Do you think show jumpers over-bit their horses?

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MagicMelon

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After watching Hickstead and seeing some crazy amount of bitting going on - Do you think show jumpers over-bit their horses? And if so, why do you think they do?

I just think its a bit odd when you dont tend to see such huge weird gadgety bits in other disiplines, like on eventers etc.? Why is it that show jumping horses are apparently far stronger and more of a hand full than others?
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Some showjumpers do over-bit their horse, definitely, and some people only put a bit on their horse beause is
it's "fashionable" when the horse could be happy in a plain snaffle.
 
I do not worry about professional riders, it is the people that will copy them to convince themselves and others they are better riders than they are.
 
That post came out looking slightly dodgy sorry
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Due to silly HHO errors...
Some showjumpers do over-bit their horse, definitely, and some people only put a bit on their horse because it's "fashionable" when the horse could be happy in a plain snaffle.
 
As I couldn't ride one side of most of those horses I can't pass judgement, but......I would rather a horse be over-bitted and responsive, than under-bitted and hauled around and maybe being a danger to himself and his rider. Perhaps they aren't bitted up like that at home.

This doesn't really compare, or maybe it does, I used to hunt a rather dizzy arab on the Welsh mountains. I rode him in a hackamore at home, tried a snaffle out hunting and he almost killed both of us by diving off the side of a mountain, we did The Man from Snowy River bit down something practically vertical that I'd rather not have gone down. So when hunting I used a myler long shank combination with double reins,the result was a sane, safe horse who respected the bit and was a pleasure to ride again who came home without a mark on his mouth.
 
I think CotswoldSJ has hit the nail on the head tbh.

Most SJ'ers I know will always start out with a the most basic snaffle available...and work it up from there until they get something that does the jon they need it to.

It is only SJ'ing that requires a horse to shorten from a pretty much flatout gallop to complete collection in the space of two strides, and it is only SJ'ing that requires horses to do so whilst jumping a course of fences at over 5 feet high.

There are loads of eventers who change their bits for each phase of the event too....and remember, just because a bit looks complex doesn't necessarily mean it is severe
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I saw some of those bits and thought exactly the same, one was riding in a bit that was a metal box nearly as big as the horses head - perhaps someone can tell me what it was - have never seen one of those before!

I am always a fan of a snaffle and some decent schooling, but I guess most of those guys know how to school and ride a bit better than me, seems a shame though as I share GT's concerns there are plenty of people out there who will bit their horses up to the eyeballs and ride with their hands instead of getting lessons and learning to balance their horses properly. The professionals should remember who is watching the telly!

Only other thing to say - I am not brave when it comes to jumping but you couldn't have paid me enough to make me take a horse over that course and I would have had a nervous breakdown at the thought of that bank in those conditions! Weren't there some brave horses trying their best!
 
There is no doubt that fashion plays a big part in both biting, and many other aspects in the turn out. As a long retired Master Saddler, in a predominately hunting area, I was lucky if I sold two Waterford bits a year, now, reading this forum, one might be forgiven for thinking this bit is the panacea! Whilst on my soap-box, might I say how much I cringe when I see a reply "I am no expert, but ****" followed by some totally incorrect advise. Please leave this to the more knowlegeable, before an accident happens!
 
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Grade D?? Whats a Grade D?

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Registered Pony (below 14.2) that has not won any money. I suppose that would actually be a JD if being totally accurate.
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As for over bitting? Certainly at the lower levels a lot of the horses are over bitted. At GP level the power required to jump the fences is awesome. This power has to be like a spring hence the front end control to hold the back end power until released. Add in to the equation related distances, say a 3 stride then imagine how fast you need the horse to respond in just 1 stride from landing to coiled spring, and of course most of these horses are not weaklings
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Commented to OH when watching the derby that SJ is a bit brutal and I dont mean that in a derogatory way. It's a simple fact of life that you cant run a F1 car using fiesta brakes and handling.
The power delivery for top SJ is very different from dressage. SJ is a series of controlled explosions where dressage is all about smooth application of power.
Dont agree with all the over bitting at lower levels though. The power level required is significantly less so no excuse for it.
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Ohhhh i know JD but had never heard of Grade D!

