Dodgy vettings

Birker, you were very unlucky with Lari. The Cheshire vet you used, although I have never used him, has a decent rep and is not known to be dodgy. I’d have PM’d you at the time if I’d have known of anything fishy.

It does seem highly likely that Lari was buted to the hilt both when you tried him and when he was vetted. Did you get the bloods run?
 
Landcruiser said:
I got totally shafted by a very well known, elderly (now dead I think) vet who was in the pocket of the dealer I bought my first criollo from, about 15 yrs or so ago. (I was a complete novice then and stupidly relied on the vetting of the dealer recommended vet as I didn't have my own). He agreed with dealer that horse was 6-7 yrs old (the age I was looking for), and otherwise well and sound, passed a full vetting. horse went lame within weeks and was on off lame for years until fully retiring about 6 yrs in. Dentist reckoned horse was at least 10 yrs older than stated, had missing molar also. Horse was covered in scars and very crook, an absolute bottomless well of vet bills. Horse died a pasture pet last year, aged most likely 30+
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Oh god, me too! If the dealer’s name began with a M and the vets surname with an O.

I think my horse was younger than I was told but the vet totally ‘missed’ a pus oozing injury under his jaw (horse was pretty hairy as it was winter). He cost me a lot of money that first year as he also had a broken tooth (but I doubt that would have been picked up) and then got kicked on his hock.

Saying all that he has been a brilliant little horse and is now about 25 and still with me.

ETA when selling my daughter’s pony years ago a vet said to me that he’d probably never pass a horse for his client as she would be quick to sue if anything went wrong with the pony.
 
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dottylottie said:
not an issue with the sellers, but i had a vet from a very well respected practice tell me over the phone that she had passed, end of basically, only for the paperwork to arrive and instead of circling will/will not (pose a suitable amount of risk) he had written “might”.

reason was he didn’t see her canter under saddle - she’d not long been backed, not properly ridden away, fine on the lunge and loose just not quite there ridden yet.

was not best pleased when she went lame a couple of months later from being kicked and the insurance tried to get out of paying it!
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I had this slightly when I bought my mare. Vet said on the phone he wouldn't pass her, as there was a few things he found - heart murmur (my own vets has never heard one in all the months he's been seeing her), uneven muscling over hips, and failed hind flexions. But I told him I wanted a happy hacker for a quiet life, and she was 16, so I was expecting to get something on the vetting - it was whether it was concerning. He said to me that he expected her to probably develop some arthritis or something over time if not already there mildly due to age and flexions, but that tbh she might suit me really well if I'm happy to manage an older horse.

In the end, she had a keratoma in a front hoof that emerged a few months after I got her, but when x-rayed got a totally clean bill of health in her legs and is now recovered and sound as a pound, so the vet was right that there was something not quite right, but also he wasn't wrong that she might be ideal for what I wanted. And I do understand him not wanting to pass her.
Barklands said:
It happens with a well known dodgy dealer in the north and a vet the dealer "recommends" - it definitely happens. Equally beware when they slip in "oh x practice is my vets so you won't be able to use them" - their vets are usually the most stringent, reputable in the area who will undoubtably fail the dealer's broken down horses
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Which area in the north? I'm aware of one that this wouldn't surprise me for.
 
Stenners said:
Yes i Had a horse vetted early last year which I believe was biased as unfortunately i had the vet they recommended as turns out it was lame in some of the videos and another vet believed it would have been lame at the vetting
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Did you have the bloods tested for anti-inflammatories?
 
Tiddlypom said:
Birker, you were very unlucky with Lari. The Cheshire vet you used, although I have never used him, has a decent rep and is not known to be dodgy. I’d have PM’d you at the time if I’d have known of anything fishy.

It does seem highly likely that Lari was buted to the hilt both when you tried him and when he was vetted. Did you get the bloods run?
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I’d imagine he was more likely to have been strategically injected! Less risk to the seller as bloods will come back clear after a short while.
 
gallopinghooves said:
Gosh that’s not good, sorry you had to go through that!

