Does anyone on here NOT agree with raw/BARF diet for dogs?

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I'm finding it quite difficult to find impartial articles on the web!

Does anyone think it is a bad way to feed your dog and could potentially be more dangerous than regular dog food?

If so why?
 
I don't disagree with it in principle. I just can't bring myself to feed large quantities of raw meat on the bone to Harvey. Personal thing...a mental block some might say.

I am more concerned about the associated risk should the dog contaminate the house with raw meat germs, than anything else. It'd possibly a small risk, but I'm a bit funny about handling raw meat full stop anyway. Makes me cringe. Good job I married a farmer eh? LOL

I believe there is a slightly increased risk of salmonella in some cases and I did read an article that said there could be an increase in the worm burdens if not fed on human grade meat. The latter obviously is taken care of with worming.

I guess having "do not feed chicken bones" to a dog is drummed into me as well, even though I do accept logically that this refers to cooked bones.
 
Thanks Patches. I'm with it I just worry about bones in tummies (especially with my pointer because she's a big greedy gobbler!) and also salmonella as you said - although I guess that is quite specific to chicken?

Also my pointer gets terrible squits with cooked bones from the pet shop - hoping raw don't have the same effect!

I don't want to continue feeding my dogs crappy dog food though.
 
I don't feed raw because I don't have a freezer, I can't afford a freezer, and even if I could I have no space for a freezer, and I am getting fed up with various articles making me feel like a bad owner for this! Not everyone can feed raw.

Henry has a shiny coat and plenty of energy, and my last dog lived to a ripe old age on bought food.
 
You are far from a bad owner hun.....like I mentioned in some of my posts and in Arus as even their nutritionist at college as mentioned some dogs live in Lidl spesh for along time......I have a 17 year old dog and a 17 year old cat and a 14 year old deerhound, never had a health issue in their life......they have been fed on all sorts of diets.
I certainly do not belive all health issues are even a majority an be blamed on food......I work at the vets and I rarely have my dogs in for anything at all(typical) I pay next to nowt
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......I have never had to empty their glands since I can remember and their pooh is minimal and firm
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I don't feel bad at all for not feeding raw......I have nothing against it mind u, it's just I have 10 and im not sure how I would store it either, and if I did I would not put the oldies on it.
At first I was a little warey of the bone thing, I have seen plenty of dogs with stuck uncoocked bones through work(no where near as many as cooked mind you)
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Bones are the biggest thing to get your head round, since we have all been brainwashed into thinking "bones bad" it's a bit of a leap of faith. But it does like CC said earlier make you feel very fluffy when you see them really enjoying a proper meal.
The old saying "fit as a butchers dog" says it all really and you bet in the days that the phrase originated they were fed bones as you wouldn't waste any meat on a dog!

There are alternatives for those that do not want to go the whole hog! There are some recipies for home cooked diets for dogs and since we are moving back to good home cooking ourselves (well maybe) it doesn't take much more effort to cook for the dog too! But I just can't be ar*ed!

First night back at dog training last night in a new hall and Digger disgraced himself royally twice (so embarrased) but my trainer commented on the lack of smell and the fimness of his little deposits! He did pull himself out of the dog house with a lovely recall and heeled off lead over the pile of cheese so he was quickly forgiven!
 
I agree, some of the stuff sounds a bit fanatical, doesn't it? I had a brief dalliance with the Barf diet a few years ago and tbh I was sick of seeing plates of raw chicken in the fridge all the time! Could put you right off your roast chicken.
 
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I am getting fed up with various articles making me feel like a bad owner for this! Not everyone can feed raw.

Henry has a shiny coat and plenty of energy, and my last dog lived to a ripe old age on bought food.

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No one is saying that you are a bad owner; you can feed whatever you choose.

But it is no bad thing to be aware of what is in the food you feed your dog, nor is it a bad thing for owners to improve the lot of their dogs by asking pertinent questions of feed companies and putting a stop to underhand practices and non declaration of ingredients.

These companies are powerful and ultimately profit driven with few state regulations to conform to, so if owners do not empower themselves and prompt a change in the quality of the feed then who will?

