does anyone have any negative comments against going bitless

kiteman0

kiteman0

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im thinking about changing my horse to bitless:eek:
ive been looking at the dr cook bridles and also the hackamoor.
theres plenty of comments about how good it is but are there negatives??
ive got a horse that when i ride with a slack rein he is fine, but if i have to much contact he constantly is grabbing at the bit, mouth open and in trot and canter dropping his head to the floor.
i schooled him in a head collar and he was excellant and in a fast canter i was able to turn him and then pull him up.
he turned in a slow canter on a sixpence with just his head collar and felt much more happier.
any comments welcome.;)
 
kiteman0 said:
does anyone have any negative comments against going bitless
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Ooooo its too late in the evening to get my head around the double nagative! :confused:


Anywhooo, I rode my mare in a german hackamore, she was the happied she'd ever been in her riding career. It suits some horses, and doesnt others. Only one way to find out. :)
 
that is true in the wrong hands a bit can be dangerouse or cause alot of pain to the horse.
when i rode him in his headcollar i crossed the lead ropes underneath his jaws like a drcook bridle and i was happy with the way he went.
ive read that hackamoores can be very severe if used heavy handed.
 
Am not the best person to reply as I never school, just hack, do pleasure rides and so on; but I am a great fan of hackamores and think you should try riding in one and see how your horse likes it. It is ideal for any horse that doesn't like its head 'messed with', and if you go into it you'll see that a lot of Long Distance and Endurance people ride bitless in one form or another.

I had a very unhappy mare, bought with LDR in mind, who flung her head about and fretted. On the advice of a good friend who was a very successful LDR rider, and under her instruction, I started to use a hackamore. It was a learning curve for both horse and me but it worked brilliantly. I am soon going to start riding my current horse in one as well.

It's very important that they're fitted properly and you need to be shown how to do this, otherwise you negate their usefulness, and Ithink you need lighter hands than with a bitted bridle, though that's just my opinion.

Perhaps you could borrow one for a few weeks to see how your horse, and you, get on with it.
 
I used one one my mare before she retired. She went well in it. But we did have a horse at the trekking yard I kept her at years ago. The riders cut the horses mouth with the bit. So the used an english hackmore with rubbed his nose raw, poor thing. Carried on using him as well.
 
kiteman0 said:
ive got a horse that when i ride with a slack rein he is fine, but if i have to much contact he constantly is grabbing at the bit, mouth open and in trot and canter dropping his head to the floor.
any comments welcome.;)
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My horse has been going like this but has had other problems going on, so not really addressed it as didn't want to treat/change everything at once.

Anyway, now all other bits and bobs are ok, vet checked her yesterday and was most perplexed at her way of going, especially as she was sound of limb.

She had her teeth done by the same vet in August (and has always had them done regularly). Anyway, she had a good feel around in her mouth and it appears she has lower jaw wolf teeth. The vet was disappointed with herself that she hadn't felt them before but in her defence, she has never seen it before, only been covered on the dental courses she has been on. They are apparently pretty rare. Having now felt them for myself, I can understand how painful it must be as the bit sits on them. Poor horse :(.

I am riding in a hackamore until she has her teeth x-rayed and removed.

Have you had had his teeth checked?
 
I wouldn't consider a Hackamore to be a bitless bridle. It's quite a severe alternative. THe Micklem is pretty good as you have 3 different types of bitless as well as a bitted option, but mostly we ride off a rope halter or scawbrig. The Light Rider seems good too, or the Nurtural. Not so keen on the Dr Cook as I find it doesn't release as well as it should. But as mentioned, they're all only as good as the rider's hands.
 
Just read Quirky's post - a vet that didn't know about wolf teeth? A good reason for getting a qualified EDT - I wouldn't let a vet near my horse's teeth!! That's appalling.
 
Its a good idea for your horse to steer correctly, ie off your leg and body weight then from the bridle. When going bitless and your horse doesn't steer properlly it could lead to problems.

As for hackamores, the ones with really long shanks are very severe so you need soft hands to ride in one.
 