So they give a result over phone and then you also need to wait for paperwork through the post? Sorry I haven’t been through this before! X
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yes, he phoned me to tell me the results and then the paperwork came in the post, just saying wether they’d done flexion tests and lunged on hard/soft surface etc.
he said on the phone “she was an odd one but she passed” and said he didn’t think there was anything underlying, but on the paperwork said the lack of canter may be caused by underlying musculoskeletal issue!

in almost 2 years the vet, physio, saddle fitter, etc have all been very happy with her back etc, the first time she had the physio she actually looked her over etc and then asked why i’d had her out in terms of any concerns etc as there was nothing out of the ordinary at all🤣
 
gallopinghooves said:
Oh my goodness that’s terrible. Was there no passport? Agh, sorry you went through that.

Side note, I love Criollos! You don’t see many in the UK!
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Passported straight off the boat as he arrived in Italy from Uraguy in 2007. If you like criollos, have a look at The Criollo appreciation thread. :)

Criollo appreciation thread

I am a criollo addict.... I thought it might be a nice idea to post a gratuitous criollo thread, just for the hell. There aren’t very many of these amazing horses around, but I know a fair few owners are on here, so let’s go. I’ll start. Pics in next post (hopefully!!) for IT incompetence...
forums.horseandhound.co.uk forums.horseandhound.co.uk
 
dorsetladette said:
Can you be on site for the vetting? I think it always helps to be there when the vetting takes place. You can have discussions with the vet as they work through the process. They can show you what they see which gives you a much better understanding of the comments on the paperwork.
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No unfortunately not. The horse is 4 hours away from me😭. I wish I could be because I imagine it’s incredibly helpful.
 
gallopinghooves said:
Yes. The only reason I’m asking is because the vet has ties to the dealer and I know you should try and get an independent vet but it’s a very small area and there aren’t any vets she hasn’t dealt with over the years. I just can’t imagine a vet ‘lying’ to please the dealer … why waste years of training and risk their reputation to keep one client happy. So am interested if anyone actually has negative stories
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A well known dodgy dealer in essex had a pet vet, and I know one horse personally that absolutely had a dodgy vetting. I've heard tales of lots more, so they are out there.
 
I'm Dun said:
A well known dodgy dealer in essex had a pet vet, and I know one horse personally that absolutely had a dodgy vetting. I've heard tales of lots more, so they are out there.
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A dodgy dealer in Essex wouldn’t let our RDA group use their choice of own vet on the vetting. They lost their deposit because they didn’t want to use the dealer’s vet. 😡
 
gallopinghooves said:
No unfortunately not. The horse is 4 hours away from me😭. I wish I could be because I imagine it’s incredibly helpful.
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In the grand scheme of horse heart and wallet ache - I would take a day off work and do the 8 hour round trip, even if you go the night before £80 in a travel lodge is a drop in the ocean !
 
Polos Mum said:
In the grand scheme of horse heart and wallet ache - I would take a day off work and do the 8 hour round trip, even if you go the night before £80 in a travel lodge is a drop in the ocean !
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Agree with this. Makes such a difference being able to talk through things with the vet.

You might decide to stop the vetting part way through and save money there also.

Vettings are not black and white.
 
Many many years ago someone I knew bought a pony from a well known showing yard, vetted by one of their vets from a locally very well known vet practice, think the queens vet practice at the time. Vet claimed to have never seen this particular pony and it passed its vetting, going lame a short while later which turned out to be a long term issue. Long story short turned out vets signature was on the pony’s vaccination book, vet practice eventually settled out of court..
 
Birker2020 said:
I can never prove it but the vet I used for the horse I bought from passed him and I had my two seperate vets from two seperate practices state that he should never have passed his vetting once he was diagnosed with all his issues. The inference being that it would have been possible to tell the horse was not right from lack of muscle/top line and watching him move.

I will be convinced to my dying day that the seller knew of the horses considerable problems and persuaded the vet to pass him with monetary gain. Sadly I was not at the vetting. I didn't use my own vets as the horse was too far away.

I don't understand why the horse was visibly lame the first time I rode him at home when he'd flew a vetting only ten days prior and the action he presented that day I rode him at home stayed the same going foward, I.e lame. He was eventually diagnosed with KS, hock, coffin and neck arthritis, had chronic sacro illiac issues and possibly PSD.

