Do you think horse people are getting softer?

[SamanthaUK]

I'm with Syrah.

It's just HHO, nearly every post turns into an argument. We're all lovely and friendly really!
It's good for getting your point across or genuinally having a bit of banter.
Chin Up!

 

[Jesstickle]

I'm with Syrah.

Also, I do rug my horses when they need it. In fact I am obviously extremely cruel as I put my newly clipped warmblood and 19 year old cob (also newly fully clipped) out yesterday afternoon in nice warm medium weights with necks with the warmblood having a snuggy hood on. I checked them about 2 hours ago, they are still nice and snug and extremely happy out, where they will remain until tomorrow afternoon (for all you fluffy bunnies they are getting checked tonight and tomorrow morning). I would add said cob was very, very hairy and he only went out in a lightweight rug, so I wouldnt have such a major grooming job. Said warmblood was the same before she was clipped.

Each to their own as far as I am concerned.

Huh? No one is saying you shouldn't rug your horses? My original point was

'don't you think it's a bit odd that a novice riding past a snoozing youngster with no rug on would be so vehement that it was a welfare issue'

 

[SamanthaUK]

Huh? No one is saying you shouldn't rug your horses? My original point was

'don't you think it's a bit odd that a novice riding past a snoozing youngster with no rug on would be so vehement that it was a welfare issue'

I believe they may have decided to join in on my argument over rugging! :')

 

[JFTDWS]

TX1, I honestly am not sure which side of the argument you're on - clipped horses need rugs, as a general rule... My ridden two are also rugged as there's no way I'm doing battle with the mud every time I want to ride... That's not really what the OP or the debating's been about. Though it's actually been pretty civilised thus far!

 

[Merrymoles]

How cruel am I then?

He's not even a cob - he's a warmblood (actually 3/4tb). And he's ancient Poor boy

That's obviously why he's so emaciated then - you're sooo cruel!

 

[rhino]

That's obviously why he's so emaciated then - you're sooo cruel!

I know, he doesn't even get any hard feed I really shouldn't be allowed to own horses

 

[Merrymoles]

I know, he doesn't even get any hard feed I really shouldn't be allowed to own horses

I hope you dried his little footsies and put his bedsocks after playing in the snow

 

[rhino]

I hope you dried his little footsies and put his bedsocks after playing in the snow

Of course I did

*walks away whistling*

 

[spookypony]

The first winter I had my pony, I was known on the yard (semi-) jokingly as "Cruel Woman", because he lives out hairy and rugless... He gets a rainsheet or a rug only when there's heavy rain combined with cold and strong wind. He doesn't get fed either, beyond a vit/min supplement. Somehow, all this cruelty hasn't prevented from coming out of the last few winters even fatter than he went into them...

 

[starbar]

No healthy cob "needs" a rug, never mind a yearling one.

Now, I haven't trawled through all the responses but this is just wrong, sorry. I agree that most are tough hardy beasties but it totally depends on the horse. I own 6 cobs, a mixture of youngstock and slightly older boys. One of them is MUCH happier out with just a rainsheet on, keeping the wind and rain off his back. I also put a rainsheet on my trad 19 month old filly, she has a very thick but fine silky coat and she is also better with just a rainsheet over her back. Then I have the hottest, hairiest chunky monkey who has got a coat like a yak and sweats if it goes over 5 degrees and would never see a rug in a million years. I don't know why people get so hot under the collar about this or make such sweeping generalisations. Just do what is right for your horse.

 

[Spring Feather]

I don't think todays horse people are "softer", I think it's more a case of something going wrong with their teaching. It seems that there are fewer and fewer real horsemen around these days who know why they do what they do rather than what we are seeing more and more of ... sheep people. I grew up in the days of jute and NZ rugs and it was a thrill when Lavenham brought out one of the first quilted rugs. When these primitive rugs became easily available they were a big turning point for a lot of people, myself included and helped eliminate, or at least alleviate, a lot of the struggles us older people faced daily when caring for our horses. However when all the newer fangled rugs appeared on the market a lot of the old tricks and tips became lost along the way. I feel the same has happened in a great many other aspects of horsekeeping, training, tack-usage and even riding. A lot of the skills and knowledge that many of us oldies grew up learning as staples of horsemanship seem to have fallen away and it's a great shame IMO.

