Do you see arthritis on these X-rays??

[Belleacres]

Hello! First post here my 15 year old Warmblood has been head bobbing lane for over 2 months now. She initially blocked to the hoof, so we focused efforts on shoeing changes (had a new farrier come out, he was appalled by her angles, fixed them) that worked for about 3 days and now she’s back to limping on her LF. Sometimes her RF looks ouchie as well. We also initially treated for laminitis even though she didn’t show the classic signs of it, because she was seeming sensitive to hoof testers my vet wanted to play it safe.

Anyway, the X-rays showed mild arthritis. Vets opinion was that it wasn’t advanced enough to cause the lameness, but now she’s thinning that has to be the cause. Planning to re-block next week to be sure, and then do coffin injections.

I’m going cross eyed trying to compare her X-rays to those in google for coffin joint arthritis and high ringbone. What do you see on these?

<img src="https://tinypic.host/images/2024/07/20/0960B981-A3F4-46EF-BDE6-90820434B6C9.jpeg" alt="0960B981 A3F4 46EF BDE6 90820434B6C9" border="0">
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[Equi]

 

[Belleacres]

View attachment 143213View attachment 143214View attachment 143215View attachment 143216View attachment 143217View attachment 143218View attachment 143219

Thank you! I’m new to this so not sure how to embed images

 

[Equi]

Thank you! I’m new to this so not sure how to embed images

You’re welcome. Did the vet explain what the anomaly is on both L and R to the outside of each hoof?

 

[FieldOrnaments]

Be intrigued to know why you're asking a forum, did the vet not discuss with you, even if they were going to analyse further later?

I'm not a vet but it doesn't look like there's arthritis or ringbone but are those bone chips?

 

[Belleacres]

You’re welcome. Did the vet explain what the anomaly is on both L and R to the outside of each hoof?

She said those are side bone, and that they’re common and generally benign

 

[Belleacres]

Be intrigued to know why you're asking a forum, did the vet not discuss with you, even if they were going to analyse further later?

I'm not a vet but it doesn't look like there's arthritis or ringbone but are those bone chips?

Honestly I’m just impatiently waiting until my next appointment and looking to speak with others who may have had similar experiences! She said they are side bone and are common and generally benign

 

[FieldOrnaments]

Ahhh that would explainwhy they are so symmetrical.......honestly the predominate symptom of arthritis on an x ray would be joint swelling if it's not advanced enough to be fusing. There might be a teeny bit of swelling (the slightly more translucent bits maybe) but again, not a vet, no training in x rays, but do know the agony of waiting to be told what is going on, it is really horrid. If these joints are arthritic it's mild if there at all.
I do have some x rays saved somewhere from my mare who definitely has no arthritis in front I can try and find for you but I don't know where they are

 

[Belleacres]

Ahhh that would explainwhy they are so symmetrical.......honestly the predominate symptom of arthritis on an x ray would be joint swelling if it's not advanced enough to be fusing. There might be a teeny bit of swelling (the slightly more translucent bits maybe) but again, not a vet, no training in x rays, but do know the agony of waiting to be told what is going on, it is really horrid. If these joints are arthritic it's mild if there at all.
I do have some x rays saved somewhere from my mare who definitely has no arthritis in front I can try and find for you but I don't know where they are

Thank you - it’s so hard because at this point I just want a diagnosis, even if it’s a bad one, just so I know what we’re up against and we can start appropriate treatment. It feels like I’ve been throwing (thousands of followers worth) of spaghetti at the wall trying to figure out what’s going on :/

 

[FieldOrnaments]

right fore please note 1 degree pedal rotation here
left fore no rotation/<1 degree

 

[Belleacres]

right fore please note 1 degree pedal rotation hereView attachment 143230
left fore no rotation/<1 degree
View attachment 143232

Thank you for sharing these! If anything it confirms that the osteophytes I see like the small bone spurs are super mild. Her legs, minus the rotation of course, look pretty similar?

How did yours fare with the rotation btw?

 

[ycbm]

I'm not liking this on the left and how different it is from the right. What has your vet said?

 

[Belleacres]

I'm not liking this on the left and how different it is from the right. What has your very said?

View attachment 143235

Oof, that is the navicular, correct?

Navicular didn’t come up at all when she reviewed the X-rays in front of me. She only pointed out the sharp spurs at the edges of the coffin joints. I’ll ask her about this specifically

 

[ycbm]

Oof, that is the navicular, correct?

