Do you think my horse is lame? *Vid*

BlairandAzria

BlairandAzria

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Hi all,

So here is a little vid lunging my boy ..... would you know - its suprisingly difficult to lunge and film at the same time so sorry if its all bumpy etc... and it was a pretty windy and miserable day :(

Anyway i would be really interested to hear everyones opinions as to his soundness?

I was going to do a bit of an update/ background but think i'll just let you comment on what you see, and then tell you what I think/ know so far afterwards....



Please bear in mind ive only had him a few months and he was a skinny minnie when i got him. I know there is a long way to go (topline and balance are issues) but weve worked so hard on just getting weight and a little bit of muscle on him but i know we've got a long way to go still.

Anyway- what soundness/ lameness issues can you see?


Thanks xxx B xxx
 
I would have preferred to see your horse being lunged without the contraption on - it's hard to see properly with all the ropes etc on.
Some unlevelness issues on near hind?
 
Im thinking he looks sore/ tight on the near hind on the left rein. He seemed to dip his hip on that rein.
Im not used to seeing horses lunged in training aids though, so i might be completely wrong.
Kx
 
He looks happier on the right rein than the left, but generally, no, he doesn't look lame to me. His ears are floppy and relaxed and he's listening. Doesn't seem preoccupied with pain. Really using his hocks too. Maybe a bit of dragging of the toe at walk that could point to possible hock problems, but nothing that really stands out.
 
From what I see on video
He did look a little lame to begin with
Is there anyway to do another video but on hard solid ground as this would detect for sure if there is any lameness or not
Also without the Pessoa on
 
Thanks for the replies so far. RE the pessoa- i was instructed by our vet to use it on him, i know not everyone likes them-( and to each his own opinion, the world would be a very boring place if we were all the same) but I really rate them.

Anyway, i appreciate that the pessoa might be getting in the way- and the sand not ideal- I'll try and take a little vid on hard ground sans pessoa tomorrow.
 
I'm not very good at this but I think there was something wrong with one of the hinds, particularly in walk, on the deeper bits of sand. Had to look for it but the downwards transition looked funny to me.
 
for some reason i can only see a still! picture but he /she is not tracking up properly! imo
so yes there are issues!
 
After looking at it again, he doesnt look overly happy in his hind end both sides, worse on the left rein.
Does he strike off on the correct canter leg on both reins?
You mention you're using the pessoa on the vets advice, so hes rehabing from injury or surgery?
He looks like my TB did when he was injured over his hip, & had extremely tight hamstrings. He also found it hard to bend and couldnt get the correct canter lead on the (worse) affected side.
It will be interesting to hear whats wrong with your boy.
Kx
 
He looks to have bi lateral hind limb lameness to me. Quite difficult to get a true picture of whats going on from the short film, but not working properly behind, and i think he'd probably work even less well behind without the pessoa on. It would be good to see him on the straight and also on hard ground, Is your vet treating his hocks ?
 
Well, I don't think in this stage of his training, tracking up is a huge issue. I can't see any lameness, just a bit of stiffness in the stifles and not swinging through his body so his back may be a bit stiff. Nothing exercise can't sort. tbh, he moves like a horse in a pessoa...

It's very difficult to see with a pessoa as horses tense their shoulders in them and it's quite restrictive as a training aid. Many people swear by them but it is rolkur in every sense of the word. You won't get a true movement in it.
 
i'd rather see him trotting up on a level hard surface to determine lame/sound-ness.

hard to tell while lungeing in a pessoa as he is not in self carriage, or able to move "freely" under his own steam. also the relatively deep sand may be affecting the way of going- ie toe dragging etc.
 
tallyho! said:
Well, I don't think in this stage of his training, tracking up is a huge issue. I can't see any lameness, just a bit of stiffness in the stifles and not swinging through his body so his back may be a bit stiff. Nothing exercise can't sort. tbh, he moves like a horse in a pessoa...

It's very difficult to see with a pessoa as horses tense their shoulders in them and it's quite restrictive as a training aid. Many people swear by them but it is rolkur in every sense of the word. You won't get a true movement in it.
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Well in all honesty the vet doesn't really know whats wrong with him. Hes been intermittently lame in his back end. It was alot worse about a month ago and has improved with work but he is still not right. (People have been saying he looks fine now....and i thought maybe i was 'looking for lameness' so I knew all you experienced and lovely people would be able to spot if i was going mad or not!)

Its definitely his off hind, but im not convinced he's completely sound in either back leg tbh. The vet has said its his opinion that as he's been out of work for at least 18 months- probably more, and was lacking so much muscle, its the lack of muscle has been putting strain onto his stifle and hocks (He has very boney hocks too.) which has been causing the lameness. He does sometimes 'dip' his off hind, and whoever talked about canter leads, he finds it incredibly difficult to strike off on a correct left canter lead.