Back to the rugging topic, in the case of many breeders not rugging their foals/youngsters, that's often more a case of owners/breeders not wanting to spend the money on loads of rugs which will have a very short lifespan, not wanting to spend the time watching and checking on their youngsters every few hours etc. rather than whether the youngster needs a rug or not. My foals are all rugged, for many reasons.

 

[Spring Feather]

A lot of the skills and knowledge that many of us oldies grew up learning as staples of horsemanship seem to have fallen away and it's a great shame IMO.

I would like to add a codicil to this. It's enlightening when I read info given by some of the younger members on here who quite obviously HAVE been taught by old-school horsemen. These posters stand out like a sore thumb on here but it gives hope to me that there are will be some people to pass on the knowledge given to them by true horsemen so there's hope their info doesn't fall on deaf ears.

 

[MissChaos]

I think there is a fair amount of molly coddling these days. My new girl turned up last Sunday having not had a rug all winter and that is the way I am leaving her for now. I think these young cobs are just fine out, as long as they have forage then they are fine. I am the only person with a rugless horse at the entire yard of 30+ horses, maybe some disapprove, I dont know but that is what she is used to and she is a perfectly happy and healthy young thing so I am not changing it for now, she has a coat like a yak!

MiM, totally OT but great to hear you've found a new girl and hope you're very happy together.

 

[Jesstickle]

I would like to add a codicil to this. It's enlightening when I read info given by some of the younger members on here who quite obviously HAVE been taught by old-school horsemen. These posters stand out like a sore thumb on here but it gives hope to me that there are will be some people to pass on the knowledge given to them by true horsemen so there's hope their info doesn't fall on deaf ears.

Shh, you can't say that. You aren't allowed to say positive things about the forum! No one is. We're all only allowed to grumble and moan and say how it has gone to the dogs etc...



Interesting that you rug your foals though. Can I ask why? It's a genuine question as I haven't ever known a breeder that does (probably as you say because they cba to check often enough to make it safe!) and I am a nosey bugger and always interested to hear both sides

ETA: you made me laugh with your comment about the Lavenham rug. My mother says exactly the same thing about hers, that it was a total revolution. We still have it somewhere I think!

 

[madmav]

It's not just horse people. I was once thoroughly scolded by an elderly lady who had a dog wrapped up in several layers for walking my dog in the snow with no coat on (him, not me). He is covered in the densest fur coat and could probably survive a night on an Alpine mountain. I am not so hairy (thankfully), so I did wear a jacket. I just smiled and thanked her for the useful advice....

 

[ClassicG&T]

Ive got a Fell pony, youd think he woudl be as hard as nails, but hes turning into a wuss. He used to live out, in the snow and rain and mud with just a 200 full neck and then when it got warmer a rain sheet ( he had a shelter with straw).
But then i started competing more so i got a stable (winter 2010), (to watch his weight and helps keep clean for shows and i can monitor his food better).
Then i also clipped him (winter 2010) so he was rugged up. I kept his stable all through last summer for competing and his weight (bah maybe 2 nighs a week to stay out in the nice weather) and he didnt seem to mind.
Now, hes clipped again and all rugged up, and he doesnt even want to leave the warmth of his stable. When i eventually pull him to his field he stands at the gate until he realises im not instantly coming back for him, the tootles off to eat for a bit, then back at the gate for 2


BUT there is a yearling at out yard who has lived out since the day he was born (even through the snow last winter) with just a sheet. hes in tip top condition and health, just really rude.

So, anyway back to the point of the post- there is no problem with cobs/youngstock living out with no rugs, they manage fine! How else would they still be around today if they didnt?

 

[Spring Feather]

Shh, you can't say that. You aren't allowed to say positive things about the forum! No one is. We're all only allowed to grumble and moan and say how it has gone to the dogs etc...



Interesting that you rug your foals though. Can I ask why? It's a genuine question as I haven't ever known a breeder that does (probably as you say because they cba to check often enough to make it safe!) and I am a nosey bugger and always interested to hear both sides

LOL I think I was more negative than positive Being negative isn't my way but sometimes I have to close my eyes and click onto another thread when I read some of the stuff people post on here

You may I rug my foals as they are often sold over the winter. I live in a very cold part of the world and my youngsters almost always sell to far warmer countries, often in the depths of my winter, so if they grow too fluffy a coat here then their coats are a huge disadvantage to them when they move to far warmer climes. Any youngsters I decide to keep are rugged according to their individual needs.