Navicular didn’t come up at all when she reviewed the X-rays in front of me. She only pointed out the sharp spurs at the edges of the coffin joints. I’ll ask her about this specifically

I think it's more normal for it to be the bottom edge that causes problems but it's so different between the two feet it must mean something. Possibly low ringbone, I don't really know.
.

 

[Zoeypxo]

You'd be better off asking in the horse vet corner group on facebook.

Fwiw my horse has mild coffin joint OA and your horses joint edges look more rough on the x rays compared to mine, but x ray images don't always show the full picture or relate to the comfort of the horse.

I did think the left nav looks a bit rough/fuzzy, what that means i dont know!

 

[nutjob]

Has the vet ruled out a soft tissue injury, particularly if the hoof balance was poor for a while? One of mine blocked to the foot, xrays of the foot were not conclusive, he did have some arthritis in the fetlock but the main cause of lameness was a sdft injury which was picked up on mri.

 

[Belleacres]

You'd be better off asking in the horse vet corner group on facebook.

Fwiw my horse has mild coffin joint OA and your horses joint edges look more rough on the x rays compared to mine, but x ray images don't always show the full picture or relate to the comfort of the horse.

I did think the left nav looks a bit rough/fuzzy, what that means i dont know!

Oh I’ve never heard of that group, thanks I just requested to join it! Any chance you have your horse’s X-rays handy? Did their OA cause visible lameness/did you choose to inject?

Yeah, something is def going on with the navicular. Jumps out at me now that someone pointed it out!

 

[Belleacres]

Has the vet ruled out a soft tissue injury, particularly if the hoof balance was poor for a while? One of mine blocked to the foot, xrays of the foot were not conclusive, he did have some arthritis in the fetlock but the main cause of lameness was a sdft injury which was picked up on mri.

She only ruled out soft tissue via flexions. I’ll request an ultrasound at her next visit to get more insight. Did stall rest help yours?

 

[ycbm]

She only ruled out soft tissue via flexions. I’ll request an ultrasound at her next visit to get more insight. Did stall rest help yours?

You can't rule out soft tissue damage with flexions and you can't get inside the foot with ultrasound. If you want the full picture you will need to MRI. If you're insured I'm surprised it hasn't been suggested already. If you aren't, it's very expensive.
.

 

[scats]

I’d be inclined to think there might be a soft tissue injury going on there aswell.
MRI is your best bet.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Oh I’ve never heard of that group, thanks I just requested to join it! Any chance you have your horse’s X-rays handy? Did their OA cause visible lameness/did you choose to inject?

Yeah, something is def going on with the navicular. Jumps out at me now that someone pointed it out!

Yes if you pm me i can send you them.

Long story short she had an injured tendon in the foot aswell which was causing the head bob lameness, once that healed i have bi annual arthramid injections . With the coffin joints she is only 1/10th lame, the tendon she was 6/10ths.

If i had to do it all again i would do an MRI first as it wouldve been cheaper in the long run, i spent thousands on x rays remedial shoes steroid injections etc just to have to take the shoes off and turn out for 9 months resting.

 

[nutjob]

You can't rule out soft tissue damage with flexions and you can't get inside the foot with ultrasound. If you want the full picture you will need to MRI. If you're insured I'm surprised it hasn't been suggested already. If you aren't, it's very expensive.

This.

Did stall rest help yours?

For a soft tissue injury ideally you need a period of rest followed by controlled exercise. It's an extensive rehab process, far longer than for mild arthritic changes where you can bring back into work much more quickly. It can be misleading as a steroid injection may temporarily bring the horse sound due to the pain relief / anti inflammatory effect but a quick return to work will aggravate a soft tissue injury. If you are going back to the vets it's something to ask about.

 

[Belleacres]

Yes if you pm me i can send you them.

Long story short she had an injured tendon in the foot aswell which was causing the head bob lameness, once that healed i have bi annual arthramid injections . With the coffin joints she is only 1/10th lame, the tendon she was 6/10ths.

If i had to do it all again i would do an MRI first as it wouldve been cheaper in the long run, i spent thousands on x rays remedial shoes steroid injections etc just to have to take the shoes off and turn out for 9 months resting.

Shoot, it’s giving me an error message when I try to PM you!

 

[I'm Dun]

Shoot, it’s giving me an error message when I try to PM you!

try now, you have to make 10 posts before you can PM

 

[GypsGal1718]

I hope it goes well and you find the problem