No not every dog is affected by the feed they eat but I personally am alarmed by the rise in skin conditions, ear complaints, stomach upsets and most alarmed by a carnivore that becomes diabetic, therefore if I think there is an alternative or and interesting piece of information I will post it.
 
It does, but as I read more it's making me more convinced it's what I think will be best for my dogs, but also making me feel a bit of a weirdo at the same time!!
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Ideally, I'd feel best if I could cook for them, but also can't be arsed!!!
 
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It does, but as I read more it's making me more convinced it's what I think will be best for my dogs, but also making me feel a bit of a weirdo at the same time!!
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Ideally, I'd feel best if I could cook for them, but also can't be arsed!!!

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It takes four minutes, roughly in the microwave to cook a chicken breast in some water. Effectively boiled chicken. I pick it out of the hot water with bacon tongues, tip the hot water out and add cold. Pop it back in and it's nigh on cool enough to eat instantly (Although I let it stand for a minute or so because of the microwave cooking).

I am not sure I can be bothered with the whole raw thing either. I have enough trouble remembering to get a joint of meat out of the freezer to defrost for Sunday dinner.

However, I am going to endeavour to add fresh meat to Harvey's Orijen dry dog food (which incidentally is a BARK dog food - biologically appropriate real-food kibble) as a treat. Not sure if it's necessary given the 75% meat/25% fruit vegetable content of the kibble anyway. This is my compromise to not feeding raw.

My old dog lived on Bakers for the first 10 years of his life because I didn't know any better...and he loved it. He died at 14 from a stroke. Never had a stiff/sorry day in him until that time. Apart from greying around his mouth and his ears you would never have believed he was 14, right up until 15 minutes before his first stroke.

What a way to go, eh? Fit and active until almost the day he died (he was put down three days later after two subsequent strokes).

The only issues he had were dental. However, he wouldn't have adapted to a raw diet with bones as he never, ever in all his 14 years chewed anyway. He would carry a bone, pigs ear or raw hide chew around....but he'd never chew it. He simply didn't help himself to clean his teeth. Regular brushing helped in his younger years, but not as he got older.
 
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......I have nothing against it mind u, it's just I have 10 and im not sure how I would store it either, and if I did I would not put the oldies on it.

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My sis has 8 on it and I know some mushers with about 20 on the diet - an industrial freezer and a nearby chicken plant is their approach!

It's just a case I beleive of getting organised and some major sucking up to the local butcher! With only two I don't really have to get organised and mine will eat chicken popsicles quite happily if and when I forget to defrost!

I have a small chest freezer (£25 in freeads) and sis has a tall upright in the garage, we both keep the dog food separate from ours just in case. Filling my freezer from the butcher costs £8-£10 per month for 2 plus the freezer running costs of course!
 
TBH I don't know enough about it to form an opinion on it and also doubt I'd have the time for it! All of my dogs do well on the current foods they're on (although schnauzer is on a vet prescribed diet
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......I have nothing against it mind u, it's just I have 10 and im not sure how I would store it either, and if I did I would not put the oldies on it.

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My sis has 8 on it and I know some mushers with about 20 on the diet - an industrial freezer and a nearby chicken plant is their approach!

It's just a case I beleive of getting organised and some major sucking up to the local butcher! With only two I don't really have to get organised and mine will eat chicken popsicles quite happily if and when I forget to defrost!

I have a small chest freezer (£25 in freeads) and sis has a tall upright in the garage, we both keep the dog food separate from ours just in case. Filling my freezer from the butcher costs £8-£10 per month for 2 plus the freezer running costs of course!

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Im being coerced into BARF here
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Tis a poor excuse then....I do have a garage and I could easily put a freezer in there......Im also a bit worried I would not be covering all the diet, I have read up alittle but the vegie stuff confuses me somewhat.....suppose if I had an exact diet sheet or something
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I know they would eat it......I have chucked them chicken thighs b4 and chunks of salmon when we have bought a whole one and OH is hacking one up
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Well I don't agree that BARF is the one and only right thing to feed dogs but that is not the same as not agreeing with it. For some it is right to feed BARF, just as not feeding BARF is right for others.

