do you think twitching horses is cruel?

Yes, it definitely has its place and we have used it on more than one occasion. However, a vet twitched our pony to x ray and put a Robert Jones on her leg when she had a fracture. The twitch was kept on for far too long and the poor mare had a swollen muzzle which was obviously numb, and then painful for quite some time. :(
 
nose twitching - yes, if done by a calm, competent person who can get the twitch on quickly and efficiently rather than how ive seen it done sometimes by some fool grabbing at the horse's nose while shouting at it to keep its head still until the horse was 10 times more stressed than it would have been without one.

neck twitching - most preferable method by twisting a 2 inch piece of skin between the fingers but not always as successful

ear twitching - NEVER
 
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Yes it's cruel, yes it's proven to be painful, yes it's sometimes necessary.

I'm willing to nose twitch for emergencies but I feel it's inappropriate for most other things.

I've tried to find information about the science and there doesn't yet seem to be much concrete on how exactly it works but from what I've read it seems unlikely to me that endorphins are why horses will stay still while twitched. (endorphins are released slowly twitching works instantly plus result should improve over time as actually often wears off) so it seems more likely that it's a pain response perhaps coupled with something else not yet understood.
 
equi said:
It has it's place but i don't like to see it abused or people use it as a faster way to "train"
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you wont train a horse to do anything by using a twitch as it floods the brain with endorphines which shuts it down to outside stimulli
 
Haven't read previous posts, but in answer to OP's question.

I don't think twitching is any more "cruel" than using a chiffney. I would only ever use any one of these "solutions" in extreme circumstances tho' - and that would be (a) if there was a danger of the horse injuring itself if not applied and/or (b) if there is a danger to humans in the vicinity if not applied.

For example: if a horse was say at a show and was throwing a hooley, and needed restraining because there were people around and there would be significant danger posed if the horse got loose, then yes I would use a twitch/chiffney.

The other situation would be if deemed necessary under the instructions of a vet.
 
If it's done properly by a competent handler then no, safety must come first. I twitch my lad to clip his head, if I don't he chucks his head about and gets stroppy and bargey -twitch on, head clipped in minutes.
One thing I do not like however is ear twitching, that, for me has no place and I do deem that cruel.
 
rhino said:
But surely if your horse is trained correctly you shouldn't need to twitch? ;) :D

Don't mind twitching when necessary. As long as you don't try it with my little chestnut, unless you have very good life insurance!
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Don't be daft - you can't train a horse to be quiet in all situations! I have found that twitching has worked very well with some horses - have had a horse needing attention to a cut leg, that would kick me out the stable - but when I applied a twitch stood like a lamb - over the course of a weeks treatment it was happily looking for the loop of biner twine to popo over its nose (we use the old fashioned stick with string thing....) and I have had other horses that go completely bananas as soon as it is applied - then we head for the far more expensive sedaline solution!
 
I had never actually seen a twitch used before until my loan horse had an eye infection, I had battled and tried to persuade him to let me bathe his eye but it wasn't happening! Vet came, popped a twitch on and I held it while vet bathed and did ointment, horse was completely compliant and it was done in 2 minutes.

For the next week I had to syringe the ointment into his eye and it was really a nightmare! I did not have a twitch nor would I know how tight or loose etc to put it on myself, we got there in the end but I did catch him on the eyelid once :-( would have been way safer to twitch if I knew what to do!

Would probably allow a twitch for feet trims if it was dangerous (I had a terrible farrier visit with this horse, I was covered in bruises, surprised farrier continued really! Hopefully training it out of him gradually.)
 
I have used and will use again, a twitch. This has been when a horse needed to be kept still for treatment/handling which was for its benefit. I have used it on a horse which would not/could not allow the farrier to pick up her feet for trimming. She would allow me to do virtually anything with her feet, but was genuinly terrified of the farrier (we think she associated the smell with a bad experience). We tried both sedaline and twitching, as we needed both me and the farrier to be safe. We use a twitch rarely, but always have one hanging in the tack room, ready for use.
 
No it's necessary sometimes ,if a horse is injured for instance twitching is a way do whats needed protecting the horse and people ,a muzzle one though never on the ear.
 
Enfys said:
This.

Better a twitched horse than a dead one, or a dead handler.

