Do you think car drivers

The-Bookworm

The-Bookworm

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Get confused between a horse riders', stop, slow down and thank you hand signals?

Just a random thought that popped up after hacking out yesterday.
It took a car repeated hand signals before they actually did slow down.
I was wondering whether or not they either don't see it, don't understand it, think we are swatting flies or doing something else with our arms.

I wear a Hi viz long sleeve top so you can see my arm. But just wondered if I need bells and lights on it, or a stop go board :rolleyes:
 
I suppose they could...

As I remember it, the hand signals in the highway code are what drivers give to announce their intentions. If a horse rider uses the same signals but to ask car drivers to do something, then there could be confusion.

Or, what I think is more likely, is that car drivers forget the hand signals within two weeks of passing their test.
 
No idea, but some riders seem to get equally confused. I was towing the trailer last week and rounder a corner (slowly obviously as I had a horse in it) to find two of the local liveries in the middle of the road, one of the horses pratting about and throwing shapes. I'd already stopped but the rider was dead set on making stop signals at me while her horse was still spinning all over the road. I just raised my hands as there was nothing else I could do. I sat there with the engine off while she eventually got it under control and then glared at me while patting it. No thought of a thank you.

Confusion seems to work both ways.
 
I don't think waving at a motorist to slow down does a lot of good. If you are on the horse that needs traffic slowing you are better with both hands on the reins controlling it. If you are accompanying a young horse on another, better to put your horse in a position where the vehicle needs to slow down to pass.
 
Car drivers even get confused by an arm stuck out right to indicate intention to turn - this whether you're driving a vehicle or riding. Road position is always your best method of communication. If I'm turning right on a vintage tractor or horse drawn vehicle I have to move right into the middle so they can't physically get past to stop them overtaking when I turn, despite a clear arm signal.

If you want a driver to slow down, put your horse further out towards the middle of the road so they have to think. You can then move back again to let them past once they've slowed.
 
When I was in training many years ago I was taught to use clear hand signals. Hand up and still to say stop. Hand out with slow and clear up and down motion to say slow down. I have always used them and I have always found most car drivers react to the signals. The ones who don't were the ones who were the muppets on road anyway. Thank you was always lower head and touch hat , with a smile. Or a loud cheery "thank you"😄. Sadly there are always drivers who don't want to be considerate to other road users
 
If your signals are clear most will react if they are going to - although it certainly helps to have high viz gloves on. But for many riders I have observed the signals are just not clear enough - they are really just flapping their hands about without actually communicating to me as a driver (I ride too but they don't know what) what they want. The most common lack of clarity is "slow down" with "go round" - a vertical straight movement needs to be completely separate from a sweeping semi horizontal movement.

And incidentally as a driver I don't obey either. I never pass a horse at more than a crawl so a riders "slow down" tends to be more of a nervous reaction on their part - the horse not displaying any reaction at all. If the horse is reacting they need both hands anyway and I have had horses for many many decades - I can read behavioural signs and I would never never pass too fast. And I will never obey a "go round" signal unless I can see the way ahead for myself. I appreciate the courtesy - but I don't know if the rider drives or can judge incoming speed appropriately. 3+ tonnes of metal is a lot to make a mistake with - for them and for me.

I was amused by the rider signalling left by circling the right arm - that's for drivers who can't reach the left window. Riders have a left arm!
 
scruffyponies said:
Car drivers even get confused by an arm stuck out right to indicate intention to turn - this whether you're driving a vehicle or riding. Road position is always your best method of communication. If I'm turning right on a vintage tractor or horse drawn vehicle I have to move right into the middle so they can't physically get past to stop them overtaking when I turn, despite a clear arm signal.
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I agree that where traffic is slow moving, it is better to position one's horse in the centre of the road when turning right (as one does when driving a car).

However the BHS riding and road safety course which I did instructed that one was to pull one's horse over to the left and wait like a pedestrian to cross the road when there was no traffic from either direction.
For years I led or rode horses to an arena that involved a right turn from a road and since visibility was good in both directions and traffic was slow, I always signalled right and positioned us in the centre of the road.
That is what comes of learning to ride long after one has learned to drive a car. I regard a horse as a vehicle.
(Please dont rebuke me on safety grounds. With a highly strung horse it is obviously not sensible to wait in the middle of a road. But I am an old lady in charge of calm, compliant horses)
 
The latest encounter was on a flyover of a very decent size. OH removed foot off the accelerator, pulled far onto oncoming lane and gently overtook the rider. Yet the woman was flapping her hand like a windmill and screeching definitely not "oh, dear me". To the point I was contemplating to say to OH to stop and ask that woman whats her problem. And I knew the horse, he doesn't give a two hooves about traffic.
 
Shay said:
If your signals are clear most will react if they are going to - although it certainly helps to have high viz gloves on. But for many riders I have observed the signals are just not clear enough - they are really just flapping their hands about without actually communicating to me as a driver (I ride too but they don't know what) what they want. The most common lack of clarity is "slow down" with "go round" - a vertical straight movement needs to be completely separate from a sweeping semi horizontal movement.

