Does anybody understand WOW headplates?

[Charlie31]

I recently tried my horse in a WOW saddle. He didn't seem to get on with it and I'm trying to work out what might have been wrong as I still think a WOW could be a viable option if we could get the set up right.

Obvious thoughts are that he didn't like the feel of the Flair or the panel set up wasn't right for him but I was also wondering about the headplate. He was in a UU and I guess I wondered if this was the wrong shape for him and made it uncomfortable.

I understand the principle that these headplates are for the horses with the really big withers. Mine is a connie and he does have solid withers with lots of muscle either side so I can understand why he might be a contender for a UU, but then there's part of me that thinks is this enough or does it have to be really truly solid beast? When he was walking along there was a part in walk stride where you could actually see in to where the fronts of the panels are, so a gap between the saddle and the horse if that makes sense. I'm pretty sure the headplate was the right width though so I wondered if maybe the UU was not offering the support further down. Or does it not really matter that much if the width of the headplate is right?

I know the obvious answer is just to try an ordinary U headplate and see how that works out but I was just musing really and wondered if anybody knew more about it and could explain it with some real life examples rather than just the general information given on the WOW website.

Any information greatly appreciated.

 

[Nugget La Poneh]

Did a fitter put him in a UU?

 

[ycbm]

What saddle cloth were you using?

many horses object to the feel of the overlap of the front and back air bags. I never use mine without either a wool lined numnah or a thin gel pad.

If you want to use a sheepskin, make it a very expensive one. Even those are sometimes not one piece, but I found to my cost that the cheaper ones are up to seventy scraps of skin stitched together

Some horses actually go better in a gullet plate that is 'technically' one size too wide. I have one in this configuration right now, and have had one before.

I also use a flat y bar and a plus one size plate for jumping saddle as I find them much more stable that way.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I'd speak to your saddle fitter about your concerns and see what they say. Did they see you ride in the saddle when they came out the first time?

 

[Wheels]

This is something that is a little trial and error - UU headplates are not necessarily for well muscles wide withers and V headplates are not necessarily for A framed withers.

It is the relationship and interaction between the panels and headplate style that is important - getting the lift required in front to come up enough from the top of the wither whilst keeping the seat balanced.

It might be better to go for a U headplate and tab panels for example or some other configuration.

Did your fitter try a couple of different options?

 

[galaxy]

What did your fitter think? How much air was in the panels? Some fitters over fill them. They are meant to be soft and squidgy

I only use a normal saddlecloth and it's fine.

 

[Charlie31]

A few things to think about there. Picking up on a couple of points:

It was an ordinary numnah that we tried it with so I had thought of trying with a wool one underneath as I'd heard about some horses not liking the feel of the bags. The airbags were set nice and soft as they should be but I'd imagine the squidgy flair could feel a bit strange too.

I'm not keen on the idea of fitting too wide as I've had problems from too wide saddles before. The horse doesn't object to ordinary saddles of the correct width so I don't think this was the problem.

We tried a couple of different panels but didn't try different headplates or tabs. There was certainly plenty of wither clearance but in a way I thought that the openness of the head caused by the UU plate made it look a bit ridiculous.

Anyway the fitter is up for trying different things so I'll mention it. It's all very confusing though. One the one hand all the different combinations makes me think it must be possible to get a decent fit but on the other hand I think it must make it really easy to get it completely wrong!

 

[Wheels]

Yes it's worth trying a different configuration, there shouldn't be a gap between the panel and the horse and either a different headplate and / or panel set up might help.

 

[Nugget La Poneh]

I'm surprised the fitter hasn't been able to think of a solution, as they fit them day in day out.

My panels aren't squishy, if they are, they need inflating. Mine are firm, and were redone about 2 weeks ago. If they are too soft, when the weight is in the saddle, the horse can feel all sorts of things that it shouldn't. WoW also say that ideally you don't have a wool half pad as this changes the fit of the saddle too much.

As for the panels, are the ones you have currently tabbed? Mine were and the recent fitting highlighted that they are not right for mine horse, so got the 'normal' ones on order. As for the openess at the pommel, I find they do look more so that a 'conventional' saddle.

