do you need money to compete at the top?
- Thread starter diggerbez
- Start date
Lanky Loll
Well-Known Member
Money is one of the reasons we stopped SJ'ing if I'm honest. I'd pretty much stopped competing once I was off ponies - I only had novice horses and it was costing in excess of £100 to go to a one day show, if I won every class I might make half my money back... and how likely was that to happen? Plus my younger brother was still on ponies and very successful so my parents were putting more time into him - fair enough they'd done the same for me.
Once little brother went onto horses he had a Grade A and a couple of babies, was on the Amateur teams and the like but was told that unless my parents could come up with £250k to buy a suitable young riders horse not to bother as he wouldn't get on a team
That was more than their house was worth at the time! Once he'd left school he worked away from home so time became a factor - he couldn't compete consistently at the high level he was used to and hated jumping novice classes because of all the waiting around, plus it was just getting ridiculously expensive - £100 entry fees anyone?
Dad started harness racing and it's by far and away the cheapest horse sport we've ever been involved in. The kit will set you back c.£1k, the horses depending on the level you want to compete at - up to £15k will get you a good horse, ours are all either home bred or less than £3k. Our entry fees are a max £25 race - and we compete for a minimum of £250. Obviously we don't win every time out but our chances of breaking even are much higher and it's affordable - for the time being at least!
Once little brother went onto horses he had a Grade A and a couple of babies, was on the Amateur teams and the like but was told that unless my parents could come up with £250k to buy a suitable young riders horse not to bother as he wouldn't get on a team
That was more than their house was worth at the time! Once he'd left school he worked away from home so time became a factor - he couldn't compete consistently at the high level he was used to and hated jumping novice classes because of all the waiting around, plus it was just getting ridiculously expensive - £100 entry fees anyone?Dad started harness racing and it's by far and away the cheapest horse sport we've ever been involved in. The kit will set you back c.£1k, the horses depending on the level you want to compete at - up to £15k will get you a good horse, ours are all either home bred or less than £3k. Our entry fees are a max £25 race - and we compete for a minimum of £250. Obviously we don't win every time out but our chances of breaking even are much higher and it's affordable - for the time being at least!
ElleJS
Well-Known Member
I think with hard work, sacrifice, ability, luck at the right time and a good horse you can get to the top level at some point in your career.
However if you want to ride at Olympic level or team level consistantly spanning a long period and stay there then you need money from somewhere. (Unless the said above good horse is exceptional and stays sound for 10 years!) all the top event riders at that level are either wealthly themselves (their family background perhaps) OR have exceptional backing. Its one or the other. Ie for example Emily Llewellyn and William F P are very talented and have money behind them from the word go and at the other end of the spectrum Laura Collett and Oli Townend are as equally talented but from more normal backgrounds and had to find 'Patrons' to back them. Successfully!
However I feel with the last option it is still so much tougher relying on someone elses money... that could be taken away at any time.
Its all about the Benjamins!
However if you want to ride at Olympic level or team level consistantly spanning a long period and stay there then you need money from somewhere. (Unless the said above good horse is exceptional and stays sound for 10 years!) all the top event riders at that level are either wealthly themselves (their family background perhaps) OR have exceptional backing. Its one or the other. Ie for example Emily Llewellyn and William F P are very talented and have money behind them from the word go and at the other end of the spectrum Laura Collett and Oli Townend are as equally talented but from more normal backgrounds and had to find 'Patrons' to back them. Successfully!
However I feel with the last option it is still so much tougher relying on someone elses money... that could be taken away at any time.
Its all about the Benjamins!
ajf
Well-Known Member
This may have been easier in the past to work up from nothing with nothing but now adays I think it is even more about the money
imr
Well-Known Member
Money isn't enough, but yes. Talent, hard graft, some breaks and money. You do see very successful horses than cost next to nothing but they are the exception. Most good horses cost money. You can make a living teaching, training, riding, livery, dealing etc but its not a living which will allow you to buy a good yard, a decent lorry and good horses.
For that you need money, either your own, that of a patron or family money. There are many talented riders who haven't made it to the very top because they haven't had that. Others have had the fortune of a lucky break with a good horse and that has enabled them to be better known and attract other rides.