And incidentally as a driver I don't obey either. I never pass a horse at more than a crawl so a riders "slow down" tends to be more of a nervous reaction on their part - the horse not displaying any reaction at all. If the horse is reacting they need both hands anyway and I have had horses for many many decades - I can read behavioural signs and I would never never pass too fast. And I will never obey a "go round" signal unless I can see the way ahead for myself. I appreciate the courtesy - but I don't know if the rider drives or can judge incoming speed appropriately. 3+ tonnes of metal is a lot to make a mistake with - for them and for me.

I was amused by the rider signalling left by circling the right arm - that's for drivers who can't reach the left window. Riders have a left arm!
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I am surprised at how many riders I see suggesting the go round signal.
I was always taught that this a definate no.
If we want drivers to pass wide and slow, we need them to see where they are going as well.
 
The-Bookworm said:
I am surprised at how many riders I see suggesting the go round signal.
I was always taught that this a definate no.
If we want drivers to pass wide and slow, we need them to see where they are going as well.
Click to expand...

That's true, but I make an exception in two circumstances:

Where there's limited opportunity to pass due to windy narrow village roads, and I can that it's clear, but they cannot.
Where the driver is being over-cautions, and seeking reassurance that it's OK to come within 100 miles of the horse.
 
Slow down and stop signals are really hard to discern in a car, particularly as most of the time they turn out more as a frantic flap on the part of the rider. I only hand signal to turn left or right.

By far the best way to encourage cars to slow down is to wait until they've seen you and then stop your horse.
 
We know that we are asking car drivers to slow down, but as that signal is NOT in the Highway Code, why do we expect a car driver to know what we are asking?

This is what the BHS should be campaigning to be included in the next update to the Highway Code.
 
If you really have to, a flat hand, pushing palm towards the driver, says STOP very clearly (if a little rudely). Traffic police use this gesture, and it is universal.

I wouldn't advocate using it during normal riding, but it's invaluable if you have a real emergency.
 
The best advice I was told. Point at driver then raise hand. "STOP". Obviously this is for emergency situations and then thank driver profusely....If they stop to have a go...at least they have stopped and you have the chance to explain your actions.
 
View said:
We know that we are asking car drivers to slow down, but as that signal is NOT in the Highway Code, why do we expect a car driver to know what we are asking?

This is what the BHS should be campaigning to be included in the next update to the Highway Code.
Click to expand...

Agree, in theory we are saying we are slowing down...not asking driver to do so.
 
scruffyponies said:
That's true, but I make an exception in two circumstances:

Where there's limited opportunity to pass due to windy narrow village roads, and I can that it's clear, but they cannot.
Where the driver is being over-cautions, and seeking reassurance that it's OK to come within 100 miles of the horse.
Click to expand...

If you did that to me I’d ignore you. I want to see for myself that it’s clear and safe to overtake. If I can’t see then I’m happy to trundle along behind a horse or bike until I can see. I won’t be rushed into an unsafe overtake because you feel uncomfortable holding me up.
 
View said:
We know that we are asking car drivers to slow down, but as that signal is NOT in the Highway Code, why do we expect a car driver to know what we are asking?

This is what the BHS should be campaigning to be included in the next update to the Highway Code.
Click to expand...
It's an advisory signal and it's in my bhs roadcraft book.
 
little_critter said:
If you did that to me I’d ignore you. I want to see for myself that it’s clear and safe to overtake. If I can’t see then I’m happy to trundle along behind a horse or bike until I can see. I won’t be rushed into an unsafe overtake because you feel uncomfortable holding me up.
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Which is absolutely fine. We'd just keep going and let you make your own decision, but some people are in sooo much of a hurry, and there are places in some of our local villages where you've only got one place where it's safe to overtake, which can be difficult, especially if there are half a dozen or more of us.
 
scruffyponies said:
Which is absolutely fine. We'd just keep going and let you make your own decision, but some people are in sooo much of a hurry, and there are places in some of our local villages where you've only got one place where it's safe to overtake, which can be difficult, especially if there are half a dozen or more of us.
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That’s good. I’ve recently had a few cyclists looking irritated and repeatedly waving me past as we approach blind bends or the crest of a hill. You’d think they had a death wish.
 
The-Bookworm said:
It's an advisory signal and it's in my bhs roadcraft book.
Click to expand...

True, but the average car driver will never read that - so I don't know how we expect the average car driver to know what we are asking them.

I have trained somewhere in the region of 80 bus drivers about how to pass horses safely in the last three months. Not one of these professional drivers knew what that "slow down" signal meant (but they do now).
 
luckyoldme said:
I think a whole lot of car drivers think who the f do they think they are? Stuck up ts thinking they own the place.
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And that is why I grin like an idiot and nod like a dashboard toy, mouthing thank you so much. I just think it incredibly sad there is a "them" and "us" scenario. We are all trying to get from a to b and be able to sit down safely with our loved ones at the end of the day. Humans, doesn't matter, whether you ride a horse, bike or drive a car. Bit of patience and consideration, that's all it needs, one can dream.
 
View said:
True, but the average car driver will never read that - so I don't know how we expect the average car driver to know what we are asking them.

I have trained somewhere in the region of 80 bus drivers about how to pass horses safely in the last three months. Not one of these professional drivers knew what that "slow down" signal meant (but they do now).
Click to expand...
So it needs to be in the highway code that cars use.
Even added to the theory test.
 
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