THe only negatives I can think of are:
Might make the horse more difficult to sell if you ever wanted to - people just don't like bitless
Even you ever want to do dressage, affiliated or unaffiliated, you can't
A lot of riding clubs don't allow bitless for anything
 
intouch said:
Just read Quirky's post - a vet that didn't know about wolf teeth? A good reason for getting a qualified EDT - I wouldn't let a vet near my horse's teeth!! That's appalling.
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Umm no, read the post properly!!!

Wolf teeth in the upper jaw, most horses tend to have.

Lower jaw wolf teeth are extremely rare, as any Googled article will tell you.

As an aside, one of the (allegedly) best EDT's in the country saw her late last year and he didn't spot them either, anything to say about that??????
 
I tried a Dr Cook's bitless with my horse, she absolutely hated it and we spent the whole time with her hauling at the rein, snorting and head shaking. She doesn't like nose pressure much anyway, so definitely made her opinion known!

I have heard of some horses going better bitless though, like anything it is up to the individual at the end of the day.
 
I have tried a scawbrig which my horse gets on well with at home....but I wouldnt have enough brakes on an endurance ride unfortunately..if he wanted to go..he could in that. so I tried a Dr cooks also...is the one and only time my horse ever bucked with me on....he really didnt like it. luckily I had it on trial for 30 days so sent it back and got a refund. apparantly "my horse is the only one ever to not get on with it" erm yes right ! i have tried a hackamore which he gets on ok with.....not had a problem with it and can only really be severe if you make it tat way yourself, I barely have to touch the rein..... much nicer than getting my arms pulled out for 50 miles or so.
 
kazhar said:
I have tried a scawbrig which my horse gets on well with at home....but I wouldnt have enough brakes on an endurance ride unfortunately..if he wanted to go..he could in that. so I tried a Dr cooks also...is the one and only time my horse ever bucked with me on....he really didnt like it. luckily I had it on trial for 30 days so sent it back and got a refund. apparantly "my horse is the only one ever to not get on with it" erm yes right ! i have tried a hackamore which he gets on ok with.....not had a problem with it and can only really be severe if you make it tat way yourself, I barely have to touch the rein..... much nicer than getting my arms pulled out for 50 miles or so.
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Your horse really isnt the only one to dislike the Dr Cooks. We have a mare who goes really well in it, but one that hated it. I think some horses just dont like the feel of it tighten around their head.
I generally prefer riding in a rope halter or bitless that doesnt have any leverage, as these tend to be the mildest. With a horse with a sensitive nose, i would use a fleece on the nosepiece to make it more comfy.
I think that if u are going to change a horse from a bitted bridle to a bitless bridle, its important to make sure ur horse knows how to react to the reins. I generally make sure that they can back up from nose pressure, and bend really light, so if they decide to run away with me, i can bend them to a stop. But if u work at your halt transitions well enough, stopping in a bitless is really easy, for any horse.
Good luck with whatever u decide to use on your horse.
 
when I was going through a "bits are cruel" phase I used to ride at one riding/hacking school where they only kept horses in bitless bridles. Great, I thought at first. Except the later I found out that:

1) the horses became used to leaning into the bridle all the time - all of them - so after some time you became used to pulling against it all the time too. A very bad habit in case you ever want to ride with a bit again!
2) time after time some of the horses apparently became "naughty" so were put back into bitted bridles!

I'm not sure what sort of bitless bridles they used but the whole thing was pretty pathetic.
But of course if you don't try it you'll never know!
 
thank guys or all your replies:cool:
ive got a lot to think about, maybe i need to try him in a diffrent bit maybe a happy mouth or one that has rollers.
i think i would like to try a hackamore all we do is hack out 4/5 times aweek.
all checks done inc teeth a couple of weeks ago.
 
quirky said:
Umm no, read the post properly!!!

Wolf teeth in the upper jaw, most horses tend to have.

Lower jaw wolf teeth are extremely rare, as any Googled article will tell you.

