Doctors vs vets

Perhaps because medical students do 5/6 years instead of 3! My daughter did a first degree (got a 1st from a Russell group uni) and has done another 4 yrs as a graduate entry med student so 7 years in all, her starting salary is £22k. I don't think she's overpaid for a 25 year old with top qualifications but then again, I'm very biased!
ester said:
Yes, most degree students come out with lots of debt these days, I'm not sure why doctors should be see as a special case on that tbh.
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oldie48 said:
Perhaps because medical students do 5/6 years instead of 3! My daughter did a first degree (got a 1st from a Russell group uni) and has done another 4 yrs as a graduate entry med student so 7 years in all, her starting salary is £22k. I don't think she's overpaid for a 25 year old with top qualifications but then again, I'm very biased!
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Doctors have to spend much of their working lives in continuing professional development, all of which entails ongoing training. I'm sure Vets have similar training needs.
If we all want good care we must support Doctors to increase their skills. Many Doctors have to self fund and most have to complete and publish research before progressing with their career.
 
well i grew up in a very small village in the 70's where the gp was also the vet! quite a lot of old folks used to smell of horse linament i think it was quite a popular remedy for rheumatics. but i do think the nhs should now only be for basics and we should take the responsibility for our own healthcare . the nhs simply cant cope with the numbers of people its ment to take care of anymore
 
Archiepoo said:
well i grew up in a very small village in the 70's where the gp was also the vet! quite a lot of old folks used to smell of horse linament i think it was quite a popular remedy for rheumatics. but i do think the nhs should now only be for basics and we should take the responsibility for our own healthcare . the nhs simply cant cope with the numbers of people its ment to take care of anymore
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Maybe higher taxes on junk food - it would be a small start, to plough more money in. get rid of middle management and bring back Matron too.
 
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Can you imagine if everyone in this country thought that they were getting free treatment of their pets, on call 24/7 no weekends/ no bank holidays? Your vet would also have a stupid waiting list and ridiculous appointment times, and results. I rue the day the no nonsense GP moved from our practice, I could get an appointment with her anytime. She referred me straight to hospital with a prolapse disc, and the surgery followed soon after. She sent the MIL packing with a sniffle. If everyone used the NHS like they should do then there would be no long waiting lists, but sadly this government have realised people don't, so we will soon have to pay for our care, and it will be the same as at the vets! Can't pay? You've had it!
 
I have decided not to use the NHS if I can help it, if I needed long, expensive treatment I shall refuse it as money would be better spent on people much better than me - like those with kids and families etc.
 
Whilst not perfect, and generally unhappy people shout the loudest, we are incredibly lucky to have the NHS. I was talking to a German colleague, they have to pay for their healthcare via insurance. This is on top of their NI & tax.
I have always had extremely good care from a major road accident in my teens, 4 births, 2 major ops. Ok, things get cancelled, run late etc but it is free and I have walked away mended as much as I could be.
I feel for the frontline staff these days, too many generals and not enough foot soldiers. And it is the front liners that have to put up with the complaints. There will always be missed, wrongly diagnosed issues but at least we're not paying for them (I appreciate we do pay indirectly but nowhere near the full cost).
 
A routine day for me is travelling our catchment area dealing with crisis situations. There is not enough time in the day and the office phone never stops ringing.
We still do a great job taking into account staff shortages and ongoing cutbacks ,before we get round to tacking the paperwork.
 
oldie48 said:
Perhaps because medical students do 5/6 years instead of 3! My daughter did a first degree (got a 1st from a Russell group uni) and has done another 4 yrs as a graduate entry med student so 7 years in all, her starting salary is £22k. I don't think she's overpaid for a 25 year old with top qualifications but then again, I'm very biased!
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Well many vets start on less than 22k, plenty of people do 4/5 year degrees and frankly you do kind of know how long the courses are before you start them and doing 2 undergrad degrees is always going to cost money (although more if you want to do vet as definitely no financial assistance then).
As a 28 year old with 7 years of university education behind me and a PhD I started on £26k, I don't think I am overpaid either but then we didn't really go into it for the money ;) and knew that at the time. For docs even more so it is pretty spelled out what is likely to be the case pay and career wise.
I just don't think it is an argument that they should be using as I think it becomes a bit of a sliding scale as to where you stop with regards to paying to do a degree and then doing a not well paid public service.
 
Well yes, of course she knew how long the training would be, that's not my point. I have no idea what your PhD subject is but you do have a choice of whom you work for and if you want to continue your training. Junior doctors can only work within the NHS if they wish to be doctors so they are subject to the salary and working conditions of their contract with the NHS trust they work for, which is nationally agreed (different in Scotland and Wales, though). Junior doctors work very anti social shifts and very long hours, yes they do get overtime but they can't pick and choose when they want to work unless they locum. I can only speak for my daughter but she is totally committed to being a doctor and certainly didn't go into it for the money, she could have earned over £100K in the last four years and has paid £27K in tuition fees (I have deducted the NHS bursary). However, and this was the starting point of my contribution to the post, she and her boyfriend (also a med student) together with many of their fellows are seriously thinking of working abroad because of the new contract which is being imposed. It's not the money which is the issue, it's the working conditions and potential threat to patient safety which is their biggest concern. They also want to have a life where they can spend time with family. If you spread doctors more thinly, which the new contract will do, you don't improve the service you are just robbing Peter to pay Paul!
ester said:
Well many vets start on less than 22k, plenty of people do 4/5 year degrees and frankly you do kind of know how long the courses are before you start them and doing 2 undergrad degrees is always going to cost money (although more if you want to do vet as definitely no financial assistance then).
As a 28 year old with 7 years of university education behind me and a PhD I started on £26k, I don't think I am overpaid either but then we didn't really go into it for the money ;) and knew that at the time. For docs even more so it is pretty spelled out what is likely to be the case pay and career wise.
I just don't think it is an argument that they should be using as I think it becomes a bit of a sliding scale as to where you stop with regards to paying to do a degree and then doing a not well paid public service.
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As I said I just don't think it is what they should be using as the basis for any argument re. better terms because it isn't just them. I know a lot of teachers who have done the same and gone abroad for similar reasons, my sister is off next year.
I think kit279's point on a previous thread about the numbers going into those specialisms requiring more emergency cover will go down with the new contracts. As she said why not be a dermatologist and do 9-5 :)
 
Wundahorse said:
Doctors have to spend much of their working lives in continuing professional development, all of which entails ongoing training. I'm sure Vets have similar training needs.
If we all want good care we must support Doctors to increase their skills. Many Doctors have to self fund and most have to complete and publish research before progressing with their career.
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The majority of working professionals have to keep CPD if they want to practice, that is a necessary evil of all professional work.

I can't see how anyone can reasonably compare a vet practice to the NHS.
 
Yes, that's a good point, this is happening now and why the wait in A&E can be so long. A friend made me laugh recently when she told me her daughter had become a dermatologist because no-one is ever called out in the middle of the night to a bad rash. As a retired teacher and governor of a school, I can sympathise with your sister. Teaching has become a very tough profession with long hours etc but the training and exams don't go on for years after qualification and I wasn't rostered to work night and weekends as a matter of course. But lets agree to differ, shall we? Good luck with your career, whatever that is, I hope you are well rewarded and respected.
ester said:
As I said I just don't think it is what they should be using as the basis for any argument re. better terms because it isn't just them. I know a lot of teachers who have done the same and gone abroad for similar reasons, my sister is off next year.
I think kit279's point on a previous thread about the numbers going into those specialisms requiring more emergency cover will go down with the new contracts. As she said why not be a dermatologist and do 9-5 :)
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