I think it was Ben Maher who had some weird contraption on his horses head in the Derby, couldn't work out what it was and it didn't seem to help him either!
 
Yes, some of those bits did have a lot of metal, but it would only be an assumption on my part that this made them strong bits. I've no idea what the precise action is but very few of those horses seemed to be objecting to the bit.

Although having said that I am sure in some cases fashion does play a part (would not imagine many professional riders would buy in to this when they are on horses worth a small fortune, but just a guess?)

I was a bit unsure when I first saw the myler combination as it looks quite gadgety but now think it is a milder bit than a standard snaffle.

I had a mare that was dangerous in anything other than a gag, it was safer for both me and her to have her in a 'strong' bit and although the bit didn't look nice it looked a lot nicer than me pulling her mouth off in a milder bit, although people still seemed to think I was wrong for using it.
 
I did notice tho that a lot of people were either riding at hickstead in the derby in those contraption thingys or simple happy mouth snaffles. Comments were made about horses being difficult in the mouth, I had tried one of those combination bits, with a hackamore and mouth piece joined and they do take some precision riding but if your horse is difficult it makes it easier coming into a 1.60 to be able to make a correction then leave it alone as most of the riders in combination contraptions seemed to. As for the happy mouth snaffles I do like to see people jumping at that level in them and some didn't even have martingales. Overall all the bits did seem to benefit the horses, but I do think that fashion plays a part. I can remember when everyone had kimblewicks with standing martingales, more recently in dressage everyone had gone back to drop nosebands which used to be considered really old fashioned and I think waterfords are the next big fashion thing.
 
I agree with what others have said regarding the need for precision, which is exactly the same in dressage - why do you think top dressage horses wear double bridles?

I've also seen some weird and wonderful bits out on the x-country course....

I would just like to add that not all snaffles are mild and in fact the nutcracker action on some horses is quite severe! I would much rather see the likes of Robert W using a Hackamore/snaffle combi with two reins with very good seat & hands
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, than what you see at some local shows - novices hauling about on their poor horses mouth
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I don't do jumping much, certainly not show jumping although I do enjoy watching Hickstead on TV. I think it would make an interesting feature for the programme if they spent a bit of time explaining what these bits are, what they do and why some horses need them. It would certainly make it more interesting for those of us who are ignorant about such things.
 
I have no problem with top riders using a lot of bit for their horses, they know what they are doing or they wouldn't have got that far in the first place. I just hate seeing less skilled riders using severe bits when they *think* their horse is strong. (Some of these people only hack at walk and trot and completely over bit their horses) and they have never schooled them. However, I would rather a small child rode their pony in something that they can stop them in - like a pelham as little ponies can be strong and I hate seeing children carted!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
There is no doubt that fashion plays a big part in both biting, and many other aspects in the turn out. As a long retired Master Saddler, in a predominately hunting area, I was lucky if I sold two Waterford bits a year, now, reading this forum, one might be forgiven for thinking this bit is the panacea! Whilst on my soap-box, might I say how much I cringe when I see a reply "I am no expert, but ****" followed by some totally incorrect advise. Please leave this to the more knowlegeable, before an accident happens!

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope that was simply QR and not aimed at me personally
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I think at lower levels there should be a lot more money spent on flatwork lessons and a lot less spent on buying the next wonder gadget thats going to solve all your problems.
Every problem i see jumping always relates to some schooling issue, so long as the horse jumps and most like anything do up to a point.
Having worked on the continent in a yard where the husband was on the world cup circuit showjumping and the wife dressage we used to 'swop horses' to give them a change and all the Grand prix showjumpers could do Prix st George dressage and gain points and all could be ridden in snaffles. There are always exceptions but on the whole continental riders seem far less likely to stick contraptions on their horses they are a lot more skilled at work on the flat from a young age and therefore much more able physically to balance and contain their power to get the result required.
One thing i have noticed is , since returning from training on the continent Robert Whittaker is a lot more balanced and a lot less' bitted' and a lot better for it.
For me its about time patience and education, over bitting to me means a gap in training and therefore a short cut.
 
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I do not worry about professional riders, it is the people that will copy them to convince themselves and others they are better riders than they are.