I don't feel the least bit bad about not feeding raw, my dogs always have as many gnaw bones as possible available, both raw, real and vegetarian ones, they sometimes get leftover things from our dinner, when they're available in the garden some of them eat strawberries, currants, gooseberries and apples, some of them eat wild blueberries when those are available out in the wild (just as studies have showed that some wild wolves eats e.g. wild berries when they can, besides their raw meat, intestines and bones diet), every day they get raw and boiled carrots but their base food is a Swedish dog food of a small, local brand.


By the way, my mother always says that the best, healthiest looking GSD that she has ever met, was my great grandmothers. He was fed one large portion of porridge every morning and if there was any leftovers after the dinner, he maybe got those.

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I do think anyone is a bad owner for not feeding barf.
It works for me and i see the benefits and thats why i feed it.

I do however think you are an irresponsible owner if you don't make yourself aware of what is in your dog food. After all we all want what's best for our pets right?

Up here plenty most of the sport dogs are fed a just meat diet.

My dogs are also fed a just meat diet without vegetables. They do have a couple of eggs a week.

I love it because its easy (ok not as easy as just opening a bag)
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and i love seeing my dogs truly enjoying his food.
 
QR Horses for courses
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I would have continued to feed it if my dog wasn't such a sensitive sod but on the plus side it did help me identify what at least one of his sensitivities is, finally.

Educate yourself and do what is best for your dog.
 
Ok here you go Menu - now trot off and start chatting up the butcher!! Remember they have to pay to have all those lovely bits taken away bolied to death and put in or sprayed over dog food, ironic isn't it!

Basically if you feed a variety and aim to balance over a week or two and not every meal the all the nutrition is there in an available non synthetic form. I feed once a day but you can split it into two meals, though that would be messy with carcasses!

So a good sort of menu would be

Day 1 - Chicken carcasses or wings (5 supermarket wings or 1 carcass for a 22kg mutt probably less butchers wings as they are bigger)
Day 2 – Breast of lamb (in half one gets the soft meaty end and the other the bony end and if I remember who’s had what I rotate that on the next lamb meal)
Day 3 – Offal - Liver/Hearts or Tripe with a couple of teaspoons of blended veg and a raw egg. Will put a handful of pumpkin seeds in the blender now and again as they help detach worms from the digestive tract, (may possibly helps sis has had 0 worm counts for years) Mine hate kidneys!
Day 4 – Chicken (Carcases or wings for mine as they maintain weight, if you have a skinny go for legs or thighs with more muscle meat)
Day 5 – Fishies ( Pilchards in tomato sauce with some raw fish mixed in – like whitebait or the OH’s catch in your case.) with an egg and some cold pressed oil
Day 6 – Breast of lamb
Day 7 – Piggie tootie (careful Piggie can make the fart so can be a bit dodgy for those prone to problems)
Day 8 – Chicken
Day 9 - minced meat or something like stewing steak – whatever is on offer with a bit of eggie veg and oil if it’s mince or chunks.
Day 10 – Exotics – Rabbit, game or sometimes real treat Oxtail or a turkey leg
Day 11 – Chicken
Day 12 – Lamb bones with a bit of meat on them
Day 13 – Offal & veg
Day 14 – Chicken

Some supplement with Kelp, but I keep forgetting to buy it! Apparently alfalfa sprouts are good too, they will eat the horse’s alfalfa but if I put it in their feed they turn their noses up! I use any veg that’s cheap or that is still in the fridge from the last shop, but they love carrots. It’s blended to break down the cellulose in the plant cell walls so the dogs can get something out of it.

I tend to put my lot in the freezer in mixed levels then they get what comes out in no particular order.

Only thing in WARNING never feed it near the kibble as they move at different speeds through the gut and that’s when you can get impaction problems.

Ian Billingshurst’s book Give Your Dog a Bone is a good reference keep it next to your fav Jamie Oliver recipe book! And the link to sis’s articles:
http://www.brushbow.co.uk/src/speciesmenu.htm
 
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Only thing in WARNING never feed it near the kibble as they move at different speeds through the gut and that’s when you can get impaction problems.