 

[Fantasy_World]

Good grief, why do threads like this always have to degenerate like this.

Because I think some people on this forum like to score brownie points by making others look like daft *****!
It is totally unnecessary and quite bitchy TBH
No wonder a lot of GOOD people that used to be on this forum upped and left

 

[PolarSkye]

Because I think some people on this forum like to score brownie points by making others look like daft *****!
It is totally unnecessary and quite bitchy TBH
No wonder a lot of GOOD people that used to be on this forum upped and left

Now THIS deserves a "like" button . . . there's constructive criticism and there's rushing to judgment . . . and there's a difference between the two.

Going back into my corner now . . .

P

 

[Fantasy_World]

With regard to the rugging up of broodmares and foals during winter I guess it depends on when they were born, how cold/wet it is, their breeding, any ailments/injuries, access to natural shelter and access to good fodder.
I dislike seeing youngsters left in mud baths tbh, not good for their legs or feet especially.
As for broodmares I can't comment on that as don't know if anyone rugs them up if feeding foals as I would have thought it would be quite dangerous with surcingles and straps and the chance of the foals getting caught up in them.

With regard to other horses then I think it is the owner's choice if they decide to rug their horses up no matter what the weather. So long as the rug is suitable to the climate and the horse itself then I don't think people should be shot down for wishing to rug them up.
In exactly the same way as people who leave unrugged, each to their own and all that.
I don't like to see over rugging though and horses wearing rugs that are too thick for the time of year or even that day. I can understand that the weather can completely change from a horse being turned out in a morning to being brought in at night.
Autumn and Spring perhaps being the worse months in the UK as we have such contrasting weather conditions each year.
I rug mine up usually from September/October in a light weight rug, mainly to keep dry and clean for riding and also to help prevent them from growing a thick winter coat as most of mine don't live out and as I ride all seasons I don't want wet and hairy yaks to groom when I want to ride. My horses also get clipped to help with cooling down after riding and to stop them getting sweaty on hacks.
In summer for the majority of the time they are naked as the weather is better and if it does rain they tend to dry off quick. If there is a lot of rain forecast and I know I will be riding and the weather is not usual summer weather I may stick a lw rug on before I am going to ride. Likewise if any have been bathed and taking to a show/event as one is mainly white and rolls and don't want to see most of my hard work demolished by a roll!
In winter their rugs vary depending on the temperature. I have even used lw rugs in winter if the weather has been warm enough. All of mine have mediums on bar one who is a TB on rehab who is in a heavy at the moment. All are clipped and none are over rugged, even at night. I check on them every morning and night by feeling their skin in places to see how warm they are and none have ever been too warm.

 

[*hic*]

^^^ So if other people attempt to educate, explain or justify it's being bitchy but if you do it it's what precisely?

Oh you do make me laugh, but sadly not in a happy way - and yes, I don't care if that sounds bitchy.

 

[Fantasy_World]

There were some comments on here that were aimed at one user in particular which I did not think were educational but were rather judgemental TBH.
There is a difference

 

[JFTDWS]

I'll never understand why some posters on here get worked up by other posters being "judgemental".

Everybody judges everyone else. That's inevitable. If you see someone doing something, you instantly form an opinion on whether that is acceptable or not, whether they're doing it the same way you would or not, whether it seems to be working or not. In real life, you either choose to comment or not, depending on the situation and whether you feel you should interfere or not, and how interfering a person you are.

When you post on a forum, on a thread like this, you are contributing to a discussion - and your contribution will be judged and responded to as just that. Discussions only progress when view points are offered, analysed and evaluated. Otherwise we're all just talking randomly for no reason.

You can accuse posters of many unpleasant things, but being judgemental seems to lack sting, as it were

 

[5horses2dogsandacat]

I just guess we as humans have it a lot easier, we have central heated houses, cars at our finger tips and a life councillor on speed dial. We don't have to think about how our food got on our plate and if we feel a bit sad we can go to a gp and get anti-depressants.

