does it annoy anyone else when you see ......

[LegOn]

I think I would like to see OP ride mine over a 1.10course without a standing martingale or spurs and see what happens!....... If you fancy the challange?!

Well said! I think there is a big difference between jump 70-90cm & doing rounds of 1.10 and above!

OP I'm afraid that until you have ridden the horse yourself, it can be very easy to make a snap judgement.

Was the 'excessive tack' being used on horse jumping smaller fences? Then sometimes you can wonder? But if the horses were jumping 1.10 and above, then I personally feel I could never comment cause I dont jump that level but I do understand that the amount of skill, nerve & ability it takes to do it - whatever tack is needed, you can be sure, is needed!

 

[Ladylina83]

Ladylina83 if a running martingale makes a kink in the rien when the head and hands are in a correct place it is fitted to short it should only come in into action when the head is raised above the point of control.

This is exactly my point - horse raises its head above the point of control and then what happens ??? pressure on the mouth to bring its head down thats how it works, fitting them incorrectly is a whole different thread and can be done with both types of Martingale but a standing won't jab a horse in the mouth that is already sticking its head in the air

 

[ellie_e]

Was the 'excessive tack' being used on horse jumping smaller fences? Then sometimes you can wonder? But if the horses were jumping 1.10 and above, then I personally feel I could never comment cause I dont jump that level but I do understand that the amount of skill, nerve & ability it takes to do it - whatever tack is needed, you can be sure, is needed!

I happily jump him at home in a hanging cheek snaffle and the martingales when the fences are smaller and less of them, a competition environment is so different however, and i would never put him in anything that was just 'fashionable' all tack used servers a purpose in a) me staying on, b)getting to the fence and being able to see where he/me are going, c)stops him charging at the fence and knocking them down with his front legs.
So maybe OP you should think or even ask the owners when you see horses that you think have excessive tack why they have them, before starting silly threads!

 

[Littlelegs]

I don't see the size of the fences is relevant to be honest, if you take mine round a 2'6 she's more likely to be a fool than round a bigger course as she knows damn well she can do it without needing any guidance from the rider!

 

[ellie_e]

I don't see the size of the fences is relevant to be honest, if you take mine round a 2'6 she's more likely to be a fool than round a bigger course as she knows damn well she can do it without needing any guidance from the rider!

Again i think it depends on the horse, 1 of mine is the same will almost laugh in your face asking to go around 80cm and will take the p**s, however the other is lazy and does lack confidence so a pootle around 80cm for fun is quite enjoyable for him as he doesnt have to put much effort in

 

[rhino]

I don't see the size of the fences is relevant to be honest, if you take mine round a 2'6 she's more likely to be a fool than round a bigger course as she knows damn well she can do it without needing any guidance from the rider!

When the fences go up, precision is important. You can mess up at 1m and get away with it from any reasonable horse; you do the same at 1.40 and you are stuffed!

 

[JFTDWS]

When the fences go up, precision is important. You can mess up at 1m and get away with it from any reasonable horse; you do the same at 1.40 and you are stuffed!

Oi. "Reasonable" horse The 1m classes were the precision classes for me and J 1.40 and we would just have gone underneath. Are you calling my J unreasonable



Regarding the OP, I'm often annoyed by people at local jumping who use their reins (attached, often, to strong bits) to hang on over fences, people who yank, pull, tug, spur aggressively, bang about on the horse's back for no reason, on horses who I think do very well despite them. If they're that incompetent as a rider over every fence (no independence of hand), I don't think they should be sjing, let alone being trusted with a pelham with roundings etc. I also don't think the similar riders on ponies wearing snaffles should be there either...

In general though, if the rider's quiet, I don't care too much what the beast is wearing. Sometimes it's vile and chavvy and pink and not to my taste, but it is their horse. I'd also rather see a standing than a running, myself.

 

[ester]

JFTD Frank and I are with you and J about the 1m

op I ride in a gag and spurs a lot. In walk I need the spurs, in canter I need the gag , to stop him being a spooky bugger I need both . I used to jump him in a snaffle but silly sod thinks he knows best all the time and got us in a couple of scrapes so I prefer a little more control, spurs help us round the corners .

 

[Littlelegs]

My original reply was that I don't have a problem with strong tack at all, I meant it more along the lines that there isn't a reason to judge it at a lower height also. Mine wears a gag, because at 14.2 there is no margin for error at a good height. By the same token because she can do a 1.10 course well, she has v little reason to pay attention to a snaffle round a smaller course. I didn't put it very well, I actually meant if being used by a competent rider I don't have a problem what height they do.

 

[Goldenstar]

This is exactly my point - horse raises its head above the point of control and then what happens ??? pressure on the mouth to bring its head down thats how it works, fitting them incorrectly is a whole different thread and can be done with both types of Martingale but a standing won't jab a horse in the mouth that is already sticking its head in the air

No a running martingale itself will not lower the horses head only stop the horse raising it further. A martingale itself will not jab the horse in the mouth it's the human on the end of the rien that does that.
My post made no reference to the effectiveness of standing martingales which I always used when riding away youngsters .i was pionting out that is a running martingale makes a kink in the rien when the horse is not raising it head it's not fitted and functioning properly.