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Just to check KarynK - kibble can be fed with cooked meat/ fish though?
 
I don't think people are bad for not feeding it... you have to do what you feel is right for you..

Like others have said - so long as you care what you feed your dog and research it you can find good quality wet food/ dry food or feed a home cooked diet.

The only down side to BARF from my point of view is that I have to endure lectures from my vet everytime I go in... and if you mention it most people think you are strange..
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The up side is my dog and how happy and healthy he is - how everyone comments on how white his teeth are - how much he enjoys really gnawing a bone - am sure it has mental as well as physical benefits
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I would say it is a good idea to read Ian Billinghurst or another book, rather than make stuff up - just so you can be sure you are getting the right amount of nutrients. Although always remeber that it is a balanced diet over time - not all in one meal
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Good luck with it!
 
All the vets I know don't approve of it. Especially watch raw pork as there is some brain cyst worm thing which is still around, and common enough not to be a notifiable disease...

Think the vets have had to remove too many stuck bones from chicken wings.
 
You are talking about trichinosis re: pork - and this shouldn't be a problem in the UK. It is still a notifiable disease, but see this from the DEFRA website:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/atoz/index.htm#t

There is no evidence that trichinella exists in pigs in the UK. However trichinosis is an important infection in pigs in several other countries because it can affect humans. People may become infected by eating undercooked pig meat containing the parasitic nematode (‘worm’) Trichinella spiralis, which causes the disease. Infection in people can be very serious as the parasites migrate through the muscles, which in some cases has been fatal. Clinical signs of disease are rarely seen in infected animals. The infection is still present in pigs, wild boar and horses in other countries. Disease in humans in the UK was last diagnosed in 2000 linked to consumption of undercooked imported infected pig meat.

Hope that helps
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Incidentally I do know of some vets that are pro BARF/ raw feeding - just none near me
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It would probably advise against it on the instructions! But cooked food with kibble shouldn't be a problem as there are plenty of mixers on the market and years ago we used to feed table scraps with it.

I just caution with raw mainly because of the bone content, it's just much safer to keep them apart if you are going to feed both.
 
It depends on the standard to meat that your feeding id say
...and most importantly where the meat is coming from..
the Eu has strict regulations..the same cant be said for some of the rest of the world..
There are some fears about feeding raw meet to dogs in terms of worm burden and disease but to be honest the risks from british meat bought from a local butchers cut off should be fairly minimal...assuming that the dog is routinely wormed as well.Those animals have been passed for human consumption by the abbatoir so technically they have an even higher standard than most pet foods
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I could see issues with handling to but again that's up to the individual person making up the diet to follow normal procedure when it comes to handling meat ...most of the risks of raw meat would do more likely to do harm to the person not the dog though.Salmonella etc is a risk but again fairly rare in dogs

Il freely admit im not very clued in on the barf diet... im beginning to pick up more and more of it from its fans on here and at some stage do plan to actually do a bit of research and give it a go on the mutt at home...just to see so i can actually know what im talking about when im a "grown up"vet not a student.
We werent actually told it was a bad idea at all in collage so far just to be careful advising it and to tell people to do there research into it before they start and keep the diet balanced....we just didnt go into how that would be achieved either...
with all the things we cover in collage its up to each individual person to put in the extra time to get more detail on the subjects and areas that intreast them...we will be going into more depth next year in nutritin though so it may come up again.

No doubt you will find some pro BARF feeding vets.
its one of the areas where there hasnt been hugh research in due to lack of money and intreast from sponsors more than the fact that people think its wrong...though as vets are people to im sure you will find people who just dont like the idea of feeding raw meat to...on hygiene reasons if nothing else.

but id say its also hard to find vet's to back something that has no scientific research behind....we spend our collage years being told to find research to back up what we are being thought believe...

Its up to each individual owner to make the choice what to feed...as long as the dog is healthy and happy then what difference does it make?