As well as being a good rider you need to treat your owners and sponsors well if you want to keep receiving the benefit of riding other people's top class horses. I can think of one rider who enjoyed some success a few years ago and is still a well known name, who now has two horses of his own to ride only. He gripes that there is not a queue of owners waiting to give him rides on top class horses. But, truth is he isn't right at the top so an owner has some alternatives, and why would they choose someone who is arrogant and will not put the effort in to be nice or grateful for the opportunity given.
For that you need money, either your own, that of a patron or family money. There are many talented riders who haven't made it to the very top because they haven't had that. Others have had the fortune of a lucky break with a good horse and that has enabled them to be better known and attract other rides.
As well as being a good rider you need to treat your owners and sponsors well if you want to keep receiving the benefit of riding other people's top class horses. I can think of one rider who enjoyed some success a few years ago and is still a well known name, who now has two horses of his own to ride only. He gripes that there is not a queue of owners waiting to give him rides on top class horses. But, truth is he isn't right at the top so an owner has some alternatives, and why would they choose someone who is arrogant and will not put the effort in to be nice or grateful for the opportunity given.
vallin
Well-Known Member
Surely Phoebe Buckley is a very good example of how a lot of luck, a lot of devotion and a lot of hard work can get you at least somewhere near the top (come on, shes only 25, ) but I do agree money is massively improtant even if not quite vital
) but I do agree money is massively improtant even if not quite vitalhumblepie
Well-Known Member
Define "money" and "top"! Echo Gamebird, you need a certain amount of money at any level or to ride for owners who do. For example, I show at county level and there will be certain horses that are entered in just about every qualifier so that if the "need" to do a certain class because they haven't qualified RIHS or HOYS they can do it. Entries close normally 2 - 3 months ahead so you can't just late enter. Given these entries are probably £40 - £50 a time for the one class with the levy on it, this comes to a lot and then you get classes towards the end of the qualification period where there are say 12 entered and 3 turn up. Those of us with slightly more limited funds just enter a few and hope it all goes right on that day.
Hi Seahorse, I think I know your friend, she used to own my current horse if I am putting two and two together properly.
Hi Seahorse, I think I know your friend, she used to own my current horse if I am putting two and two together properly.
Saratoga
Well-Known Member
Without a doubt yes. Money doesn't buy you talent, but it buys you everything else that you need to succeed.
diggerbez
Well-Known Member
^^ this is an interesting point- do you think things have changed? was it easier in the past to get to the top without bags of money?
Gamebird you make a good point...its expensive enough down here at the bottom of the pile- can't even comprehend what it would take to get to the top (it would take me even longer than most as i don't have any talent either
)SO1
Well-Known Member
Yes unless you are very lucky enough to have connections who can help you out so either you need money or you need someone else who has money will assist you financially.
Ideally you need time and money.
Even the basics such as livery and general care for a horse can add up and then on top of that you need horse transport and entry fees.
Though you could possibly get a bank loan to pay for some of it I suppose.
Ideally you need time and money.
Even the basics such as livery and general care for a horse can add up and then on top of that you need horse transport and entry fees.
Though you could possibly get a bank loan to pay for some of it I suppose.
kit279
Well-Known Member
Yes, unquestionably. It need not necessarily be your own but someone somewhere has to bank roll you. This isn't new - horses have always been an expensive hobby and racehorses are a fair indicator of that!
The problem is money AND time. If you haven't got a lot of money, you need to earn it and to earn it, you have to put in the kind of hours that mean that you haven't got time to excel (if we're talking top level here).
The problem is money AND time. If you haven't got a lot of money, you need to earn it and to earn it, you have to put in the kind of hours that mean that you haven't got time to excel (if we're talking top level here).
prosefullstop
Well-Known Member
In the horsey areas of NY, CT and NJ, having money is imperative. It costs $2000 per month at least to board a horse, and then barns expect you to take lessons with their barn trainer on top of that, and then there are show fees. I entered my first show in sixteen years last year--a tiny schooling show, over 2'3 fences, and the entry fee was $30 per class, with a two-class minimum. Goodness only knows what the entry fee is at the A-rated shows.