I guess our softer cotton wool life does rub off on our animals, especially if we are feeling the cold a lot more we think the horses are too.

I think also its a change of breeding and management that means we do have to go to the extremes of rugging. For example the poster with her fell who used to be tough as old boots now can't wait to come into the comforts of his stable.

My tb is rugged in a medium weight t/o, heavy weigh stable and a fleece... I refuse to spend buckets of money to keep him fit and end up feeding the cold. My nfxqh mare is in a heavy weight, Welsh sec a baby is naked and the arabx has a rain sheet. I think rugging keeping the horse in mind has been forgotten, we assume that we're in a jumper, jacket, woolly hat and thermal our horse needs the same in rugs but forget a horse will generate heat naturally from eating hay and they come with theory own thermal underwear and thick winter jacket known as their coat.
I shall quickly now return to my normal corner of keeping my head down and getting on with my ponies...

 

[5horses2dogsandacat]

Excuse spelling and grammar errors I am on my phone :/ stoopid phone.

 

[PolarSkye]

I'll never understand why some posters on here get worked up by other posters being "judgemental".

Everybody judges everyone else. That's inevitable. If you see someone doing something, you instantly form an opinion on whether that is acceptable or not, whether they're doing it the same way you would or not, whether it seems to be working or not. In real life, you either choose to comment or not, depending on the situation and whether you feel you should interfere or not, and how interfering a person you are.

When you post on a forum, on a thread like this, you are contributing to a discussion - and your contribution will be judged and responded to as just that. Discussions only progress when view points are offered, analysed and evaluated. Otherwise we're all just talking randomly for no reason.

You can accuse posters of many unpleasant things, but being judgemental seems to lack sting, as it were

Being judgemental is not just about holding differing opinions, it's also about how you deliver that opinion - about "tone." It's perfectly fine to disagree or offer constructive criticism . . . when it crosses the line of causing offense is when that disagreement is delivered in a tone that is ungenerous and unkind.

I'm pointing no fingers, but I have been on the receiving end of some just posts and it is neither pleasant nor the way reasonable, considerate people express themselves.

I don't wish to speak for Fantasy_World, but my above sentiment is what prompted me to agree with what she said.

Some people on HHO justify their abrupt, and sometimes downright rude, delivery with "it's just my opinion" . . . and I'm choosing to call B/S on that particular practise. It simply isn't necessary.

P

 

[JFTDWS]

I think rugging keeping the horse in mind has been forgotten, we assume that we're in a jumper, jacket, woolly hat and thermal our horse needs the same in rugs but forget a horse will generate heat naturally from eating hay and they come with theory own thermal underwear and thick winter jacket known as their coat.

Well said. That's a judgement too. Nobody ever complains about judgemental posters saying that though

Nobody's saying rugging is bad - just that not rugging is not necessarily cruel - and that rugging indescriminately because of a "fluffy" viewpoint may well be cruel in some cases.

 

[JFTDWS]

Being judgemental is not just about holding differing opinions, it's also about how you deliver that opinion - about "tone." It's perfectly fine to disagree or offer constructive criticism . . . when it crosses the line of causing offense is when that disagreement is delivered in a tone that is ungenerous and unkind.

*******s - that's being rude, ungenerous, unkind etc - not being judgemental. You can complain about those all you like - complaining about posters being judgemental is just daft, imho of course.

 

[Puzzles]

I don't think the original argument has anything to do with 'softness'.
Why do we have to be either 'hard' or 'soft'? Surely the reality of keeping horses and catering for their needs requires both a 'hard' AND 'soft' approach? I.e. rugging the horse if it is cold - if the horse is cold then it should be rugged. That isn't being 'soft'. If the horse is not cold then it needn't be rugged. That isn't being 'hard'.
These days I think that, naturally, we have a better understanding of horses & better communication with them as well as a wider variety of handling/training methods than, say, 50 years ago. Re. the girl in the OP - she is apparently just pretty ignorant about horses!

 

[CarolineJ]

Another cruel owner here - this one's 17 years old and naked on the north coast of Scotland:

He still has about 20kg to lose before the spring grass comes through, I can't even feel his ribs at the moment! But he's grown a coat like a yak and is perfectly warm.