't have what it takes, but I'll have a go at replying....just for interest's sake

1. I would have a lead rope in my hand, and would flick it at his ass with menace until he got the message.
2.(a) contact the vet for help or instructions
(b)ditto
3. I guess you would ask them to pay or say they must take their horse away, and pay unpaid bill.
4. I would not turn them out together again, regardless of friend's pleadings (have been through that myself)
5. At the yard where I have my horse we do not go near the owner's house after 5.30pm. Unless its an emergency its a yard rule. (I don't go up there anyway for a chat - ever). Nor do we go up there from 12noon till 1pm lunch time for yo. Lessons etc go on till 10pm but YO's house is out of bounds . Fair enough.

I'm not a YO and will never be one so these are my observations from a livery person.
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I thought there was a new law that you could sell a horse to pay a bill
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I'm positive I read it somewhere recently....might be wrong though.

I'll be going to a solicitors anyway to sort out the contracts so I shall find out!
 
1) assert my authority with more than a simple 'shoo' but obviously within reason. It needs to know you are incharge as otherwise you are b*ggered. Personally though would have done something about it after the first glancing blow rather than left it to this point!

2a&b) treat/get treatment for the horse as it one of my own, contacting the owner as soon as possible to explain situation. Would not be afraid of having horse PTS to ease suffering if owner cannot be contacted and vet is in full agreement that it is only course of action.

3.depends how overdue. If a week reminder invoice, if more start thinking lien rights to horse which would be written into contract.

4. Advise them that horses will be in future seperate though if possible adjoining paddocks could be provided to prevent any further injuries

5. polite reminder with weekly bill that 8pm onwards should only be contacted in emergencies etc. Obviously you will still get some who believe their horse is crippled at least once a week but it might cut down the visits!

Alternatively just record yourself screaming at dog/husband/kid/all of the above and whenever you see a livery approach the house press play and watch them run
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although I have never technically been a YO my mum has a few liveries at home and for the last few years before leaving for uni and whenever I returned from uni i seemed to end up incharge! Several I would have chucked off the yard but I wasn't allowed sadly!!
 
alright, here goes!
1)I have to admit I'd probably have a lead rope to hand and use it to defend myself. Or possibly take it out of the herd situation and do a bit of work, based on the fact its my life?

2)a)Treat as it were my own, call the vet
b)I would probably call the vet to PTS if it was suffering.

3)Treat horse the same. KEep contacting. Go through legal channels if necessary and if necessary sell horse to pay for the bill (if it got to that stage)

4)Tactfully suggest different companions for the horses, or if had to, take a firm stance to prevent injury happening again.

5)Put a blanket time on when you can be 'chatted to' and put a big notice up showingall liveries the times.

My go, but I do not plan on running a yard!
 
I don't think I could because firstly I know I can be a short fused, intollerant person and although half of the time I am a people person, the other half I detest people!!!! Secondly, I like everything to be done my way and I would hate to have people on my property not looking after their horse the way I think is best - I am too interfering and it would annoy the hell out of me!!!
 
I like the idea of pointing out a few of the headaches that face livery yard owners, but i don't want a medal, i actually enjoy my people we all have our days where we are a bit off but it is a service industry after all. All my clients are full livery and most train with me all have a clear idea what it is that i expect from them and vice versa.
1. I never have horses in big groups and never allow my staff to be alone when handling the horses. So for me this situation would not occur.
When in this situation as in a stud we always went out in pairs to deal with young stock.
2. Anything to do with the welfare of the horses in my charge is a non issue. I will call the vet first and owner second if the situation warrents it. Legally the YO is culpable and as such has a duty of care. This is made clear in the livery agreement.
3.All my livery billls are paid in advance by bankers standing order the all also pay a deposit. No bank details and deposit no deal.
You can only take a horse in return for payment if you have been training the horse and there-fore have been responsible for an increase in value , you effectively own the extra value and there -fore have the right to seize the horse after applying to the courts. As pointed out this can be fraught with difficulty and you do not always get the true and full amount back. Stay a gold member of the BHS and you can get really good legal help!!
4. my horses only go out in pairs. all my clients know that the turn out arrangements are at my discression and i choose what horses go where and with who, so that charactures of horses not people determine companions in the field. This way we have few problems.
5. My phone is never switched off. So i am always available.
I and my staff are on the yard from 7.30 to 6pm clients know that we are always around for a tea and a chat if they need but only ever knock on the door if there really is a problem. There is a respect between me and my clients.
True there are times when i get cheesed off but these are few and far between and i think that this is due to the rules being clear , we communicate well and i stick to the rules everyone and everthing is treated the same and even handedly. Having plenty of tea and coffee and a clean and warm room and a loo with a good stock of loo roll helps too!!!!!!!
Its all about management. I manage my horses for their careers and i manage my clients and i manage my staff. There is no such thing as a perfect horse, owner or livery but there is exellence and i strive to provide an exellent service.
Think thats why i find it a challenge that i enjoy.
Still need a bloomin holiday though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
With the first question, I mean't what would you do at that moment; not what you would do in the future. Sorry for not explaining that more clearly.

Contracts are useful however there aren't really that many people who stick to them to be honest.
 
LOL!! I did think about you too when I wrote this.
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I'd be interested to hear your replies in a couple of years time as although what you have said makes sense as a non-yard owner.....a couple of them really are not practical and fall short a little. Don't believe that contracts are even read, let alone understood, let alone followed
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Yes you can....however it is not as simple and straightforward as some may think....and you can't just do it overnight. It takes months to be able to take over ownership of someone else's horse. You have legal fees and you need to pay to get the lien on the horse. You also need to be able to provide lots of evidence.