Most of the up-and-coming SJ riders in the US--Georgina Bloomberg, Jessica Springsteen, Hillary Dobbs, Brianne Goutal--are from extremely wealthy families. I suspect you can do well on the local circuit with talent and a decent amount of money, but not on the national circuit. The prize money is better than in the UK, but the horses are vastly more expensive.
Most of the up-and-coming SJ riders in the US--Georgina Bloomberg, Jessica Springsteen, Hillary Dobbs, Brianne Goutal--are from extremely wealthy families. I suspect you can do well on the local circuit with talent and a decent amount of money, but not on the national circuit. The prize money is better than in the UK, but the horses are vastly more expensive.
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
It depends a bit on how you define your terms, too. As ElleJS said, lots of people reach "the top" (say a 4* completion or some decent GP results) once or twice in their careers, perhaps even with good results, but don't have the resources to sustain that level of competition. At odds with a few other comments, I'd say this usually happens when people are younger and more willing to live very frugally, do anything and everything, and/or rack up significant debts. When kids, partners, property, injuries, the reality of large debt and just plain tiredness come into the mix, most people of limited resources have to curtail their ambitions. I know quite a few people who have gone to 4* level and then literally had to sell everything they own to cover the debt incurred.
Also, even the people doing it "on a budget" have benefited from strong family (or similar) support at some stage. The sort of mileage it takes to get to the highest levels of competition doesn't come cheaply or easily and often it's the parents who've paid/done without. Good results in JR/YR can pave the way for getting owners and sponsors to break into senior competition, but in this day and age that doesn't come cheaply! And even below that level, many people who do not come from wealthy families still enjoy a level of support - even if it's only indirectly in the form of help with education to get a well paying job or a place to live - that allows them to have more for riding and horses.
There are a few who make it on sheer talent and gutting hard work. The one that comes to mind is Eric Lamaze, whose family history is, um, "interesting". BUT I remember hearing what a phenomenal talent he was when he was literally still a child and he was riding professionally in the US when he was still in his midteens. Also, to be frank, he has not lived a "normal" life and the real cautionary tale is the many, many people who have made similar choices and don't have a gold medal to show for it . . .
So yes, people get "lucky" breaks but, as Baydale recently said, "The harder I work, the luckier I get." If you throw talent - and success, let's not forget that - into the mix then yes, other people will pay but only if the wins keep coming.
Also, even the people doing it "on a budget" have benefited from strong family (or similar) support at some stage. The sort of mileage it takes to get to the highest levels of competition doesn't come cheaply or easily and often it's the parents who've paid/done without. Good results in JR/YR can pave the way for getting owners and sponsors to break into senior competition, but in this day and age that doesn't come cheaply! And even below that level, many people who do not come from wealthy families still enjoy a level of support - even if it's only indirectly in the form of help with education to get a well paying job or a place to live - that allows them to have more for riding and horses.
There are a few who make it on sheer talent and gutting hard work. The one that comes to mind is Eric Lamaze, whose family history is, um, "interesting". BUT I remember hearing what a phenomenal talent he was when he was literally still a child and he was riding professionally in the US when he was still in his midteens. Also, to be frank, he has not lived a "normal" life and the real cautionary tale is the many, many people who have made similar choices and don't have a gold medal to show for it . . .
So yes, people get "lucky" breaks but, as Baydale recently said, "The harder I work, the luckier I get." If you throw talent - and success, let's not forget that - into the mix then yes, other people will pay but only if the wins keep coming.
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coloa
Member
i know a lot of very talented riders out there and unfortunately they are not blessed in the bank so unless you have the money to buy the horses out from under the likes of the witakers ect, or VERY trusting and loyal owners with the money and horses that wont give the rides away to the big boys when they do well and get noticed. you will need a lot of money and time.
at the end of the day as long as you are having fun and happy with the results you are getting thats the main thing.
its not all that great at the top although the the horse boxes are haha
at the end of the day as long as you are having fun and happy with the results you are getting thats the main thing.
its not all that great at the top although the the horse boxes are haha
imr
Well-Known Member
To go back to the post about Phoebe Buckley - yes she has made it and should now be in a position to attract sponsors and rides. But unless she does she is unlikely to stay at the top - my point being that you can be hugely successful as a consequence of a lucky break and talent and you can find super horses which have had humble beginnings, but it isnt sustainable without an ongoing source of money and horses.