 

[alext]

I must admit I was thinking the op meant local shows and certainly not the dizzy heights if over even a meter!! I see alot of children's ponies in gags with the rider bouncing around on top and it does make me a little annoyed!
I had a lady comment on my ponies tack at a show once , I was tempted to see how far she would get in a snaffle (or rather where she would get) but didn't think it fair on my poor pony!i did laugh when her friend turned up with horse in exactly the same tack as mine though! It did however it did ruin my day and had she come and asked me I would of happily told her why he was wearing that tack. Think she was threatened by us as pony they had there was an absolute pocket rocket looking fairly uncontrolable in his snaffle!
It was a shame that it ruined my day as it was one of the last shows I did with my boy and him being 23 we where there for some fun !!

 

[kerilli]

I've seen a saint of a horse being ridden in a gag on the last ring and spurs. This horse could take you round a course in a headcollar, but because he's over bitted and they use spurs, he acts like a naughty horse and who can blame him!! When it's for a reason, then it's not so bad, but when people go over the top on such a good horse, it baffles me.

This. I know that some horses might need it all, and fair enough if they do, but some really don't. I sold my lovely 14.2, who I rode very successfully in a snaffle, no martingale, with no spurs ever (didn't own a pair, didn't have a secure enough leg position for them anyway) and when I was invited to see his new jockey on him at a show, she had half the tackroom on his head and spurs. Poor boy looked mega stressed by it. It really upset me.
Most kids just don't have enough control over their legs to use spurs properly yet. They are not a goad, they are supposed to be to refine and pin-point the aid.

 

[JFTDWS]

JFTD Frank and I are with you and J about the 1m

op I ride in a gag and spurs a lot. In walk I need the spurs, in canter I need the gag , to stop him being a spooky bugger I need both . I used to jump him in a snaffle but silly sod thinks he knows best all the time and got us in a couple of scrapes so I prefer a little more control, spurs help us round the corners .

I used to ride J in a gag and spurs too - it was the only way I could prevent being "buried" in the bottom of a fence when he tries to put a short one in - gag to get his head up and spurs to make him listen when I dictated "take off NOW". I never used the spurs to kick him round the course (didn't need them) and only had a light contact (by some people's standards, no contact ) on the gag as I only needed it to keep him up in front and steer occasionally...

 

[Nannon]

My fella is in a French link snaffle and cavesson nose band with a standing martingale and the amount of s**t I got off other people for jumping in it was mental - he was one of those ill try to head but you in the face but he hated a running martingale with a passion and was mad to ride and goes lovely with the standing on.
I did however have a lovely but very forward going show jumper who came to me with a variety of fashion bits - was told he needed a myler combination - he would just tank off when you got on and picked up the reins! Changed it to a French link snaffle and we went fab, soft as putty and would do whatever you liked with a light contact - owner just made him look difficult!

 

[sophiebailey]

Wow interesting views everyone thanks! Think it's good to know how everyone uses different bits of tack for different means, I've learnt alot reading this thread!!!

Lets be clear I was never attacking anybody, wouldn't dream of commenting to a rider/owner on their preference of tack, just stated my opinion that sometimes (perhaps I should have added this in initially) at the local level showing I went to last night, I saw children (and some adults) in the first two classes (so jumping below 2ft) jabbing ponies/horses with spurs and then gobbing them when they shoot forward into the fences, which was where my musings came from that I think it annoys me when I see an overusage of tack if it's being used badly I suppose.

I accept everyone's comments about certain types of horses needing different kinds of riding/schooling attention etc, and have been very interested to read everyone's responses and educate myself as to different applications - as one person correctly pointed out I was under the impression that a stronger bit = more brakes and spurs = go faster, I wasn't aware spurs served for steering purposes also I learn something new every day on this forum!

As for minding my own business, if you don't ask for questions/opinions how are you never going to get an answer? This thread isn't silly I don't think, as it's given me access to a wide range of viewpoints I wouldn't have been able to access otherwise. I have never commented to a rider or anyone else for the matter in RL about other peoples tack, just came on here to see if anyone shared my viewpoint that some people use alot of gadgets that seem to contradict eachother especially when used harshly. I've never been to any affiliated showing so was not commenting on experienced riders who can use each piece of tack effectively (should have perhaps said this also!!)

Also, I know Bail's is in a pelham with roundings in my sig, that was the bit he came to me with and those photo's were taken the month I got him, he's now ridden in either a straight bar snaffle or a french link snaffle and the pelham is gathering dust at home as for all the kind offers of jumping other peoples horses NO THANKS my jumping leaves a lot to be desired which is why I very rarely jump lol

I did not ever say that people who over tack are 'BAD OWNERS' and I don't believe they are, I just find it frustrating to watch these little ponies and some horses looking a bit confused as to what they're actually doing!

Good thread though, gonna go back and re-read all your responses and learn some more

 

[MagicMelon]

I believe people use strong bits and or/spurs, martingales etc. to cover up lack of schooling. Especially the kids. Children IMO should never be allowed to use spurs and the ponies should be taught to not lean / not be strong. I hate seeing a horse over-tacked, maybe some people think it makes them look "cool" I dont know. Personally, I compete mine BSJA and BE in a dressage-legal snaffle, cavesson noseband, no martingale and no spurs. I've even had one person approach me at a BE event a year ago and compliment me saying it was so nice to see someone competing with minimal tack! Its such a shame thats not the norm, because theres no way 90% of horses needs all that rubbish!