It isn't like that over here - 1 month without payment and we can invoke the Innkeepers Act; once in place the horse can be taken straight to the auctions.
 
1, I wouldn't be stupid enough to get into that situation in the first place

2, we've called vets out for livery horses when they have had accidents and the owner has been on holiday and uncontactable

3 If a livery doesn't pay their bill for a long period of time you get them to remove the horse from your property and then you pursue the money thru the small claims court - you don't want to keep the horse as it is just going to cost you money

4, once again I wouldn't let it happen, if horses fight they don't go in the field together

5 You don't mind a couple of times but when someone knocks on your door at 11pm because they have lost their brush you do get slightly annoyed - however the sort of person who does that is never going to change, answering door in PJs works quite well.

Saying all that we closed our livery yard about a year ago as you don't make any money at it and we got sued
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, someones horse with sweetitch scratched itself.
 
I must be a perfect livery. Pay bills on time and in advance if I am going on holiday!NEVER go to YO house for a chat (there is an office manned during office hours). I would only call if a dire emergency i.e horses leg falling off. I accept bumps, cuts scratches etc. as part of the deal of having a horse in a herd situation. I raised money for RDA (large part of YO business). I bought (wedding gift, mine as we didn't need anything) an expensive mounting block for the yard and RDA.I lend them my equipment from time to time.
 
I don't know about any new laws, but I have just received a stud pack from Catherston Stud and it is there in their terms on the nomination form, that if a mare is not collected from stud when the owner is informed that she is ready for collection, the mare will be sold at auction and the proceeds used to pay the stud bill.
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I don't know about any new laws, but I have just received a stud pack from Catherston Stud and it is there in their terms on the nomination form, that if a mare is not collected from stud when the owner is informed that she is ready for collection, the mare will be sold at auction and the proceeds used to pay the stud bill.
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Holy cow!!!
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1. You have a field full of 10 large and lively 3 year olds. All the horses get on great together and play a lot. You like them and they like you. On an individual basis, you find the handling of these horses very easy, however in the herd situation 1 does not respect your space and will threaten his bottom to you whenever you shoo him on. He does this over a period of time and a couple of times he has kicked out and caught you leaving marks but without seriously hurting you. One day you go into the field and this horse comes joyfully running up to you, you shoo him off and his response is, he spins around and backs up to you to try to kick you with a nice size 6 double-barrel.....what do you do?
make sure it didnt do it again and go in with a crop or lunge line to flick at him to make sure he knows its unacceptable.

2. (a) A horse is clearly unwell. You try to make the horse feel better and try to contact the owner. The owner is not contactable.....what do you do?
i would have a contract which all owner sign to say i can call a vet/give treatment if i think its necessary for the horses immediate wellbeing if i cannot contact them/named person.

(b) The horse has deteriorated and you still cannot get in touch with the owners. You know the horse is going to die......what do you do?
call a vet.

3. One of you livery clients has not paid their livery bill. What do you do?
call them or talk to them in person-they could have forgotten!

4. You have 2 friends who board at your yard. Their horses do not get on well in the field together but the owners want them to be in the same field as each other. One of the horses kicks and injures the other horse, the owner has vet out and he deals with situation. Horse goes on individual rest for a week and then becomes sound again.......what do you do?
talk to the owners about the likelyhood of the horse getting injured again but i wouldnt stop them from being in the same field, provided the owners knew all the risks.they are their horses.

5. You have a couple of liveries who come knocking on your door every time they come up, asking questions or just because they are lonely and want to chat. They come to ride their horse every day in the early evening when you are finished your horse-chores and have moved indoors to spend time with your family.......what do you do?
make it clear in the contract they would sign before moving on that after a certain time/between certain times you could only call at the house in an emergancy.
 
1. Horse needs separating and teaching manners. Go to field with big lungewhip for your own safety.
2. Treat the horse as mine - vet and PTS if that's the only option
3. Depends if this is a one-off. Nice written reminder first, sieze animal as last resort.
4. Whatever they say - but give advice for them to consider.
5.You have to tell them sorry, I am not available for this now, but I am tomorrow at xyz time

I have done it, too. It takes a very special mix of patience, detatchment and common sense edged with a professional don't mix business with pleasure attitude. It is your home and people must respect that, yet you still need be friendly and helpful IF NEEDED. The horses are not yours and you have to turn a blind eye if their care is not just what you would accept - or ask them to leave. Either way the horse may lose
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Livery people are not like own place owners and they do not appreciate the time and effort it takes to keep grazing and facilities in good repair. Sometimes they do seem a bit inconsiderate, but it is just that they really don't understand the huge effort it takes to keep a place horse-proof and tidy.

The 'it's my home' thing is another issue as well.

Tia, you must have the patience of a saint!
 
1 - take a headcoller or lungline into the field to administer a wollop on the arse of said rude kicking pony - if this wasnt working after a week or so i would consider seperating and dealing with the behaviour in a different situation.
2a - treat horse as i would my own
2b - as above (i would have a part of the contract that would state that in the owners absence i was to make all decision regarding the immediate welfare of the horse)
3 - write to inform that if the bill is not payed within 30 days you will have to seek further action - although i would try to deal with each individual as is appropriate. also the length of delay in payment would affect my actions. my bills would have a 15% surcharge for bills not payed withing 14 days of invioce. (thats the way my YO does it and it works well - also we are billed fortnightly not monthly which i think works better)
4 - have a chat with your friends and politely put forward you case for seperation to aviod injury - as YO you cannot have injuries happening that are aviodable
5 - is hide an option????? otherwise i would just try to make it clear that 'my house=my time' by having coffee and tae facilites at the yard - that way they never need to come into the house!!
 
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