Little scenario here, horses with blood pumping out of a cut leg, won't let anyone get near it, are you going to stand there and say "There, there itsy bitsy oogle woogle ums, we won't squeeze your nosey wosey because it is cruel" and faff about while his blood pools around his feet? Or slip a twitch on, get some pressure on the bleed and save his life?

Can anyone who said 'Yes it is cruel" honestly say that if push came to shove they would not allow a twitch to be used if no other method of restraint worked?
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I try not to use one, as I dont like it, but when push comes to shove, safety means everything, so in certain circumstances, then yes i would use a twitch, but never an ear twitch, thats just too cruel!!!
 
Ned is nose twitched to do one of his shoes and kept quiet with food for the other. He's been checked and there's no reason he should be this way.
The farrier puts the twitch on for me and I just hold it. He really needs it, we tried it without and he made the farrier bleed, got him with a nail! He's such a good lad (the farrier!!) he doesn't need to do bad horses like Ned, but he does :) The farrier was telling me about different types of twitches and from what he told me, the nose twitch doesn't seem too bad, but neither of us would ever do an ear twitch!
 
just googled and I have clearly led a sheltered life - I am now enlightened that there are also such things as a lip chain which passes between the top lip and gum (sounds a bit ouchy if the horse yanked on it!) and an 'indian sliptwitch' which is basically the same but made of rope, and finally a contraption called 'the stableizer' which is a sort of advanced version, curious indeed....

http://www.udderlyez.com/stableizer.php

I guess it doesn't look like the worst thing in the world for twitching purposes but galloping in it seems unusual!
 
I have seen, and learned to use the gum line/lip rope whatever you like to call it, same thing, my farrier prefers it to a twitch, and I was dubious, but it does have a similar effect to the twitch in that it calms the horse but they don't become 'out of it' like some do with a twitch.
 
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If not done by someone experienced enough then yes I think it can be cruel. I do however agree that it has its place, but wouldn't be something I would do unless I was in a situation where it was my only option I.e injured horse like Enfys said.
Our old pony had always been twitched for clipping, mane pulling, jabs etc. when we first got him he was on loan and the his owner clipped him for us, twitching him. By the end he was bleeding and completely withdrawn. Took a while for him to trust us, but once we had bought him and moved him away we spent time working with him quietly gaining his trust and lots of praise, and we could clip, pull, jab, clean his sore mudfever with no probems at all. I think some people us it as a short cut to get a horse to co-operate when a little time and patience would go a long way.
 
all about Romeo said:
Yes I do think its cruel... I am aware of the science behind it but I always say "would you stay still if someone had hold of your hair?" people usually go quiet after that.
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Sorry, completely different - you only have to look into the eye of a horse that has been twitched to realise that something completely different to "submission" is going on in there.
 
Broke_But_Happy said:
Out of interest, for those who twitch what is the maximum amount of time you would leave the twitch on for?

.
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The calming endorphins released from the horse's brain, in response to the application of the twitch, gradually wear off, and, as that happens, there is a corresponding rise in adrenaline levels in response to the situation and the stimuli.

All horses should be carefully monitered when twitched, so that their state can be determined and the twitch removed before the adrenalin counter-balances the effects of the calming endorphins as, at some point, this will cause a violent reaction in the horse.

Twelve to fifteen minutes is generally a safe amount of time to use a twitch before giving the horse a short break. Any longer is getting into dangerous territory.

Of course all this depends on the state of the horse before the twitch is applied. If the twitch is applied quietly, when the horse is not greatly influenced by adrenaline, the safe period may be correspondingly lengthened.
 
My mare is twitched for 5-10 mins every time I clip her. She is great to clip so it's not the noise of the clippers. She is just incredibly sensitive and tickly in front of her back legs and will attempt to stop me doing this by kicking, squashing me. IMO much more preferable to twitch for a short time than put sedative in her body. She goes sleepy when twitched.

I also used one after her eye operation to get the drops in (had to be done 5x a day so sedative not an option). After a few days we were able to put the drops in without a twitch and by the end of two weeks I could put them in in the field without putting a headcollar on. The twitch definitely had a training effect then.

I wouldn't use an ear twitch. Have done a quick neck twitch occasionally for vet or farrier.
 
