Does a Vet need permission to sedate

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Georgie2603

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Hello

Does anybody know if your vet has to have your express permission to sedate your horse please to provide treatment?

Has anybody had this experience happen to them and if so, what (if any) action did you take?
 
Georgie2603 said:
Hello

Does anybody know if your vet has to have your express permission to sedate your horse please to provide treatment?

Has anybody had this experience happen to them and if so, what (if any) action did you take?
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My vet has my permission to sedate any horse that needs it for treatment! He knows that - but as I'm almost always there, it's often me who suggests it (because I know which ones are likely to need it!)

Presumably SOMEONE was there with the horse. Did vet attempt to treat it before deciding it needed sedation? What was the treatment?

If a vet thinks sedation is necessary to carry out treatment safely - and the owner refuses permission - he would be entitled to walk away (it's his neck on the line.) And if the horse injured itself because it threw a paddy due to NOT being sedated for the treatment, then he COULD be found liable for the horse's injury.

If any doubt, I would prefer a horse to be sedated for treatment - I value my vet!
 
My vets normally advise if dee needs sedating and explain why. If it were an emergency i woud expect them to do it as a matter of course.


ETA agree with JG - my vets know i am happy to have dee sedated if they deem it necessary, they wouldnt (nor would any vet) sedate a horse on a whim and its done so a proceedure can be performed, making it safe for all handlers and less stressful for the horse
 
A vet really needs permission to do anything to your horse
Unless it was an emergency situation and vet was doing the best thing for the horse.

Sedative can potentially be dangerous.
 
Vets should also now be checking your passport has been signed. Due to the recent horse meat scandal. This gives them permission to use certain medications
 
Interesting topic as I have absolutely no idea whether legally a vet must have express permission to sedate a horse to carry out treatment. I suppose it would depend on the circumstances and where this was done. If the horse was at the vet clinic then I expect they would take any precautions necessary without having to inform the owner of every step? My vets all know that if they ever felt it necessary to sedate one of mine, then they may do so. I certainly wouldn't want a vet injured by one of my horses and if they feel they might be then that's no problem to me if they prefer to sedate.
 
Thanks for your replies.

I wasn't there but I had expressed a wish to be. However, vet failed to ring me to tell me he was at the yard. As it is a Riding School, he sought assistance from one of the staff and apparently my horse started misbehaving before vet even got near him!

Vet was there to do routine vac and have a LOOK at his teeth. I'd discussed a possible routine hand rasp at approximately £30. However, vet sedated him before any treatment began, gave his flu and tetanus vacc and performed a motorised rasp on his teeth and sent me a bill for nearly three times the amount I was expecting to pay!

All I had wanted was a phone call so I could meet the vet on sight and my pony may have been more settled with me around. Alternatively, I feel they should have at least rang and said your horse is misbehaving, can I sedate him? At which time, I would have gone to the yard to assess the situation and decided from there.

He has never had to be sedated before for any veterinary treatment or dentistry.
 
If you definitely said you wanted to be present id be very annoyed tbh!
Not the sedation side of it so much even but the fact they didn't do as you asked.
1. Phone you so you could be there
2. check the teeth
 
You should have been there, none of this blaming the vet for not ringing to say he was there - you call him out, you either be there ready for him, or have someone there at the yard who knows what you want. His job is not to be your secretary, his job is to administer medical treatment - he should have to chase owners up...

The vet needs to be fit and healthy to do his job, if his safety could have been compromised imo he had every right to protect himself.
 
RealityCheck said:
You should have been there, none of this blaming the vet for not ringing to say he was there - you call him out, you either be there ready for him, or have someone there at the yard who knows what you want. His job is not to be your secretary, his job is to administer medical treatment - he should have to chase owners up...

The vet needs to be fit and healthy to do his job, if his safety could have been compromised imo he had every right to protect himself.
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I would expect a call from my vets (& they do call) to inform me they are on the way, i would be rather miffed if they turned up unannounced.
 
I agree. Really you should have been there with the vet and then you could have made the decisions yourself. I don't even know vets who still do manual rasps tbh, none of mine do, so if I was unable to be there for a vet callout (that NEVER happens btw, I'm always there but for arguments sake let's me say what I'd do if I wasn't) then I would expect my vet to take all precautions he felt necessary and to do any job which he felt needed doing. If he found the teeth to be in a worse condition than first thought (when you were given the quote over the telephone) then absolutely I'd expect him to do the job that needed doing ie using the dremel instead of a manual rasp. The sedation part wouldn't bother me in the slightest and of course no vet would use the dremel without sedation so I would totally expect this to be reflected in the bill.