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that is so true! I would never put a horse in a stronger bit than a snaffle if i can get away with it! Some a just too strong but would never go to those extremes!
 
Actually most of the bits are no way near as bad as they look

The excess of metal was caused by using a German hackamore with a snaffle, although with a rounding (which is new trend)

So why this set up - probably because too strong a pull on the mouth would stop the forward flow, so it alternates on the nose. This set up would also stop the mouth from being ripped if soft mouth.

You have to bear in mind a non-forward going horse is not going to clear 4ft 6" let alone bigger. So they normally need brakes, but without stoppping the implusion, which is a tricky feat.

Agreed fashion drives bit purchases, but trying to say that top professionals are overbitting is a nonsense coming from the equine community that won't (cannot?) jump over 1.20!
 
Agree showjumpers ride with much lighter hands they need the safty belt of a effective bit because they must have the horse in thier hands. Snaffle and find your self huling for dear life or stronger bit just to remind the horse when needs be. I ride a few young showjumpers in pelhams which is over bitting for four year olds but the are gentleman in them other wise there is little control I ride them with very light hands (They rear and tense up if anything else anyhow) I also think most showjumpers have that 'let me at the fence' attitude and often lose respect, just my experience anyhow.
 
Any bit can be severe if used poorly. I think we can all be guilty of following "trends" when it comes to what we use on our horse and I too have seen some rather weird and wonderfull bits on the xc course.
As long as the rider rides well with light sympathetic hands I dont see a problem, can't stand seeing some poor horse having its back teeth haulled at.
I don't show jump but I can see just how technical the course builders are getting, you realy don't have time between fences to waste a single stride setting things up, the horse has to be there with you. And surely the BSJA rules are like BE's as in abuse from poor use of a bit is a massive no no.
 
The quickest way to stop a horse from jumping is to put a too strong a bit in their mouth, and has all those horses were jumping their bits weren't too strong for them.

If you were jumping for £40K 1st prize, would you go for a bit that was fashionable or worked for your horse?

As for Copycats, I would think these really obscure bits are around the £200 mark, so the average person isn't going to be running out and buying one of those.
 
QR

Most of these horse would be ridden in a snaffle at home. I worked for a chap that went round in the Derby & has won in the past. All his at home were only ever ridden in a snaffle of some sort. But when at home we weren't jumping courses like that. We use to do lots of flat work.

I would prefer a slightly stronger bit & lighter hands than a plain snaffle & having to haul on their mouth.

Unlike Lucinda Green up was pleased to see Lucinda Fredricks not following the trend to put a stronger bit in to Brit for the XC of Badders & not affraid to take a few pulls on her!!...(Was her commentary on the TV coming out f the water) (I am not condonning either of these two) Just my personal pref would be slightly stronger bit for more harmonous round. Though I would imagine that Brit wouldn't like a different bit & would stop if you changed????
 
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The difference is precision

You don't have time to haul and arrange the knitting

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Very well put!! SJing requires tight turns, accuracy and instant response from neddy. I can jump PF in a straight bar happy mouth snaffle OR a gag (or more recently a french link tom thumb) but there's less arguing going on with the gag and I find I ride lighter, especially on her mouth!
 
With regard to the comment about the F1 car not working with Fiesta brakes (lol), what about eventers? I think they are fitter than your average show jumper (although of course they are fit as well!) so Id assume that they'd need pretty hefty bits for XC. XC is very much about precision as well, especially when coming into a very complex combination. And they also dont have that much time (albeit probably a bit longer than SJers do) to faff about hauling on their horses because it wastes a lot of time.

Robert Whitaker - Personally I dont think Finbar (is that how you spell it?) looks that happy in the weird contraption he has it in. Of course, I totally respect these riders and I totally understand that they know EXACTLY what they're doing with every piece of tack they use. I just wondered why these bits weren't used elsewhere (when like I say, IMO XC horses are likely to be stronger and still need precision and a hell of a lot of power to go over bounces / up steps etc. which SJers dont).

Please nobody think Im slagging the pro's off at all! I was just interested to see others views on it simply because I saw such weird bits in the Derby.
 
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