DO YOU THINK FRANCE WAS RIGHT???

I do not want to give any details, as i do not want to cause any hassle for the woman (British Asian) involved.

This well educated, professional with a successful business, was coerced (sp) into wearing a burkha, by her (born again Muslim) husband. They are now divorced and she alternates between western dress and covering her hair depending on the occassion. The veil is firmly in her past.

So when you see a veiled woman, please do not assume she is doing this of her own choice. It might just be a symbol of her husband/family's wish to keep control.

Personally, I know where I would like to shove these veils.
 
Whilst all terrorism is despicable, let us not forget the 100,000+ afghan and iraqi citizens + children who have died as a result of our 'wars on terror' .... Are our actions towards the eastern religions\communities on a par with their actions towards us? Where is the line drawn between a war and terrorism? Are the deaths of these people justified as we too have suffered losses? Do two wrongs make a right?

If communities + countries learnt to co-exist without this need to 'dominate' and 'control' I should imagine many of these people would have been saved.

Every September 11th we have a 2 minutes silence for the victims of the twin towers ...... When is the silence for the victims of the resulting war on terrorism?

We are not the only nation aggreived by the actions of foreigners xxx
 
For once I think France have done what our Government is too weak spined to do.

I believe that everyone is entitled to worship which ever religious beliefs they want to BUT it shouldn't be rammed into everyone else s faces and make them conform too.

I actually feel quite uncomfortable when I encounter Muslim women wearing a full face veil. I also feel quite victimised when I enter a petrol filling station wearing my motorcycle helmet and get asked to remove it for 'security' reasons. They don't ask Muslim women to remove their veils for 'security' reasons. WHY? Is it not the same, they can see more of my face than they can of the Muslims through their veils.

Whether people like it or not, we are (or were :rolleyes:) a predominantly Christian / Catholic country, therefor, when in Rome (no pun intended) act like Romans. Don't expect our country to change it's laws to suit your religious beliefs, because you can bet your own country won't do the same for us when we visit you.
 
OFG said:
For once I think France have done what our Government is too weak spined to do.

I believe that everyone is entitled to worship which ever religious beliefs they want to BUT it shouldn't be rammed into everyone else s faces and make them conform too.

I actually feel quite uncomfortable when I encounter Muslim women wearing a full face veil. I also feel quite victimised when I enter a petrol filling station wearing my motorcycle helmet and get asked to remove it for 'security' reasons. They don't ask Muslim women to remove their veils for 'security' reasons. WHY? Is it not the same, they can see more of my face than they can of the Muslims through their veils.

Whether people like it or not, we are (or were :rolleyes:) a predominantly Christian / Catholic country, therefor, when in Rome (no pun intended) act like Romans. Don't expect our country to change it's laws to suit your religious beliefs, because you can bet your own country won't do the same for us when we visit you.
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Could not have said it better :D
 
But yet the UK and USA are over there trying to stamp a Western-style 'democracy' in other countries?

I think as you well know, the motorcycle helmet removal thing is to do with the number of armed robberies carried out by people in motorcycle helmets. While I think there are recorded cases of people committing crimes dressed as Muslim women, they are negligible in comparison.

I believe that everyone is entitled to worship which ever religious beliefs they want to BUT it shouldn't be rammed into everyone else s faces and make them conform too.
Hmm, tell that to the pagans, the native Americans, and the cathars.....oh, remember the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades?!
 
CaveCanem said:
But yet the UK and USA are over there trying to stamp a Western-style 'democracy' in other countries?

I think as you well know, the motorcycle helmet removal thing is to do with the number of armed robberies carried out by people in motorcycle helmets. While I think there are recorded cases of people committing crimes dressed as Muslim women, they are negligible in comparison.

I believe that everyone is entitled to worship which ever religious beliefs they want to BUT it shouldn't be rammed into everyone else s faces and make them conform too.
Hmm, tell that to the pagans, the native Americans, and the cathars.....oh, remember the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades?!
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I am liking your thinking! Cos it's the same as mine!
 