Plus seeing as i was the one who introduced pet food into our house im easy to convince that dogs can thrive on less than they get.
Family is very much old school typical irish country attitude...dog lives outside and eats scraps...ours and all of our relations lived on scraps of human foods from the dinner(the sheep dogs got a handful of working mix too to give them a boost but that was it) and plenty of them lived to old age etc....and those that diet didnt die from diet related problems.

I know now it most certainly was not a balanced diet!
but it does tend to make me very very sceptical about the high end foods that cost so much money if the dog has no problems?fair enough if there are issues but does every dog need them..

The only reson we started feeding Dry food is as our Lab wasnt getting enough exercise and was getting to much starchy carbs(potato skins) so she had gotten very fat
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...(it hadnt been a problem with any of our other labs as there was always someone to play with them,bring them fishing,walking etc before poor Jesse )and its easier to control the amount of dry food given in a dry food to manage her weight as well as seriously upping the exercise she gets
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I was interested yesterday and got some valuable advice but I was thinking about it last night and my dog is 7 this year and i'm a bit worried about changing his diet so drastically, even slowly, so I have decided to kind of keep to what I do now in that he eats what I do. I cook for him aswell so if meat / fish is on the menu he has a portion with his hypo allergenic ( jwb) biscuits and chopped up veggies. He does also have scrambled eggs and tins of oily fish. He also has an oily fish / glucosamine / chondri??? capsule to help his joints.

Its the practicalities aswell, I don't have a freezer large enough, I have an aversion to the idea of giving him bones aswell.

I think people have to make their own minds up tbh and the only thing I object to is the really cheap cr@p you get in tins.
 
There are homeopathic vets in the UK that do recommend the diet and their numbers are growing steadily as they see the benefits and of course Ian Billingshurst is a Vet.

I have chased down many reports re the Chicken Bone myth and have always found the ones professed to be raw to have actually been cooked in some way, there might be rare exceptions but far less than the instances of bloat on kibble diet.

Having fed raw for 11 years and my sister longer involving 20 odd dogs we have never had such an instance and I am sure other raw feeders of length will tell you the same thing. As you can see above my diet is based heavily on chicken bones, I have fed thousands of them since I started and some of mine and sis's are real fast and furious eaters!T

Re Pork, that's why most raw feeders use human grade raw meat, as there is a high safety standard around it. Pork is a take it or leave it in the diet since the nutrients it provides are provided from other sources in the diet and like I say it doesnt suit all dogs being rich and fatty.
 
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There are homeopathic vets in the UK that do recommend the diet and their numbers are growing steadily as they see the benefits and of course Ian Billingshurst is a Vet.

I have chased down many reports re the Chicken Bone myth and have always found the ones professed to be raw to have actually been cooked in some way, there might be rare exceptions but far less than the instances of bloat on kibble diet.

Having fed raw for 11 years and my sister longer involving 20 odd dogs we have never had such an instance and I am sure other raw feeders of length will tell you the same thing. As you can see above my diet is based heavily on chicken bones, I have fed thousands of them since I started and some of mine and sis's are real fast and furious eaters!T

Re Pork, that's why most raw feeders use human grade raw meat, as there is a high safety standard around it. Pork is a take it or leave it in the diet since the nutrients it provides are provided from other sources in the diet and like I say it doesnt suit all dogs being rich and fatty.

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I think you are right about the vets although it's not just the homeopaths who are recommending it. My (regular) vet is a huge fan.

I too think the risks of bones are vastly overestimated. I have a Lab - and we all know how quickly they like to eat! - and she wolfs down her food, including bones, at the speed of light. She has only been on raw food for 8 months, but all our family dogs were raised on raw and neither our dogs or any others we know fed in the same way have had any problems with choking, bones sticking or infection of any kind.
 
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I don't feed raw because I don't have a freezer, I can't afford a freezer, and even if I could I have no space for a freezer, and I am getting fed up with various articles making me feel like a bad owner for this! Not everyone can feed raw.

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I feed raw and when I'm at uni I barely have enough freezer space for my own food let alone the dog's! I just buy fresh from tesco twice a week, market value chicken wings, legs, thighs, beef mince, turkey legs, tinend pilchards etc, you just have to elbow the old ladies out of the way in the reduced section !
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