So, on vets advice I was told to lunge 20 mins everyday in the pessoa, increasing to 20mins pessoa plus 20mins walk/trot on a long rein ridden. We've been walking out a bit on little 20 mins hacks too , as i dont think going round and round everyday with no variation is at all good for them.

So i really was just wondering other peoples opinion as (to me) the vet doesn't seem to be that convincing. Although he is telling me what i want to hear (ie. just work him and he'll come good..) So in addition to my original question, does anyone have any ideas of exercises to strengthen his backend? I'd quite like to vary his constant diet of pessoa lunging!


Many thanks for taking the time to reply, i really appreciate it!

XXB
 
Hello again - has your vet done x-rays - dipping the hip is a classic sign on bone spavin....it' exactly how mine started, and it often bilateral.
 
No I dont think he looks lame. He looks STUNNING!!! A big handsome, responsive, beast - and he moves beautifully in the pessoa, which I think is a fantastic training aid. Will be so jealous today after seeing that vid and knowing what a twonk I have!
 
Hi
I'll tell you what i did with my TB, as i said in an earlier post your boy looks like he did, but his main problem was with the right hip, and he was in muscle spasm over his hindquater.
I had a chiro treat him who also did acupuncture. That was a huge benefit.
On the linge we did lots of transitions. My boy found it nearly impossible to get the r canter lead, when he did get it, he would then change after a few strides.
We did a fair bit of canter, really bowling along. I didnt use any aids, as i dont know how to use them correctly.
Long reining helped him, more mentally to keep him interested, but we were able to do some quaters in and shoulder in.
When we started riding again it was more canter in a light seat, and lateral work to strengthen him and start to supple him up.
I hope some of this might be helpful.
Kx
 
Has your vet done a lameness work up on him, nerve blocks, x-rays etc
If so what did they show ?
Its really hard knowing what to do with an indeterminate diagnosis, tbh he doesn't look like he's backward thinking which is good and gives the impression he may not be sore, but he's not moving as you would expect.
If he was a skinny boy when you got him he's looking not to bad now :)
 
I think asking for a people on a forum to diagnoise your horses lameness is dangerous ground. You need to get the vet to nerve block him and go from there. It could be all manner of things. For example, our horse looked EXACTLY the same as yours on the lunge and he was about 1/10 lame, he was diagoised with bi lateral suspensory injury a couple of weeks ago, yet some one else says hock spavins.
 
Looks more stiff behind than lame to me, left looks worse but both hocks seem to lack flexion, actually looks more so in walk but hard to tell as the surface looks a little deep.
 
Most people will have an opinion based on what they see but this will be formed on their idea of "normal". Sometimes our "normal" gets warped depending on what we become accustomed too.

Like someone else said it's dangerous ground getting forum users to voice their opinions on matters such as this BUT I can 100% see where you are coming from as I'm another who has been accused of looking for things that aren't there (unfortunately I've always been right).

It is hard to tell given he's on a deep surface and has a pessoa on (will say now I'm not a fan of them at all) but there does appear to be *something*. He would ideally need to be seen on soft and hard ground, straight lines and on a circle and also turned tightly and possibly even backed up to get a true picture.

My opinion on what I think I see is irrelevant. What I would say is that as you do not seem confident carrying on as your vet advised (if you did you wouldn't have posted this ;) ) so if possible get a second opinion.

I've been there and got the t-shirt with vets (include the university vet hospital) saying everything is ok when it hasn't been and all I've had is that niggle while everyone cried me as paranoid and unable just to get on with things. So please, look for a vet you can trust and have confidence in. The last thing you want to be doing is following instructions you don't feel are beneficial and could be causing further damage.

Another option may be a physiotherapist. Has he been seen by anyone other than a vet?

Good luck
 
BlairandAzria said:
Well in all honesty the vet doesn't really know whats wrong with him. Hes been intermittently lame in his back end. It was alot worse about a month ago and has improved with work but he is still not right. (People have been saying he looks fine now....and i thought maybe i was 'looking for lameness' so I knew all you experienced and lovely people would be able to spot if i was going mad or not!)

Its definitely his off hind, but im not convinced he's completely sound in either back leg tbh. The vet has said its his opinion that as he's been out of work for at least 18 months- probably more, and was lacking so much muscle, its the lack of muscle has been putting strain onto his stifle and hocks (He has very boney hocks too.) which has been causing the lameness. He does sometimes 'dip' his off hind, and whoever talked about canter leads, he finds it incredibly difficult to strike off on a correct left canter lead.