And for me to ride him as much as I did the day I viewed him without any displays of pain makes me wonder if he was heavily buted too.
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Can you pm me who you used please? I've just put two and two together and if you used who I think you did, I've had an awful experience with them.
 
gallopinghooves said:
Yes. The only reason I’m asking is because the vet has ties to the dealer and I know you should try and get an independent vet but it’s a very small area and there aren’t any vets she hasn’t dealt with over the years. I just can’t imagine a vet ‘lying’ to please the dealer … why waste years of training and risk their reputation to keep one client happy. So am interested if anyone actually has negative stories
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The horse I sent back to the very dodgy Scottish dealer was put straight into Goresbridge sales and bought in by an agent for a well known dealer near Gatwick. This horse was vetted by a lets say, less than straight vet for a lady in her 50's. The poor horse went on to throw his new owner off badly injuring her and galloping home on a 60 MPH road. He had a badly injured back from a rotational fall and was full of NSAID's when I had the blood run than was taken when I had him vetted in Scotland.
 
nutjob said:
I know people who have had horses pass vettings which really shouldn't have. One did get their money back from the seller, I believe after starting legal action and with a report from their own vet, the other didn't as it was unlikely the dealer would have ever come up with the money, they finished up with a totally unrideable horse and £1,000's in vet bills.

I also bought one age 2 which passed a 2 stage but by age 4 was diagnosed as a wobbler, I didn't have xrays of the neck done. I'm confident the vet did not overlook anything as the horse seemed normal to me for 2 years until I started riding him. I think it's far more common that the vet would just miss something or perhaps the horse has had joint injections which can cover an underlying problem especially if you don't have xrays taken. Another horse I was interested in passed the 5 stage but had kissing spines on xray with active bone remodelling so this would had passed without the back xrays. It was bucking during the ridden part which it didn't do when I went for the viewing so I was a bit concerned about what was going on.

If the horse has been treated by the vet practice, the vetting vet should disclose this and any relevant issues. I'd be more concerned about the dealer than the vet, are you on any of the dodgy dealer fb pages so you can check them out before proceeding.
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Definitely agree with checking them out on the DD pages. You can always ask the Admin to put up a post for you.
 
Birker2020 said:
I can never prove it but the vet I used for the horse I bought from passed him and I had my two seperate vets from two seperate practices state that he should never have passed his vetting once he was diagnosed with all his issues. The inference being that it would have been possible to tell the horse was not right from lack of muscle/top line and watching him move.

I will be convinced to my dying day that the seller knew of the horses considerable problems and persuaded the vet to pass him with monetary gain. Sadly I was not at the vetting. I didn't use my own vets as the horse was too far away.

I don't understand why the horse was visibly lame the first time I rode him at home when he'd flew a vetting only ten days prior and the action he presented that day I rode him at home stayed the same going foward, I.e lame. He was eventually diagnosed with KS, hock, coffin and neck arthritis, had chronic sacro illiac issues and possibly PSD.

And for me to ride him as much as I did the day I viewed him without any displays of pain makes me wonder if he was heavily buted too.
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No doubt drugged up to the eye balls poor horse, like the one I bought.
 
onemoretime said:
The horse I sent back to the very dodgy Scottish dealer was put straight into Goresbridge sales and bought in by an agent for a well known dealer near Gatwick. This horse was vetted by a lets say, less than straight vet for a lady in her 50's. The poor horse went on to throw his new owner off badly injuring her and galloping home on a 60 MPH road. He had a badly injured back from a rotational fall and was full of NSAID's when I had the blood run than was taken when I had him vetted in Scotland.
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That dealer was a forum member, wasn't she?
 
Widgeon said:
This has been said before but I think the insurance industry has a lot to answer for. If you pay more than about £5K for a horse you can't insure without a vetting. But it's not possible for a vet to give a full and considered opinion on anything because you'll end up with the entire horse covered in insurance exclusions. If I was a vet I don't think I would want to do vettings! The whole system is unfit for purpose but IMO it's not the vets who are to blame.
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It would help if there was a data base whereby you could enter the passport number and all the details including veterinary of the horse came up, but that is not going to happen sadly.
 
onemoretime said:
It would help if there was a data base whereby you could enter the passport number and all the details including veterinary of the horse came up, but that is not going to happen sadly.
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All the dodgy people would just chuck the passports away. Like they used to before ex racers were fashionable.

You'd buy an ex racer, chuck the passport away and sell it as TB x - ROR classes fixed all that as now having a racing history adds to the value.
 
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