 

[galaxy]

I'm surprised the fitter hasn't been able to think of a solution, as they fit them day in day out.

My panels aren't squishy, if they are, they need inflating. Mine are firm, and were redone about 2 weeks ago. If they are too soft, when the weight is in the saddle, the horse can feel all sorts of things that it shouldn't. WoW also say that ideally you don't have a wool half pad as this changes the fit of the saddle too much.

As for the panels, are the ones you have currently tabbed? Mine were and the recent fitting highlighted that they are not right for mine horse, so got the 'normal' ones on order. As for the openess at the pommel, I find they do look more so that a 'conventional' saddle.

The panels are meant to be squishy... as you can see in the photo on WOWs website

http://www.wowsaddles.com/unique-features/flair/

There obv has to be enough air in them to lift the saddle off the horse's back, but they should not be firm. It is also why they are adjustable, so you could potentially have more air in the front of the back depending on what your horse needs. When mine is refitted we often start with minimal air in them the fitter gradually adds more here and there until I get the right feel from my opinionated mare and balance in the saddle I want.

 

[Nugget La Poneh]

The panels are meant to be squishy... as you can see in the photo on WOWs website

http://www.wowsaddles.com/unique-features/flair/

There obv has to be enough air in them to lift the saddle off the horse's back, but they should not be firm. It is also why they are adjustable, so you could potentially have more air in the front of the back depending on what your horse needs. When mine is refitted we often start with minimal air in them the fitter gradually adds more here and there until I get the right feel from my opinionated mare and balance in the saddle I want.

It might be my opinion of squishy and firm - squishy for me is completely malleable, can push the panel in to the point of being able to feel the hard parts under the seat. Firm being slight give, and doesn't feel as if it's at full capacity.

 

[ycbm]

I'm surprised the fitter hasn't been able to think of a solution, as they fit them day in day out.

My panels aren't squishy, if they are, they need inflating. Mine are firm, and were redone about 2 weeks ago. If they are too soft, when the weight is in the saddle, the horse can feel all sorts of things that it shouldn't. WoW also say that ideally you don't have a wool half pad as this changes the fit of the saddle too much.

As for the panels, are the ones you have currently tabbed? Mine were and the recent fitting highlighted that they are not right for mine horse, so got the 'normal' ones on order. As for the openess at the pommel, I find they do look more so that a 'conventional' saddle.

In my opinion, if you can't feel the hard parts on the saddle if you push one finger into the panel, then there is too much air in it. The horse can't feel the hard parts, it's not using fingers. I've often bought second hand panels pumped up this high by supposedly qualified fitters.

To fit a WOW you start with the air at atmospheric pressure, and only if it needs more to make it fit do you put more in. Too much air makes them bounce and I've heard a few people say they've given them up because they are too bouncy.

Also is it WOW who say don't put a sheepskin or wool under it as it alters the fit too much, or is it your WOW fitter? Lots of saddle fitters say that about all kinds of saddles, and the answer of course is to fit the saddle WITH the wool, not to add it afterwards.

There are horses that hate the airbag overlap. I'm sure WOW the makers would rather see it fitted with a wool numnah or a gel pad than have another person post online that their horse hated WOW saddles.

I'm excited tonight, my custom made jumping WOW is arriving tomorrow! BIG knee blocks and very forward cut. Wheeeeee!

 

[Nugget La Poneh]

In my opinion, if you can't feel the hard parts on the saddle if you push one finger into the panel, then there is too much air in it. I've often bought second hand panels pumped up this high by supposedly qualified fitters.

Also is it WOW who say don't put a sheepskin or wool under it as it alters the fit too much, or is it your WOW fitter? Lots of saddle fitters say that about all kinds of saddles, and the answer of course is to fit the saddle WITH the wool, not to add it afterwards.

There are horses that hate the airbag overlap. I'm sure WOW the makers would rather see it fitted with a wool numnah or a gel pad than have another person post online that their horse hated WOW saddles.

I'm excited tonight, my custom made jumping WOW is arriving tomorrow! BIG knee blocks and very forward cut. Wheeeeee!