I hate the burkha, both for its rather off putting appearance & what it stands for. But I think if anyone personally chooses to wear one (as in not forced to by others) they have every right to do so as long as it doesn't effect me. If my daughters teacher wore one, yes I'd take issue, small kids find them scary. If my neighbour does, who cares.
I agree at times a bit of 'when in Rome' should be adhered to, but taken to extremes should we outlaw turbans, saris, the distinctive dress of orthodox Jews? Or is it just Muslim dress? Worth pointing out whilst adopted by Muslims, the burkha is cultural rather than religious in origin.
I agree its disgusting the way we allow Muslim extremists to behave in the uk, but the average Muslim is no more responsible than I am for the ira. (excellent post spudlet).
 
Littlelegs just playing devil's advocate but in my understanding of the faith and the reading I've done it's actually written in the Qu'arn that women must remain fully covered in public so as not to tempt men into 'sins of the flesh'.... There is a big religous ceremony when a girl has her first period as this is the age she must wear a veil\burkha until she marries and then she is only to reveal herself to her husband ........ Anyone please correct me if I am wrong but this was my understanding.

So as many are devout muslim, it's not an optional or cultural choice to wear a veil.

I don't know where my stance is on the forced removal of burkhas in france ........ I can't imagine how some of the women have been 'punished' by their husbands fathers etc for revealing themselves in public and defying their faith ....... A good book to read is 'princess' by Jean Sassoon, gives a very interesting insight into what its actually like to be an arab woman..... Many are prisoners to their burkha and envy the faiths that aren't bound to wear one but live in fear of reprisal if they dare remove it, it just all seems so desperatley sad for these women who are judged at every turn and criticized by all communities when we really don't have an idea of the suffering they could be enduring :(
 
undertheweather said:
The issue here is that it is illegal for these women to wear their religious head coverings in public in France. Not that they refused to show their faces through passport control etc.

OP I do not know what you mean by "This is how so many of them get in." when in fact these women go through passport control just like us and have to show their faces to a female controller behind a screen. They do not just wander in, what a ridiculous thing to think!

Can you actually read???
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Don't be so damn RUDE!

You have NO CLUE without asking why don't you try it before putting your foot in it?? Maybe if you had asked what I meant I would have said in some countries this happens. Well maybe my comment had nothing to do with this article but what i read in the 80's did you think of that???:rolleyes::rolleyes:
You just assumed I was referring to that article. I will tell you what i mean . There was an article where there was some tracking done and it was found one gets in the country wearying this outfit, they then send the passport to the next member who comes in looking the same and so on.

One passport for them all.

Why do people like you have to make sarky comments.
 
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CaveCanem said:
Leviathan, when you went through security, did you think, that what you just mentioned, would be possible? Especially the American security?
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duh no:rolleyes: who is talking about the above happening in America??

Listen not only was this a fact for a short while (Got it from the horses mouth) It was also brought to light in the 80's
I don't have to explain it any simpler for you do I??
 
Right, so it is completely irrelevant to the discussion, it happened 30 years ago, great.
And you got it from the horse's mouth, not an article?

Insult me again, I dare you :)
 
Leviathan said:
duh no:rolleyes: who is talking about the above happening in America??

Listen not only was this a fact for a short while (Got it from the horses mouth) It was also brought to light in the 80's
I don't have to explain it any simpler for you do I??
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I'm not sure if your answer could be any more confusing! Who told you this? Where did this happen? The 80's? Your argument is hardly persuasive.
 
CaveCanem said:
Right, so it is completely irrelevant to the discussion, it happened 30 years ago, great.
And you got it from the horse's mouth, not an article?

Insult me again, I dare you :)
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I would not waste time and energy on you sorry :rolleyes:
It was in an article too but as I said I don't have to explain to you.

You asked me if I had traveled internationally I told you where. I did NOT say anything about the article happening in the USA. sheesh
 
smokey said:
I'm not sure if your answer could be any more confusing! Who told you this? Where did this happen? The 80's? Your argument is hardly persuasive.
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The reason I cannot go into detail is. I am not allowed to mention the family involved.