So, on vets advice I was told to lunge 20 mins everyday in the pessoa, increasing to 20mins pessoa plus 20mins walk/trot on a long rein ridden. We've been walking out a bit on little 20 mins hacks too , as i dont think going round and round everyday with no variation is at all good for them.

So i really was just wondering other peoples opinion as (to me) the vet doesn't seem to be that convincing. Although he is telling me what i want to hear (ie. just work him and he'll come good..) So in addition to my original question, does anyone have any ideas of exercises to strengthen his backend? I'd quite like to vary his constant diet of pessoa lunging!


Many thanks for taking the time to reply, i really appreciate it!

XXB
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What's his history workwise? Sorry if I've missed it.

If you have not had them, and you are insured, I think you need tests for hind leg suspensory desmitis and sacroiliac joint strain, both of which can be very difficult to spot and probably need a scintigraph (megabucks). If you aren't insured then, common things being common, I would treat for spavins which would not include encouraging him to overload his hocks in a pessoa, but let him work in the space where he feels comfortable for a while. If the pessoa is definitely helping (as opposed to masking, which you know when he works without it) then ignore that.


I think he's unsound, possibly both hinds but definitely the left one. I wish I had posted before you when I watched your video this morning so you knew it was independent opinion! He has exactly the same action, that fools a lot of people into thinking he's sound, as my spavined horse had.
 
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To be honest the filming is jumpy so how anyone could offer advice amazes me. On a second look yes he does look lame. If your vet doesn't know what's wrong then why have they told you to work him in a pessoa? Would have to say he looks well rounded on the video (not skinny). I think your vet needs to do xrays and scans!! Have they not suggested this?
 
I honestly can't tell, but if your vet can't fathom the intermittent lameness I would recommend getting a second opinion/ scans/ x-rays if you can afford to. Or, potentially get a physio of some from out (I really rate McTimoney practitioners) out- Reg gets a bit funny behind occasionally and it always stems from being sore in his back (now worked out this is due to his dressage saddle, which fitted 3 months ago, not fitting now... Grr!).
 
i would never lunge a horse with suspected stifle or hock or pelvic probs until diagnosed conclusively, and only as remedial work, he does drop his hip on one stride to left in trot to me.
if he is unfit i would expect him to do all sorts of floppy, disjointed accidental mis-steps
i fail to see why a horse of his conformation and movement would need to be trussed up like christmas turkey in all that crap, well that's what it looks like to me, when he could be gently ridden and ALLOWED to stretch from time to time, and vary from bending to straight lines,
i think gadgets like this are an abomination, he must be aching like hell after 20 minutes of forced posture and continuous circling.
sorry if its not what you want to hear but he is nice horse.
 
Basically the vet has been out twice 1st time was 5 weeks ago, where the vet did flexion tests, trotted him up on concrete and turned in a tight circle on both reins. The flexion test from his left hind was not too bad at all. So the diagnosis then was uncertain, but hind-leg lameness, possibly to do with hips, possibly his hocks with possible soreness through his back from a previous ill-fitting saddle. (At this point i'd already had the saddle-fitter out and got him a correctly fiting saddle). He was prescribed 1 bute a day for two weeks and twenty minutes in the pessoa daily to try and build up some muscle as he was seriously lacking.

The vet then returned after two weeks and saw him trot up and down, and tight circles on both reins. Said no more bute, increase workload to 20mins pessoa plus 20 mins ridden- but just walk trot. He said he was looking loads better physically and moving alot more freely, already built up a bit of muscle in the two weeks, still unsound but getting better. So was pretty convinced that it was just a case of lack of muscle causing strain on his joints which was causing the lameness. He didnt do any other tests or scans and i am insured.

In anycase, i forgot my camera today, and as some others have said I am aware that it is a dangerous game asking strangers on an open forum for a diagnosis- and probably not good for my sanity either. So i thank you all heartily for you opinions and advice, i am glad to know im not imagining things. I think I will give the vet a quick ring tomorrow just to clarify things with him, and his thoughts on time-frames etc. Thank you to millreef and Achinghips for being so nice about him - after coming to have him in a very round-a-bout way just a few months ago, and him having sat doing nothing very much-for 3 yrs and sitting in a stable for the last 18months I am so proud of the horse he his becoming. I love him with all my heart.

And to circe, thank you for your exercise suggestions, ive been doing quite a bit of basic lateral work, but will definitely go back to doing a bit of long-reining with him too, and i might start a bit of canter work into his routine too.


So, thank you all again for the advice, and taking the time to respond to me, it's very much appreciated!

xxB
 
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