AengusOg said:
The calming endorphins released from the horse's brain, in response to the application of the twitch, gradually wear off, and, as that happens, there is a corresponding rise in adrenaline levels in response to the situation and the stimuli.

All horses should be carefully monitered when twitched, so that their state can be determined and the twitch removed before the adrenalin counter-balances the effects of the calming endorphins as, at some point, this will cause a violent reaction in the horse.

Twelve to fifteen minutes is generally a safe amount of time to use a twitch before giving the horse a short break. Any longer is getting into dangerous territory.

Of course all this depends on the state of the horse before the twitch is applied. If the twitch is applied quietly, when the horse is not greatly influenced by adrenaline, the safe period may be correspondingly lengthened.
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Re my post above, our pony was twitched for ,I believe, around 45 minutes without the twitch being released!
 
Cedars said:
We twitch, nose twitch. So kill me.
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What do you use a twitch for? Anyone who twitches for personal entertainment is obviously an idiot and is being cruel to the horse, imo. Anyone who twitches in an emergency situation in order to keep everyone safe is obviously doing the sensible thing, so not cruel. In between is a grey area. For example, what about twitching for clipping, where there are alternatives like spending time desensitizing the horse to the clippers but the owner was "couldn't be bothered with all that"? Personally I think that's just laziness and poor horsemanship, but not everyone would agree.
 
AengusOg said:
Of course all this depends on the state of the horse before the twitch is applied. If the twitch is applied quietly, when the horse is not greatly influenced by adrenaline, the safe period may be correspondingly lengthened.
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Good point. Also, some horses appear to be resistant to twitching right from the start. Whether this is because they enter an adrenalized state much sooner, or because they simply don't respond with the usual endorphin release, I don't know. Imo, it's worth finding out if your horse is a poor responder before you actually come to using a twitch in earnest.
 
Nose twitch but never ear. I do twitch to clip heads- my horses are comfortable and calm being clipped, but all the desensitisation in the world will nog prevent some of them disliking vibration and noise on their head. I'd rather twitch for five minutes and keep the whole thing stress free than have an issue and teach the horse clipping can be something to get worked up about. Also twitch to clip tendons and faces for safety- what if they suddenly pulled a leg or moved their head quickly? I wouldn't want to risk nicking a tendon or going near an eye.
 
It depends on the horse. My own lad gets really angry after he's been twitched. I only did it once as he was rearing etc with the farrier. Never again. He is now barefoot. Other horses it just doesn't work on. But we have a cob here who will not allow a vet near him or clippers. He responds really well to the twich and obviously goes to a 'happy place'. When I clip him he has to have the twitch on around five times for 5 minutes at a time. He puts his nose out for it to be put on each time.
 
Not keen but it depends what its for & who's using it. Emergencies, yes, fine. To do something like pull a tail, no. Clippings a grey area. I'd rather see one twitched for a short time than be uncomfortable all winter because it needs clipping, provided every effort is made to accustom the horse to not need twitching. Whilst I wouldn't want to use one to clip ears, or pull manes, as long as its used correctly I wouldn't call someone cruel who did choose to.
Ear twitching never. I could possibly understand it in a life & death scenario, but otherwise it is vile. Never met a properly nose twitched horse with adverse effects, but never met an ear twitched one who didn't remember it negatively.
 
littlelegs said:
Ear twitching never. I could possibly understand it in a life & death scenario, but otherwise it is vile. Never met a properly nose twitched horse with adverse effects, but never met an ear twitched one who didn't remember it negatively.
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Agree I looked at an ISH who had obviously been ear twitched and he was practically head shy poor boy.
 
one technique for subduing a foal was recently taught to me by a vet when i was in attendance and acting as veterinary nurse to a 3 week old foal that had been savaged by a dog that needed a general aneasthetic administered in order to start the (3hour) stitching process, was to stand head on to the foal, take hold of both of its ears at the base and pull towards you as hard as you could.

Luckily, for its young age the foal had been well handled as even if it hadn't been going into shock by then (which it was ) getting close enough to use this technique might have been hard. As we had bigger things to worry about at the time i didnt ask how this method worked but must assume it was an endorphine release and the foal stood stock still long enough for us to find a vein in its neck and set up a drip.

This seemed very humane method and i would definitely use the technique again on smaller ponies if the need arose in future.
 
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