Now I am done with this I have more important things to do than waste more any time on the computer.
 
Leviathan said:
The reason I cannot go into detail is. I am not allowed to mention the family involved.

Now I am done with this I have more important things to do than waste more any time on the computer.
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Is this family that you dare not mention the original burkha sharing bunch from the 80's? Was it their horse that told you about their little scam?
 
My understanding of the burkha being cultural in origin came from a Turkish Muslim girl I knew & a British muslim on separate occasions, & have heard the same since. My understanding is that whilst it maybe now a custom for some Muslims, some take the written word as a rough outline, much like the majority of Christians do with the bible, rather than following every word literally to the letter. Hence the reason its rare amongst Turkish Muslims. Some though take it word for word, at face value & adopted the burkha. Others think a veil is sufficient. Someone I know who is quite devout comes from a family who wear neither, & told me she isn't unusual, head coverings aren't a way of measuring how religious a Muslim is, just their interpretation of what is meant by modesty. And while there's no doubt that for many Muslims now its a part of their religion, the origin was just cultural.
 
I respect the French for standing up for their culture and traditions,unlike the UK where successive Governments emasculate immigrants at the expense of our own culture and laws.Also the Moslem faith does not demand women cover up from head to toe,this practice is interpreted by fundamentalist to coerce their womenfolk to submit to their will.People,cultures and religions who emigrate to the UK should be expected to respect our way of life as we are expected to respect theirs.Our Governments do not have the bottle to assert equality in favour of the people born in this country,particularly those from a Christian background.It is time the Government followed the French example before ours culture is subsumed completely.
 
Wundahorse said:
I respect the French for standing up for their culture and traditions,unlike the UK where successive Governments emasculate immigrants at the expense of our own culture and laws.Also the Moslem faith does not demand women cover up from head to toe,this practice is interpreted by fundamentalist to coerce their womenfolk to submit to their will.People,cultures and religions who emigrate to the UK should be expected to respect our way of life as we are expected to respect theirs.Our Governments do not have the bottle to assert equality in favour of the people born in this country,particularly those from a Christian background.It is time the Government followed the French example before ours culture is subsumed completely.
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Um I think emasculate means to remove their power ??? I would think indulge would be a better word perhaps
 
Alec Swan said:
Have you ever stopped and asked the question, WHY?

Have you ever considered that the seats of terrorism are based in the lands where the Western World has interfered the most?

Terrorism is only ever born of and promoted by the Western World medalling with and manipulating the lives of those who either through culture or lack of ability (all so often tribal people), aren't able to defend themselves. Understandably, resentment grows and splinter groups form.

During the '50s and '60s, promoted mostly by the "Reds under the beds" brigade, we were terrified of Communists and Russia, in particular. Along came Glasnost, and we found that we had nothing to fear (that's a bit simplistic, I realise, but that was about it)!

By and large, the Muslim has no wish to take us over. They simply want us out of their faces, and they want to be left in peace. We have relied upon the fact that, by definition, the Muslims tend to be tribal people. They aren't able to put a cohesive resistance together (just as historically, the Scots couldn't) and so the extremists are born, and resistance tends to father terrorism.

There is no simple answer, but were we to remove our selves and our influence from the Middle East, and if the Arab terrorist had nothing to fight, then he'd return to his shell.

When we stop medalling in the affairs of the Muslim, then we will have nothing to fear. The above is all a bit simplistic, I realise, but am I alone in thinking that the best way to approach the war on terrorism, is to withdraw? No fight=no war.

Alec.
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Good post ,yes who gave our politicans the mandate to medle , the stupid ****ers of both colors bliar should be up for war crimes and the prat cammoron should know better ,wars and foriegn aid !!! lets have the mess they have made of things here sorted out first then they can play bring democracy to the fuzzy wuzzies, shower of ***** the lot of them in the main partys...
 
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