Does anyone dislike pessoas?

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Farma

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Just wondered really - i had a conversation about them with someone whos opinion i really value who absolutely detests them and its the 1st anti pessoa argument ive ever heard - anyone else dislike them and why?
 
My horse doesn't like them! She bucks like stink with it on and has broken it a few times, so I never use it now. Used it only a few times and she does kind of settle but I don't think she likes the jabbing in the mouth action and the whole thing being wrapped around her -I think she gets a bit angry with it.



She goes well in a bungee (i.e from over the headpiece through the bit in each side and then goes through the legs and attaches to the bit under her front legs of the roller) and then I add an exercise bandage around her hindquarters and do it up on the roller.
This she goes well in and also she seems to go very well in an homemade version of the rope thing that Laura B uses on HorseHero.
 
My horse is fine with them but we took a long time before we graduated into the actual pessoa using a Roller, Excercise bandage around his rear end (which tightened up gradually) and an interesting Bailer twine to Lunge caverson then when used to that to the bit arrangement again loose then gradually tighter.

We then graduated to the rubber bungee and excercise bandge around the bum and finally the Pessoa.

I have some wonderful pictures of the Excercise bandage bailer twine stage but am far too ashamed to post them as he looks like an Appleby Fair escapee!

It was effective though!
 
Yes i do.

they allow the horse to sit behind the contact and i don't like the fact they get jabbed in the mouth by their back legs.

it is impossible to have a good contact with the pessoa because if it is short enough for any pressure on the mouth you get the hindlegs pulling at the contact.
 
the action doesn't work on my horse = and they'd not be my lunging kit of choice... in fact i'd not bother buying one ever again... and the one i do have has ben cut up and adapted lol!

but saying that i have seen some horses go well in them so would not question if someone used one if that makes sense?

mind you - i have bitten my tounge watching some folk lunge in them whilst they are happily saying how pessoas are the answer to everything when i didn't think the horse was going well...

i do think that people jumped on the 'pessoa' band wagon without really taking a good critical look at them for each individal horse... i worry when folk say they use them on all their horses as standard kit with the 'can do no wrong' blinkered attitude

ETA - i also worry that a lot of amateur/inexperienced/etc *trying not to upset anyone here* :o folk just use them for lunging as they are the kit of choice now - without properly know how to use them and without the knowledge to consider how the horse is actually going in them - they just whack it on and run with it
 
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millitiger said:
Yes i do.

they allow the horse to sit behind the contact and i don't like the fact they get jabbed in the mouth by their back legs.

it is impossible to have a good contact with the pessoa because if it is short enough for any pressure on the mouth you get the hindlegs pulling at the contact.
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This is exactly why my trainer detests them, they sock the horse in the mouth with every stride of the hindlegs, hardly a nice reward for softening and rounding.
 
See this is the thing that I do not get though, alot of well respected people have said they like it...

But where is the reward? When does the horse know it's in the correct shape so to speak?
When does the horse think 'ah.. This is the most comfortable place for me to be in'' when it's contantly being pulled by either bit ring by the hind legs no matter where it is?

This is what I have been taught release the moment the horse has answered your question, let it know it's done the correct thing.

See with this rope thing I use, my mare can pull her head up (its not on tight) but it would make it more uncomfortable so to speak but when she relaxes and drops down and works with a long low carriage she has taken that pressure away completely... As long as your horse can work in that frame and you stop for breaks there is not any tension.

Oh I don't know, sometimes you think you are getting somehwere with riding and then you realise infact you know nothing at all.

x
 
heidirusso said:
See this is the thing that I do not get though, alot of well respected people have said they like it...

But where is the reward? When does the horse know it's in the correct shape so to speak?
When does the horse think 'ah.. This is the most comfortable place for me to be in'' when it's contantly being pulled by either bit ring by the hind legs no matter where it is?



x
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My thoughts exactly - would never use one for this reason.
 
A little OT but it kinda fits

http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/gadgets.php

There are some strong opinions about gadgets on here that I found interesting (not necesarily gospel truth by any means but an interesting way to look at it).

She isn't overly keen on the pessoa, personally I haven't used one enough to comment really but I have never been a fan of more straps solving problems.

As to some of the other gadgets on there, tying a horses head to its tail literally? am I missing the point or is that asking for a wreak?
 
Katikins said:
Agree with others on here. How is it fair to be socking the horse in the teeth on every stride!! Stupid piece of kit and really can't understand why people use them.
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Sorry but my horse never socks himself in the jaw with this kit and neither do any of the others who are at my traniners yard but then as I said in my previous post he does spend months and I mean months getting all the horses used to pressure release using the excercise bandage over the back end and loose bungee before even entertaining the Pessoa.

By this time the horses get if my head is put here and I keep it here then it is comfortable. But then we never really rack the Pessoa in I use it on a loose rein length as I want my horse to carry his head naturally not forced down.

I have seen at previous yards peolpe racking the thing up so poor horse is so overbent it looks horrendous so can understand the argument.

The Pessoa is not suitalbe euqipment for a novice so can understand your arguments but used properly and with care it is a very worthwhile piece of kit.
 
I did have one at my previous yard, but somebody stole it from me - so presumably at least one other person liked it too.

I only ever used it on the 'long and low' setting and for that it was perfect, I would be a bit unhappy about using it on any other setting.
 