As an aside, one of the (allegedly) best EDT's in the country saw her late last year and he didn't spot them either, anything to say about that??????
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Sorry, but wolf teeth in the lower jaw are not rare, by any means. If they were in the upper jaw, why would they interfere with the bit?
 
intouch said:
Sorry, but wolf teeth in the lower jaw are not rare, by any means. If they were in the upper jaw, why would they interfere with the bit?
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You seem to know better than the vets and EDT's that have written articles on wolf teeth.

The quote below is taken from good old H&H

Some 40 to 80% of domestic horses have at least one wolf tooth, most commonly in the upper jaw. Those in the lower jaw are more rare and likely to be associated with discomfort with the bit. They can be hard to see and are best detected by feeling a little bump on the gums of the lower jaw.

This article:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/article.php?aid=98294

So, you're wrong, go on, admit it :D:D
 
I put my horse in a dr cooks for a few months as he was very head shy - there are loads of good points of it, I still have it and would use it again but there were a few bad points

- he learnt to lean on it, he'd put his head down into it and plough on, but maybe it doesn't help that he's got a huge neck anyway
- I had to put a sheepskin cover over the noseband because any sweat rubbed against his face and left horrible marks!
- trying to put one back together again is a difficult task!
- he then established running off quite spectacularly in the school in it, I just don't think he respected it very much once he learnt to lean into it!

but like I said, there were also a lot pro points to it for me, but you did ask for the negatives so I won't bore you with them! maybe one day I'll use it again, but for now I'm back to using a bit
 
If you try the Dr Cook style, just be careful how and where you introduce it. Friend tried one on her pony, he went mental at the pressure (not sure if it didn't release properly, apparently they can be bad for this) and bolted round and round the field until she came off.

Needless to say she has stuck to a conventional bridle.......
 
I ride one of mine in a dually, very tricky mare to back and has a lot of issues. She goes very well in an outline, soft and supple, she is now starting to work with a bit with a dually, she works off of the seat and leg with guidance from the reins and this is carrying on now with the bit, she never pulls, never dreams of taking hold and is well behaved hacking in all company with horses galloping off left right and centre.

As with everything the answer is ground work and control, and being carried forward to ridden work. Different pressure points work very well for different horses, years ago there was a showjumper who would not wear a bridle and she adapted a bridle to have a bit held in his mouth with just a nosepiece and loose curb it was an international horse.

Try going bitless, but keep the bit in till you are 100% sure you are ok without it. If your horse goes well in a headcollar I strongly recommend a dually.
 
quirky said:
You seem to know better than the vets and EDT's that have written articles on wolf teeth.

The quote below is taken from good old H&H

Some 40 to 80% of domestic horses have at least one wolf tooth, most commonly in the upper jaw. Those in the lower jaw are more rare and likely to be associated with discomfort with the bit. They can be hard to see and are best detected by feeling a little bump on the gums of the lower jaw.

This article:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/article.php?aid=98294

So, you're wrong, go on, admit it :D:D
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If I hadn't have to have wolf teeth removed from the lower jaw of at least 6 horses, I'd be happy to admit I was wrong - I've never had them removed from the upper jaw. Now we don't use bits, I'm happy for the horses on our yard to keep their wolf teeth - and three of them have them - on their lower jaws. Don't believe everything you read in H&H!! Real life and experience count for more.
 
intouch said:
If I hadn't have to have wolf teeth removed from the lower jaw of at least 6 horses, I'd be happy to admit I was wrong - I've never had them removed from the upper jaw. Now we don't use bits, I'm happy for the horses on our yard to keep their wolf teeth - and three of them have them - on their lower jaws. Don't believe everything you read in H&H!! Real life and experience count for more.
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Oh dear, there's always somebody who knows better than the professionals :o:rolleyes:.

It isn't just H&H, as I said, Google lower jaw wolf teeth and every result mentions how rare it is :).

Maybe you are just unlucky to have bought 6 horses that were freaks :eek:, like mine :cool::D:D.
 
I have seen a horriffic injury from a hackamore, a horse took bolted on the beach and the person pulled so hard she cracked the horses nasal bone :eek:
You can get milder bittless bridles but some hackamores are very strong.
 
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