Does anyone have or know a nutty Connemara?

[Patterdale]

So last year I bought a lovely 3 year old performance bred connie.

Fast forward 10 months and, despite spending £100s on schooling and being no novice myself, he's been branded dangerous to the point I've been advised he be PTS. I can't work out why he is doing the behaviour.

Since this has happened I've started coming across lots of people who've had or known of similar Connemaras. Before this I thought they were one of the nicest breeds, temperament wise. Now I'm wondering.

Soooo.....anyone else?

 

[ycbm]

So last year I bought a lovely 3 year old performance bred connie.

Fast forward 10 months and, despite spending £100s on schooling and being no novice myself, he's been branded dangerous to the point I've been advised he be PTS. I can't work out why he is doing the behaviour.

Since this has happened I've started coming across lots of people who've had or known of similar Connemaras. Before this I thought they were one of the nicest breeds, temperament wise. Now I'm wondering.

Soooo.....anyone else?

Friend has a ten year old who is too much for most riders. Michen on here has one that's been very tricky. I know a few others that are very sharp little horses. I would be wary of advising anyone to buy one unless they wanted a competition animal.

 

[Patterdale]

That's exactly what I wanted lol but he got a few weeks into breaking then starting exploding and bolting (proper bolting) v unpredictably and strangely.
Got sent home from one v angry trainer and then another disappointed and bewildered trainer. Been advised never to think of getting on him.

 

[ester]

All the performance bred ones I've known have been **** sharp and quite, ermm fragile personalities if that makes sense, the sort to take things to heart?

Has he taken off again? - I see that's probably a yes, , how much vet work has he had?

 

[Patterdale]

He had back x rays and all kinds of checks then 6 weeks in the field. Came back and now won't even lunge or long rein. He just randomly explodes and turns himself inside out, no regard for anyone's safety or his own. Could be stood in the stable, could be 20 minutes in when he's walking on a long rein after working well. No rhyme or reason, no trigger and no warning.

It's weird and upsetting I haven't actually seen it which makes it harder to process as he's never done it with me.

 

[ester]

I thought that was the case, sadly I suspect something is causing it that you won't be able to find if it's that random, in the stable etc .

 

[Goldenstar]

I know a lovely Connie he been with his family for years and years I have to say he’s a naughty naughty boy but a great horse .

 

[KittenInTheTree]

My view based on what you've posted is that he's barely even four years old yet - still very much a baby, and growing/maturing both physically and mentally. Mine (also performance bred) was a right pain at that age. By five he'd begun to settle down again, and now aged six he's delightful (but still growing). So I'd be inclined to turn your one away and forget about training him for at least a year, especially since you go on to say that he's never demonstrated the behaviour in question with you. He may just need more time. Personally, I think there's a stupid fashion in place for starting them far too young, and these sorts of behaviours are very probably related to that. Just my opinion, do feel free to ignore and/or mock as preferred.

 

[Nari]

Not a Connemara but an ID who sounds almost identical. He got worse & worse until we finally found he had gastric ulcers, once those were treated his behaviour improved though he always remained quirky & sensitive. I carried on for a long time before we got a diagnosis because he was the nicest person & I knew there had to be a reason for the explosions, he was too kind to do it for the hell of it & also he seemed to almost lose control of actions when the outbursts happened, often seeming shocked & shaky afterwards.

If he was mine I'd feel he was far too young & early in his education to make such a drastic decision as pts. I'd get him scoped, treat if I got a positive result & treat for hindgut ulcers *which don't show on a scope) if I didn't. I'd also turn away from all work & treat as a pet for a while, probably trying again next spring & going very slowly to make sure he was relaxed & happy with each step before moving on.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

worrying and weird that he even does it in the stable. agree at 4yo though, I would treat for ulcers (if you've not already) and see if you can get him turned away for a fair while and then maybe see if someone like Maxwell or Peace were an option. I have a horse thats a non-ridden fwiw (not a connie though) and I spent as much on diagnostics and pro help that I could and then cut my losses but his issues were only when ridden.

eta my horse is a breed that seemingly indifferent breeding has introduced some issues-of the group that mine came over with most have had to specialist trainers such as J Webb etc. I also think some of the issues with mine were brought about by unsympathetic starting that I didnt know about until after it had happened.