Previous fitter to who I'm using up here said WoW didn't endorse the use of thick wool pads under as it was seen as defeating the point (his words, not mine), but this was over 7 years ago and the design of half pads etc. has come on leaps and bounds.

As for the lady I use, she has been doing a lot of work with Richard Davison and his wow saddles so guessing so is more than okay to be fitting mine on my bog pony. She's also given me more confidence in how it fits now (well, will once with the new panels) that I did with the previous 2 fitters. He went a lot better, saddle has stopped slipping and can now use it with their saddle cloths whereas previously I couldn't without ending up the saddle shifting. He also got put into a U headplate 2 sizes smaller as it was set previously too wide, and with the tabbed panels meant it was completely cock-eyed.

But like you say, it's opinion - but I think it's more differing views on what the term squishy means

 

[galaxy]

In my opinion, if you can't feel the hard parts on the saddle if you push one finger into the panel, then there is too much air in it. The horse can't feel the hard parts, it's not using fingers. I've often bought second hand panels pumped up this high by supposedly qualified fitters.

To fit a WOW you start with the air at atmospheric pressure, and only if it needs more to make it fit do you put more in. Too much air makes them bounce and I've heard a few people say they've given them up because they are too bouncy.

!

Totally agree. If I stick a finger in my panels I can feel the foam inside, but if I use the flat of my hand I can't, therefore my horse certainly couldn't.

 

[ycbm]

Squishygate update

I've tested my panels, which I fit myself, this morning. They are the new ones with an airbag wrapper and different/more foam. I can't feel any hard bits no matter how hard I push.

New saddle arriving between 13.32 and 14.32, made me laugh!

 

[galaxy]

Squishygate update

I've tested my panels, which I fit myself, this morning. They are the new ones with an airbag wrapper and different/more foam. I can't feel any hard bits no matter how hard I push.

New saddle arriving between 13.32 and 14.32, made me laugh!

Mine is only 18 months and I can also only feel foam when I push into it

 

[fairyclare]

Squishygate update

I've tested my panels, which I fit myself, this morning. They are the new ones with an airbag wrapper and different/more foam. I can't feel any hard bits no matter how hard I push.

New saddle arriving between 13.32 and 14.32, made me laugh!

I have heard about some new panels - I want some!!
Did you order your new customer made WOW through Sophie?
How exciting!

 

[ycbm]

I have heard about some new panels - I want some!!
Did you order your new customer made WOW through Sophie?
How exciting!

No, I know Maggie, one of the founders, and since I fit my own I buy direct from her. It's geoooooorgeous!

Event seat size 2 with plastic tree and plastic stirrup bars, flat y bar, dwg panels size 1 with gusset and tab and a set of continental flaps extra forward cut to my own template. So new it still smells of the glue really strongly. Can't wait to try it on tomorrow, nobody came near to grab this afternoon, the rotten breasts. I'm not jumping much these days so I'm going to share it between two horses.

 

[LadySam]

I'm fascinated by these saddles. In general, how has everybody found them compared to a conventionally flocked saddle?

 

[Charlie31]

Picking up on the flat or curved y bar question, how does one decide which to go for? I was told that the vast majority of horses need a curved one but my horse is pretty flat backed and saddles do tend to lift at the back on him for one reason or another so I wonder if a y bar might be a better choice?
How did you learn to fit your own ycbm? It seems quite complicated but definitely something I'd like to understand more if I did go for a Wow.

 

[galaxy]

I'm fascinated by these saddles. In general, how has everybody found them compared to a conventionally flocked saddle?

I borrowed a friend's out of interest when her horse was out of work before I bought my own. My mare was working at prelim and struggled with canter transitions, running and hollowing. Her conventional saddle technically fitted. Within a week of being ridden in the WOW she had learnt how to do a good transition, something that we'd been trying to get for months.

 

[ycbm]

I'm fascinated by these saddles. In general, how has everybody found them compared to a conventionally flocked saddle?

It isn't the flocking that produces the greatest effects, and you can buy foam panels. The air allows minute adjustment, and prevents flocking bumps and evens the pressure across the back, so i love it.

But the biggest effect is from the carbon fibre 'joint' in the tree. The whole front arch of the tree swings as the horse's shoulders move, creating the biggest shoulder freedom you can get in a saddle.