When you complained to the vet practice after the vet came and treated your horse, before you received the bill, what did they say?
 
navaho said:
I would expect a call from my vets (& they do call) to inform me they are on the way, i would be rather miffed if they turned up unannounced.
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It didn't sound like an unannounced visit. Rather a pre-booked one for which the OP wasn't in attendance for.
 
RealityCheck said:
You should have been there, none of this blaming the vet for not ringing to say he was there - you call him out, you either be there ready for him, or have someone there at the yard who knows what you want. His job is not to be your secretary, his job is to administer medical treatment - he should have to chase owners up...

The vet needs to be fit and healthy to do his job, if his safety could have been compromised imo he had every right to protect himself.
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While I agree in principle it is not the vets job to chase the owner, it depends on the arrangement made when the appointment was booked, my vets will often give an approximate time then the office will call to say they are on the way giving time to an owner who is not at the yard to get there in time to meet the vet.
I would be cross if that is what happened here, the person co-opted to hold the horse may not be competent and it appears they probably were not in this case.
 
RealityCheck said:
You should have been there, none of this blaming the vet for not ringing to say he was there - you call him out, you either be there ready for him, or have someone there at the yard who knows what you want. .
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If they were at the yard anyway and seeing another horse and decided to combine visits I would expect to be informed.

I would have expected the vet or the practice to say when they were coming. If they were turning up early I would have expected to be called. Ours are actually brilliant at letting you know if they are running late or early.

I wonder if in this case it is similar to a yard I was at where people who ran it were on good terms with the vets and on a couple of occasions asked for a horse to be treated without the owners permission and in at least one case where the owner used a different practice. None of these cases was an emergency where of course different rules apply.

The boundaries were dangerously blurred on both sides, both staff asking vets to look at horses without authorisation and the vets not even checking if the horse is registered with the practice.

Some of the blame is possibly with the staff member if they hadn't had instruction from you. They should have called you or asked the vet to call you before assisting.
 
amymay said:
It didn't sound like an unannounced visit. Rather a pre-booked one for which the OP wasn't in attendance for.
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& thats the sort of visit i was referring to, i had the vets out to my mare several times just after Christmas, although i knew they were coming on the day they still called before arriving to let me know they were on the way. I wouldnt expect anything else, like everyone else we do have lives to lead & things to do. Its only common courtesy to call before coming, luckily OP had someone there to deal with her horse (rightly or wrongly dealt with), however not all of us have that luxury.
 
Is it usual for vet practices to phone people to tell them the vet has just left or is on his way in the UK? When I make vet appointments I make them for a certain time and I'm always here for that time, as is the vet usually. If he got held up at an emergency then he'll call me to let me know he's running behind of schedule but he certainly doesn't call me as a matter of course; no point as I know at the time of booking when he'll be with me. Do farriers do the same thing? Again, when I book the farrier he gives me the day and time he'll be here and I make sure I'm here, as does he.
 
Spring Feather said:
Is it usual for vet practices to phone people to tell them the vet has just left or is on his way in the UK?
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Yes, I've done it - but really only when there was absolutely no idea when the vet might be coming. Usually I'd simply book a morning or afternoon appointment and simply wait at the yard for them to arrive.
 
Yes, its fairly standard for the vet or practice to call when the vet is on his way . Although you may have a window of time when he's expected, they can never guarantee how long each visit, plus emergencies, will take.


Regarding the OP, it sounds like a misunderstanding. The vet knew the staff were on hand to assist and you weren't there.

I don't think its reasonable to expect the vet to call, inform you that the horse needs sedating and wait there until you arrive.

Vets do seem keener to sedate for routine rasping than EDT's. Personally, I'd be mightily peed off if one of mine had teeth done with power tools instead of a manual rasp unless there was a specific reason, never mind the sedation.

Bottom line is, you should have been there. The vet and helper's safety is a priority.
 
We have a monthly yard visit (no call out charge) where u phone the practise before hand to book an appointment. The receptionist usually says pls phone at 9am for an approx time. It's nearly always about 11am so I don't bother ringing and make sure I'm at the yard at 10am. I wudnt expect the vet to call as its a big yard and they wud spend an hour just ringing people. The op days they r at a riding school so there will be quite a few horses. Cud a yard worker not have given u a call to say thd vet had arrived?
 
Georgie2603 said:
...performed a motorised rasp on his teeth and sent me a bill for nearly three times the amount I was expecting to pay!
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I'd not care if he had to be sedated, its unlikely to have done any damage.

However, if I'd spoken to the vet and discussed a manual rasp of the teeth, and a price, I'd be bloody annoyed to have it done with an electric rasp and have it come in at triple the price. I'd probably refuse to pay, to be honest.
 
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