 

[SpringArising]

I don't think I'd go any further with a horse who's unpredictably dangerous on the ground. It's not worth it.

We've only had one Connie but he chucked my mum off and broke her shoulder. I had him back a few years later and while he wasn't nutty he was a rude little ****** and tried to deck me as well!

My friend bought a Connie and had to sell on to a pro rider.

I think as with all breeds there are hot and 'normal' ones.

 

[Casey76]

The two Connemaras I’ve known personally were nutters.

One was 20+ and regularly used to make unilateral decisions whilst hacking; the other was a competition pony, and regularly used to get warnings at the xc phase in ODE for being “out of control”

 

[be positive]

I have had two in my yard fairly recently, the first had man made issues of separation anxiety and being nervous in traffic but was otherwise safe and sensible, he was a really smart pony that had been failed by his previous owner/ trainers so never achieved very much living here as a hack until he was pts.
The other became a super confidence giving competition schoolmaster while here, he was uncomplicated in almost every way and could never have been described as anything other than straightforward and sane to ride, both were bred in England and had very few homes.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

hmm, I have known of some a couple of headbanger TB x Connies and always put it down to the TB part!

 

[BenvardenRach2]

I own a connie and a connie x ISH they are both fab and i do not have any behavior/ridden issues with them, only thing i will say is that they are stubborn bu**ers haha!
Like others have said unfortunately not all personalities reflect the breed characteristics, I hope it's just him being a baby and not being ready to 'adult' yet... fingers crossed he comes right

 

[[59668]]

I had a VERY tricky quirky sharp verging on dangerous one. Would never get another

 

[Laafet]

Mine could be counted in this sort of area, we have come to an agreement now, me and him, where he has promised not to kill me and I don't stress him out. He has strange OCD tendancies, like having to poo at the side of wherever he is, so he won't go on the road and gets upset if you don't let him park in a bush, he also must absolutely has to stop to perform the act otherwise he has a mental breakdown when the poo touches his legs. We went through a really bad patch where I had to dope him to ride him, he was incredibly sharp and reactive putting me on the deck a number of times. Turned out he hated the competition yard we were on and after I had had some mindset coaching and moved him to a more chilled out yard with 24/7 turn this behaviour decreased so I don't dope him any more. However he is constantly on that cusp of being hysterical at times so I would not put anyone else on him, he is very strong and quick when he wants to be. That said, I love him to bits and he is my best friend, he's not everyone's cup of tea but he is mine.

 

[honetpot]

I have owned four, my old boy who is 18 who I have just bought back is not an easy pony. I bought him from the breeder estate when he was two, and backed him at 3/4 ourselves, he was easy and uncomplicated but we did everything slowly. We sold him as my daughter was 5'9'' at fourteen to an experienced Connemara home, where he did well in competitions but reading between the lines I think he was a bit much for his older owner and someone else rode.
I then lost track of him for nearly 12 years, but looking at his passport he changed hands every two years, he was an expensive pony but I think if you press the wrong buttons or get after him he dumps people. I caught up with him about three years ago when he was being ridden nicely by a 12 year old, who asked little of him and they got on well. When they sold him he had 3 homes in two years an that is when I bought him back.

I worked on a Connemara stud in the 70's, and the ponies then were nearly all under 13.2, and more Thelwell type, not the taller SP/RP we see to today, I wish I had more photos of the dumpy brood mares back then. The trouble is now they have combined the ponies active mind with the athleticism of a TB type, which has the ability to twist, buck and run. You not only have to have the ability to ride well but understand a ponies brain, trying to school it out of them just makes them fitter and more creative.
My other three Connemaras all had a kink and if I wanted to choose an even tempered pony from a breed I would go to NF or Highland which so far do not seen to have been overly selected.
I think a lot of trainers make the mistake of thinking a pony is a small horse, it is definitely not and has a completely different attitude to work and seems to be able to spot rider mistakes and retain them. That's why I think you have to train the rider to ride the pony and there is usually no value in a trainer schooling it as soon as the 'weaker' rider gets on its just sees an open door.

