Dodgy working conditions on a professional yard

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Avocadosalad

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I am new to the forum, so I hope you can help me. My daughter has been working on a professional yard. I am extremely upset that she has been, in my opinion, horribly underpaid. I am not vastly experienced in the equestrian world and am considering trying to investigate this through ACAS. Has anyone on here any experience they could share with me? I would be most grateful. Thank you.
 
Avocadosalad said:
I am new to the forum, so I hope you can help me. My daughter has been working on a professional yard. I am extremely upset that she has been, in my opinion, horribly underpaid. I am not vastly experienced in the equestrian world and am considering trying to investigate this through ACAS. Has anyone on here any experience they could share with me? I would be most grateful. Thank you.
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unfortunately that seems to be the way with this industry! when i was a 'working pupil' i got paid £50pw +room and livery for horse. basically i was a low wage groom didn't get much out of the experience for the work i put in, i'd be left on my own with a yard of 20 odd horses, we'd work 14hours a day and i worked 14days on 2 off. eventually gave up and after another stint as Yard Manager gave up and got a proper job much to my mums delight!
 
measles said:
Let us know her hours and package and I am sure people will be happy to give their opinion.
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Thank you. Happy to give details : Lessons were given when convenient, three a week max, but nothing agreed. No contract, no own horse. Hours 7.30 til 5. Then late stables too, in sole charge sometimes, or at best with one other member of staff. 9-10 hour day. No weekends off. Accomodation provided. 6 day week. 74p per hour.
I may not have equestrian experience, but I know this illegal. I am mainly wondering if anyone has ACAS experience? Did it help? Many thanks.
 
Depends on whether is a full employee or has been taken on as an apprentice, in which case will seem like they are being paid peanuts. In reality they are as rarely do apprentices have hours curbed.

The NMW for apprentices is £2.68 however I have a feeling that if board and lodging and any livery is offered with the job then a proportion of the wage can be taken (the board and lodgings is capped I believe).

You might be better trying the CAB first before ACAS. And also bear in mind that as the rules have changed regarding tribunals, you might not get a financial result, you might just be able to facilitate a slap on the employers wrists.
 
Avocadosalad said:
Thank you. Happy to give details : Lessons were given when convenient, three a week max, but nothing agreed. No contract, no own horse. Hours 7.30 til 5. Then late stables too, in sole charge sometimes, or at best with one other member of staff. 9-10 hour day. No weekends off. Accomodation provided. 6 day week. 74p per hour.
I may not have equestrian experience, but I know this illegal. I am mainly wondering if anyone has ACAS experience? Did it help? Many thanks.
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Nothing illegal about 6 day weeks, 9-10hr days or having to work weekends. Legally they are supposed to provide a statement of employment or a contract within a certain time (13 weeks I think).

To be honest, she would be better off chalking it to experience and going elsewhere.
 
Thank you, very much. I will contact CAB. No, she wasn't an apprentice. She had no livery, but she did have accommodation provided. Many thanks for your help.
 
Thank you. I am happy there is nothing illegal with her hours per se. She is not afraid of hard work, I assure you. I cannot express enough that this is coming from me, not her. My concern is that she is paid 74p per hour for such hard work.
Disclaimer : HARD WORK NEVER HURT ANYONE!
 
Was this a working pupil position? If so, if she's unhappy she either needs to move on or ask for more money/ lessons. But legally I don't think there's anything that could be done either for a WP position. They are more of an internship than a job IMO...
 
I have a 17 yr old apprentice. She starts at half eight and finishes at six. She has a 15 min break in the morning and an hours lunch break. She is on the nmw for her age which doesn't add up to much however I pick her up and take her home from work daily, she alos has a horse at my yard for which she pays 10 per week which includes hay and bedding, I also let her rug up, turn out , muck out , catch, groom him during the working day and I give her two hours off in the afternoon to ride him. If we go to a show then she brings him along with no charge for transport so I think she gets a good deal! I have also just paid for her first BHS exam.
 
Just find a better place, employer won't want to know ................
She could go a racing school, and get a job in racing, it offers a career path for the ambitious and plenty of riding for a groom. Very well paid in my experience, and great fun!
 
I guess you'd really have to thrash out the figures with her.

6days x 10 hours, 60 hours @ 0.74 = £44.4 per week

If apprentice then could be paid £2.68x 60 = £160.8.

So they are deducting £116.4 per week for accommodation and lessons.


£44.4 is an awfully low amount to walk a way with each week, however I guess these "jobs" are more like an experience.Maybe best if she finds a different one.
 
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I feel for your daughter. I took a position as an apprentice a while ago, left and got myself a paid non-horsey job to fund my riding which turned out to be a much better alternative for me. What is her motivation for staying? There are good jobs out there, as Charlie76 says, but unfortunately a lot of apprentices in the equine industry are running at a loss imo.
 
alainax said:
So they are deducting £116.4 per week for accommodation and lessons.

.
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JanetGeorge said:
If they're doing that, they are breaking the law! An Apprentice is paid less because they SHOULD be getting training, during working hours, without paying for it! The max offset that can be counted as part of the wage for accommodation is £34.37
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Well there is the answer :)
 
Thank you all. She is NOT an apprentice, there is no agreement in place.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Does anyone have experience with ACAS... good or bad in the equestrian industry?
 
charlie76 said:
I have a 17 yr old apprentice. She starts at half eight and finishes at six. She has a 15 min break in the morning and an hours lunch break. She is on the nmw for her age which doesn't add up to much however I pick her up and take her home from work daily, she alos has a horse at my yard for which she pays 10 per week which includes hay and bedding, I also let her rug up, turn out , muck out , catch, groom him during the working day and I give her two hours off in the afternoon to ride him. If we go to a show then she brings him along with no charge for transport so I think she gets a good deal! I have also just paid for her first BHS exam.
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She does get a very goo deal. It is good to hear that some yards are so well run. Thank you for your reply.
 
DonkeyClub said:
Surely she agreed wages and terms BEFORE she started the job? Has she anything in writing? What wage package did she agree to exactly?
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She agreed to a very low wage! She is young, and this is her first job. This is one of her equestrian heros. But I have found out that you cannot waive your legal rights. Doesn't matter - you could work for the Queen, and you still have rights to minimum wage rates.
 
If she is getting 3 lessons a week at say , £40 or £50 a lesson ( which is a cheap rate for a pro rider) then that's probably why they think they can pay her so little.
But it's definately not legal in any way. :-(
 
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