It isn't uncommon for a horse to go up a gullet plate in size after just two weeks in a WOW, when it can move its shoulders freely.

 

[ycbm]

Picking up on the flat or curved y bar question, how does one decide which to go for? I was told that the vast majority of horses need a curved one but my horse is pretty flat backed and saddles do tend to lift at the back on him for one reason or another so I wonder if a y bar might be a better choice?
How did you learn to fit your own ycbm? It seems quite complicated but definitely something I'd like to understand more if I did go for a Wow.

I learnt by watching a good fitter fit my own horses three times and a friend's horses about the same number.

I'm not an expert and I couldn't fit a really difficult horse, but I've fitted now to at least twenty, and I've yet to find a horse that I can't make comfortable in a DWG or DDWG panel with a tab. I'm not a purist about gullet plate size. I will happily fit one that is 'too wide' if the horse tells me it's happy.

It's easy to see what gullet plate is right by putting it over the horse's back at the height it would be in the saddle. The rest is the same balancing front to back as any saddle. I would never have uneven air side to side unless a horse or rider had a permanent physical problem. If my horse or I aren't straight, I want to feel it.

Flat y bars are for very flat backs. If you try a curved y bar seat and you can't get it to fit without rocking or having the air bags too hard at one end or the other, then the horse probably needs a flat y bar.

I also use flat y bars and a gullet plate one size too big in jumping saddles, because I find it makes them much more stable, and stops them rising at the back as often happens over a jump on a curved y bar.

Lastly, I blow up each air bag separately, counting pumps, because I have seen uneven air distribution caused by condensation in the tubes. It's also a lot less faff than connecting up all that tubing !

I've got the catwalk models trapped outside now, and since it's a horrible day here, all that's going to happen this morning is a jump saddle fitting

 

[Wheels]

ycbm do you fit other people's horses? If you've fitted over 20 I assume you do?

 

[ycbm]

ycbm do you fit other people's horses? If you've fitted over 20 I assume you do?

Just mine and my friends. I'll willingly help anyone near me, but I don't do it as a job and I can't make any warranty as to the quality of my work!


Great news! New jump saddle appears to fit both with no adjustment. Which is interesting, because in a curved y bar my cob has a lot more air in front and one wider gullet plate than my paint.

 

[Charlie31]

I learnt by watching a good fitter fit my own horses three times and a friend's horses about the same number.

I'm not an expert and I couldn't fit a really difficult horse, but I've fitted now to at least twenty, and I've yet to find a horse that I can't make comfortable in a DWG or DDWG panel with a tab. I'm not a purist about gullet plate size. I will happily fit one that is 'too wide' if the horse tells me it's happy.

It's easy to see what gullet plate is right by putting it over the horse's back at the height it would be in the saddle. The rest is the same balancing front to back as any saddle. I would never have uneven air side to side unless a horse or rider had a permanent physical problem. If my horse or I aren't straight, I want to feel it.

Flat y bars are for very flat backs. If you try a curved y bar seat and you can't get it to fit without rocking or having the air bags too hard at one end or the other, then the horse probably needs a flat y bar.

I also use flat y bars and a gullet plate one size too big in jumping saddles, because I find it makes them much more stable, and stops them rising at the back as often happens over a jump on a curved y bar.

Lastly, I blow up each air bag separately, counting pumps, because I have seen uneven air distribution caused by condensation in the tubes. It's also a lot less faff than connecting up all that tubing !

I've got the catwalk models trapped outside now, and since it's a horrible day here, all that's going to happen this morning is a jump saddle fitting

Thanks for this. I've found it really helpful and it's given me some food for thought on things to discuss with the fitter. I can't see my horse needing DD type panels but he is one of those horses who looks quite different along his back when he's moving compared to when he's stood still so I wonder if he might look like he'd suit a curved bar when he's stood there but turn into a straight bar candidate when he's moving. Certainly he was lifting it at the back when we tried it despite trying different girthing options, so I think it's either try shorter panels to get them off the very active area of his back or try a flat bar and see if that helps. A few options for things to try anyway so long as the fitter doesn't get fed up of me and decide I'm more hassle than I'm worth!