 

[SEL]

He had back x rays and all kinds of checks then 6 weeks in the field. Came back and now won't even lunge or long rein. He just randomly explodes and turns himself inside out, no regard for anyone's safety or his own. Could be stood in the stable, could be 20 minutes in when he's walking on a long rein after working well. No rhyme or reason, no trigger and no warning.

It's weird and upsetting I haven't actually seen it which makes it harder to process as he's never done it with me.

It does sound like some sort of pain reaction. Is he back home now? When you say he wont lunge or long rein now is that with you at home? It is something I would want to see for myself and assess before going down the PTS route. It is also one of those cases the Tom Beech & Rob Jackson's of this world can sometimes work a miracle with where the vets can't.

 

[LaurenBay]

Have you though of a possible tumor on the brain? A friend at the stables had to PTS her 4YO Horse for the same sort of issues, he was also very aggressive.

 

[ester]

Have you though of a possible tumor on the brain? A friend at the stables had to PTS her 4YO Horse for the same sort of issues, he was also very aggressive.

That was my concern TBH.

 

[confirmedponyaddict]

I've owned my connemara for over 10 years now and when I first got him I could barely ride one side of him and he was never dangerous to handle but was always ready to run, couldn't keep weight on him as he was so anxious all the time. I would love to say he's totally changed...he hasn't, I've just learnt to manage him better, we are on our own yard, he is turned out with mares- hates other geldings, either bullies them or gets bullied- and he dislikes any kind of change, however tiny. Incredibly sharp to ride but once you know him he's a donkey. I adore him and would have another the same in a heartbeat (would be nice to have one that did the dressage element of eventing not just the double clear) but I realise for other people he would be the pony from hell.
Re the unpredictable behaviour, we had one in the dealer yard I used to work at that would behave like that, never got him diagnosed (because my boss was a heartless cow who didn't care) but we suspected broken ribs as it always happened when you went near his sides, but he didn't do it every time. Might be worth giving him some time and if it is some kind of traumatic injury it may sort itself...long shot I know but sometimes things melt away on their own.

 

[Patterdale]

Thanks very much for all the replies.

Brain tumour/some kind of neurological issue is what the trainer thinks. I asked the vet who pooh-poohed it saying it's an urban myth to explain bad behaviour and that he'd never seen one in 30 years of practice. So I dunno.

Since he's come back I've been reminded of what a lovely pony he is to deal with. He was such an easy breaker, my kids were riding him round the yard after a few weeks, just very kind. He's always had a bit about him, never been a dope on a rope but he's always been kind. Which is why I struggle with what everyone here is telling me.

My options are pretty limited;
1. start working him again myself
2. send to another trainer
3. turn away
4. sell
5. investigate
6. PTS

1. I'm not allowed as he's been branded dangerous. I also don't want to for the same reasons. Not an option.
2. I think it would be irresponsible to put someone else in danger, and would also stress him beyond belief. Not an option.
3. I don't have endless space and grass for useless horses but it could be done. But then what!?
4. I would actually consider this to the right home - if he wasn't what he is. But a well bred, nice colour 14.2 Connemara with amazing paces, a massive jump and a lovely nature is a dodgy dealers dream. If he was 16hh and I didn't think a child might get him, I might. But as it is - not an option.
5. Expensive - and to what end? Even if he has terrible ulcers, should something with such extreme reactions be ridden?
6. Probably the most sensible and safest option on paper - but I just can't. He's a nice, kind healthy pony. Not an option.

Personally, I think it's pain. I think he's screaming at us. I don't think he's just a wrong un.

I think I'm going to get him scoped for ulcers and any other diagnostic things we can come up with. He's insured. He'll then have had a good chance?

Any thoughts very welcome!!

 

[Red-1]

I remember reading about your pony, how you backed him and he was no trouble then went to a trainer where he was.

The fact that the trainer was angry makes me think something untoward was done, even if unintentional. Anger at a horse with problems is not a normal reaction of a good trainer. It seems defensive to me.


The second trainer sounds more genuine.


It must be hard for you as you have not had any of this behaviour. I guess, if you don't want to have a sit yourself (understandably) that it depends on how much money you want to throw at it. Could he go to one of the specialist horse trainers?


I take it he had the same saddle on at both training yards to the one you had at home?


I would certainly have saddle, ulcers etc re-checked. A bute trial at a specialist yard if nothing is found?