I recently bought my horse and his previous owners have trained him in a pessoa for a couple of years (he was only 5 when I had him). He looks "pretty" in it to a novice eye but I have spent the past 3months of ridden work trying to pull him off the forehand!
It may be that he is just too big for his pessoa (he is 17.3h, MW hunter type) but it pulls him behind the vertical even on its lowest setting and he just looks like he is ploughing!
Having said that I have seen another horse work really nicely and lightly in one.

Probably horses for courses but very damaging in the wrong hands!
 
I have found that people who say the pessoa jabs the horse in the mouth have the strap around the bum done up too low down, so that the movement of the hind legs pulls it back on each stride. The strap needs to be much higher up, then the movement is very limited and doesn't pull on the mouth. That's what I've found with the JW version, anyhow.

But no, it's not the best aid for developing a consitent contact. I have found, though, that it works wonders on topline development, and does encourage the horse to step under.
 
the watcher said:
I only ever used it on the 'long and low' setting and for that it was perfect, I would be a bit unhappy about using it on any other setting.
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Agree with his....

would have just put ditto but apparantly that means the message is too short....stoopid new board
 
Nope not a fan, I posted about this in the past, reasons why I didnt like it etc but my back lady suggested using it for Mac (was the only reason I gave it whirl) so it would benefit and strengthen his backend.

I more or less got told on here that I had not fitted it properly just because I didn't like using it.

I just think something simple and cheaper (should you need to use something) like a chambon worked better for my individual horse.
 
I'd prefer to lunge in a crupper myself (back to the dark ages again!) They seem to hold themselves much better and swing through really using themselves and because it is a fixed item, they don't get penalised or upset by them. You can usually tell when a young horse has been broken with one or not but I can't explain it scientifically, they just carry themselves better and I do believe it is a kinder 'aid' than a Pessoa.
 
I have only ever used one once and that was on a horse that I briefly shared a few years ago - was asked to use it by the owner and it was already set up how they wanted it - it did seem to get the hindlegs working and allowed him to stretch but I think it encouraged him onto the forehand.

From seeing others use it I think it is very easy to put it on and assume that it will work correctly and people may rely on that and not adjust it properly or lunge correctly and assume the equipment will do the job for them.

when I have seen other use them I have seen the jabbing in the mouth that people describe so I think it really depends on the operator and experience and the individual horse.

My horse is pretty active behind on the lunge and whne I first got him spent months getting him off his forehand ( think he may have been lunged in pessoa previously) so would not want to risk going back to that!

Personally when I lunge I use nothing or just use loose side reins but now would like to encourage my horse to stretch more and be more consistent and so will be trying a chambon as I can see the mechanics behind it and think it would help my horse and I can use it for in hand work too such as developing the rein back.
 
Ballyboo said:
I have found that people who say the pessoa jabs the horse in the mouth have the strap around the bum done up too low down, so that the movement of the hind legs pulls it back on each stride. The strap needs to be much higher up, then the movement is very limited and doesn't pull on the mouth. That's what I've found with the JW version, anyhow.

But no, it's not the best aid for developing a consitent contact. I have found, though, that it works wonders on topline development, and does encourage the horse to step under.
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I totally agree with this. I have found it invaluable for horses that try to evade the contact by sticking their head up and rushing but I often use it in conjunction with sidereins to give a more consistent contact for those that need it. All horses have their preferences I guess and its just a case of finding what works for each.

I do think though that there is a temptation for many people to do the thing up too tight and when I did this once or twice (by mistake when swapping from one horse to another) I have found it has a really negative effect.
 
Not used a pessoa but I do use an Equi Ami on my mare which I'm happy to use for the reasons mentioned on their website. This undoubtedly encourages my horse to work in a more rounded way, certainly doesn't upset her (or me) and I feel it's a nice way to get her to really stretch and use herself in between ridden sessions, particularly if she's had a harder ridden day the day before.
Wonder if anyone else uses one?
 
if your horse is not being jabbed in the mouth then it is sitting behind the contact (or working nicely with a light contact to an inexperienced eye).

nothing to do with how high or low the breach strap is- there is still movement in it if the horse is moving, it is just less obvious when it is higher.

OR could someone please explain to me how any horse can have a good contact with a pulley system attached to it's ar$e?
preferably with photos :)
 
It depends, who is using them and on witch horse, some horses hate them! and some people fasten them so that even when the horse lowers its head and is working from behind it is still getting jabbed in the mouth. If you set it on the lowest setting and really loosely then when the horse stretches his top-line the ropes should just be hanging loosely then, it does take longer for the horse to get the general idea but its a lot better then constant pulling! iv seen lots of supposedly knowledgeable people with there horses trotting round with the head pulled in and the ropes still tight or the horse constantly bucking in canter and they think that's its fine... really if you use it properly and listen to your horse if its tells you it is uncomfortable then its fine but not many people do TBH.
 
I was going to buy one but researched and decided against it for the reasons in this post :)

However I have used an elastic bandage round Phil's quarters and it just seems to make himself more aware of what his hind legs are doing.
 
And as for them being behind the contact, i agree, they cannot take a contact forward when the bum part will be pulling them in the mouth.
 
millitiger said:
if your horse is not being jabbed in the mouth then it is sitting behind the contact (or working nicely with a light contact to an inexperienced eye).

nothing to do with how high or low the breach strap is- there is still movement in it if the horse is moving, it is just less obvious when it is higher.

OR could someone please explain to me how any horse can have a good contact with a pulley system attached to it's ar$e?
preferably with photos :)
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Exactly!

Chambon does the job so much better, providing you are able to drive the horse from behind:)
 
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