Riders like Phoebe are in a better position than those competing at the same sort of level but who havent had quite her results - she will find it easier to attract sponsorship and rides than they will.
In other threads we have established our horses cost a bomb and that there isnt enough TV coverage to fund big prizes. So no surprises you do need money - its just maths ... !
Riders like Phoebe are in a better position than those competing at the same sort of level but who havent had quite her results - she will find it easier to attract sponsorship and rides than they will.
In other threads we have established our horses cost a bomb and that there isnt enough TV coverage to fund big prizes. So no surprises you do need money - its just maths ... !
kit279
Well-Known Member
I would also argue that if a rider like Phoebe was to own a horse like, for example, Toytown, that was potentially capable of being on a team, it would be nearly impossible to keep hold of that ride and turn down the kind of money that was on the table. I know people have huffed about the selling of Totilas and pointed out that Laura B has never sold Mistral Hojris but the reality is that unless you do it as a hobby and have the money to burn, so to speak, you are forced to make decisions based on economics and not emotions.
mrussell
Well-Known Member
^^^^^ this this and this !!
Seahorse
Well-Known Member
My old YO and event rider sold her best horse just before the Olympics (she was long listed) as she was offered so much money for him it enabled her to buy a farm!
Shame she has never had such a good horse since.
Shame she has never had such a good horse since.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
I think you definately need a lot of money to succeed, especially in eventing. I've hit my limit now even though I'm nowhere near top level! I compete at novice with the odd CIC* but I can't afford to go higher - the events are very far and few between up here in NE Scotland and the thought of the entry fees for 3 days makes me sick! I also think you need a LOT of time to spare. You cant (in my opinion) go higher whilst having a full time job. If you have the money in the first place, you often dont need to work (if you have a partner bringing it in) which helps hugely!
Optimist
Well-Known Member
But she did get a farm! And that won't tragically break its leg in a freak accident in the field!!
Seahorse
Well-Known Member
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
Am I right in thinking that Phoebe Buckley hails from the traveling community?
kaya
Well-Known Member
yhh u do need money to get 2 the top ... but if u lovee this sport.. somehow u will find the money to get to places and yhh it may take time and hard work but its not impossible to do !!! all u need is to be hard working and a very good rider
u dont have to have an expensive horse if ur a talented rider and u put the work in aslong as that horses has the heart and the abilty..... u can do it !! and tbh i find that the riders who dont have expensive horses are alot better riders then those who do !
yhhh i dont have money and i dont have an expensive horse but i get the best out of what i get given and some how ill get to the top even if i get there at the age of 60 at least i can say ive done it !!
DREAMS CAN COMEE TRUE <3
u dont have to have an expensive horse if ur a talented rider and u put the work in aslong as that horses has the heart and the abilty..... u can do it !! and tbh i find that the riders who dont have expensive horses are alot better riders then those who do !
yhhh i dont have money and i dont have an expensive horse but i get the best out of what i get given and some how ill get to the top even if i get there at the age of 60 at least i can say ive done it !!
DREAMS CAN COMEE TRUE <3
HuggyBear
Well-Known Member
yhh u do need money to get 2 the top ... but if u lovee this sport.. somehow u will find the money to get to places and yhh it may take time and hard work but its not impossible to do !!! all u need is to be hard working and a very good rider
u dont have to have an expensive horse if ur a talented rider and u put the work in aslong as that horses has the heart and the abilty..... u can do it !! and tbh i find that the riders who dont have expensive horses are alot better riders then those who do !
yhhh i dont have money and i dont have an expensive horse but i get the best out of what i get given and some how ill get to the top even if i get there at the age of 60 at least i can say ive done it !!
DREAMS CAN COMEE TRUE <3
What a lovely post. I wish you well Kaya and hope your dreams do come true.
kaya
Well-Known Member
bless uWhat a lovely post. I wish you well Kaya and hope your dreams do come true.
and thanks very much means alot !!! amyneave
Well-Known Member
She definately did. I also believe Oli Townend started with little. However they had to work hard to show there talent. I know Mary King in particular spent time working with other riders to gain the experience she needed.