 

[Patterdale]

The first trainer was very angry and I strongly suspect the horse had a good hiding from him
I sent a well-fitting saddle with him but in the bucking video he sent the pony had a massive saddle on which clearly didn't fit as it was flying everywhere. He also had no hat and trainers on.....

The second trainer he had a well-fitting saddle. He didn't Buck with him until day 5 and I immediately had his back checked and x rayed when a small sore spot was found. X Ray was clear and another back check 3 weeks later was fine.

 

[ester]

I think for your own sanity throwing vet work that the insurance will hopefuly pay out for is not a bad route to take. Nor would getting Tom beech/rob out to give an opinion/see if they have any hunches.

You've had him a fair time pre backing without issues or strange reactions to things so I'd wonder if A something happened at the first yard that you have not been told about, or backing has aggravated something that is seriously painful when in affects him.

I've known one with a tumour, but he did go from fine to very strange over period of days (and was obviously PTS quick then).

 

[Nari]

If he has ulcers that are causing him problems then you may well find the extreme reactions go away once they're treated, I know it did with mine. He could still be sharp & opinionated but the sudden explosion that came with no warning & with no regard to either of our safety stopped, and it was only then I realised just how extreme his behaviour had been. It may take him some time to realise things don't hurt anymore, and for you to trust him again, but at 4 you have time.

If you don't want to work with him yourself would it be possible to get someone in to work with him at home with you there? It would be far less stressful for him, though I'd still leave him until spring unless you can find & fix a physical problem that takes away the pain.

 

[Kezzabell2]

Are you sure your horse is not in pain?

My connie x tb was branded dangerous / needing to be sold to someone who could handle him.

before I decided to part with him, I got the vet out to make sure he didn't have any kind of mental health issues. Guess what! he was actually lame! and despite paying £45 every week for a lesson with a "professional" no one noticed this.

He has hock spavin on this back left and pedal osteitis on his front right! after a year of treatment and remedial shoing, my vet suggested removing his shoes!! this was almost 3 years ago! and guess what I no longer have a dangrous horse!!

Okay he doesn't like schooling and will try it on, but actually that doesn't both me, I can take him anywhere else with absolutely no issues!

PS he was 18 months old when I got him!! his issues occurred when he was 4, had been backed for about 6 months. He's now 8!

 

[WelshD]

I had a few problems with my mare at one point, nowhere near as bad as yours and she isn't a Connie but for what it's worth I will relate....

I had various people all happy to chip in with their opinions (some professional people some not) ranging from Wobblers, a brain tumour, blindness to her being an angry mare with a bad attitude and her 'brain had gone' (that last one after she had thrown herself on the floor in the stable in a 'temper')

I got more and more confused and ran myself ragged with vets, behaviourists, dentist, farrier, saddler etc etc before realising (with help from a fresh set of eyes) that it all came down to how the mare was being handled and her routine (or lack of one) she was just so sensitive that she couldn't cope with people in a hurry, bashing buckets together, throwing tack on her etc.. and a lack of routine meant she didn't know what was coming next, it literally was that straightforward. She is a completely changed mare with a bit of tweaking to her management

When she next went off the rails she started to panic and run with her child rider but again this came down to handling her sensitive side, things started to spiral again because the pony needed help coping, needed direction etc but the rider was too busy being nervous or angry to help so the pony panicked

I've learned that trainers aren't necessarily good or bad but sometimes not a good 'fit' for a particular equine's personality, they don't always adjust their handling to acommodate the different personalities of their charges

If your gut is telling you that the pony you have now is not what you sent away for schooling I would go with that gut instinct and hang in there

I'd personally either turn the pony away and take all pressure off or I would send him to someone like Micky Gavin for evaluation, Micky is I suppose what they describe as a natural horsemanship person however alongside that he has a huge amount of really solid common sense and bravery to take on these sorts of cases. He is expensive but he doesn't overload his stables to make ends meet, he only has in what he has time to cope with

 

[SusieT]

They don't tolerate abuse. My guess is he has either been pushed beyong a point he didn't understand (he is only just 4) and flipped, or has a painful stimulus somewhere.

I'd work very slowly and build up his confidence at teeny tiny steps - very few horses are 'bad' just misunderstood or overdone.