Does she NEED fronts on? Opinions pls

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SillyFilly

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Rising 4, Sec D, backed last Sept, winter off, restarted early March.

We do very little school work after establishing basics. Have progressed hacking from going with company to now hacking alone (has been v nappy, so major achievement for us!!) She loves being out and about.

We hack around 5 days a week between 20-45 mins, varied through week. She has never been shod and always had fantasic hard feet....(fellow livery had a double take when we hacked out as she sounded shod on the concrete:))

But, shes footy on gravel/stony tracks and I can feel her back off/ become tentative....she also seems to be picking up little stones in her line (obvs I get them all out)

Spoke to farrier and he says sounds like she might need fronts, shes due a trim end of month, and he will assess then. If she needs them, she'll get them....but I relly did want to keep her barefoot. Cant imagine for one min she would tolerate hoof boots. Shes perfectly sound and happy in all other circumstances.

So, any other way around this? Any suppliments to try before shoes get whacked on?.....or is that just how it is? I dont want to cut down on hacking as I dont feel she is ready to pile on the school work yet...she can rear like a good un' if pushed to far, so dont want to sour her.... we enjoy going out, and its doing her confidence the world of good.

Oh, shes fed a restricted diet....small scoop Happy Hoof (ha!) tiny splash of v watery speedybeet....restricted hay fed in small portions....and restriced grazing until eaten down some....v good doer....

Thanks in advance....may be clutching at straws, but worth an ask :D
 
Do you do much road work with her? This is normally good for hardening up the feet, I would try to gradually increase the ammount you do, starting from 10 mins a day, it should make a difference. What sort of trim does your farrier give her? I find sometimes they can take too much off which can weaken the hoof. Diet is often a key factor too, you ar eon the right lines but could do more with this, personally I am not a fan of happy hoof as it still contains mollasses, and really you want to avoid sugar. Maybe try something like fast fibre? Or a good vit and min supp with unmollassed chaff (something like Dengie unmollassed hifi) Linseed meal is often good for barefooters as it is a good source of vits and mins. Anyway this is what I do with my two and it works for them :) Would be worth really researching the subject if this is what you want to do with her, it will be worthwhile.
 
I'm at exactly the same point as you and I'm going to have fronts put on mine. Hopefully this week. Don't suppose that helps at all but it's what I would do (obviously)
 
SillyFilly said:
Cant imagine for one min she would tolerate hoof boots. :D
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Why on earth not?

I've never known a horse who would not tolerate them. I personally would not accept a horse telling me that it will not wear boots, I would continue to desensitize them until it would.


I think you also need a serious look at how much grass she gets. Good doers can often need a very restricted carbohydrate diet to go shoeless.
 
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I thought mine would not tolerate hoof boots he's an extremely nervous self aware KWPN I got my trimmer to measure his feet and chose the best ones for him and he perfectly happy in them and he's a horse who once had a stress attack when I first tried to put a brown saddle cloth on him rather than a white one.
 
It sounds to me as if you have very nearly got things spot on for your mare to continue without shoes,but some horses just need a little extra help.
This company (http://shop.forageplus.com/products) have been doing forage analysis for several years and have found the most common deficiencies throughout the country and come up with a simple mineral balancer. Feeding this should help produce and stronger hoof with a tighter white line.
The amount of work you are doing sounds fantastic for a barefoot horse,partlicularly if you can encourage self trimming on loose stones to help your mare show your farrier where she would like her feet to be.;)
 
Goldenstar said:
I thought mine would not tolerate hoof boots he's an extremely nervous self aware KWPN I got my trimmer to measure his feet and chose the best ones for him and he perfectly happy in them and he's a horse who once had a stress attack when I first tried to put a brown saddle cloth on him rather than a white one.
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:D:D:D

I've got a KWPN very much like that. Would be interested to know if they share bloodlines!
 
I may be wrong but I think Happy Hoof has moglo in it? Might be worth trying a feed with no molasses or moglo in it.
 
I feed farriers formula but it's probably more expensive than putting fronts on!
Mine is barefoot, I do occasionally put boots on if we have lots of stoney roadwork to do.
The weather hasn't been great for their feet recently and can really affect the condition of the hoof and tolerance to stoney ground, as can the grass.
Really depends on how much you want to keep barefoot.
 
I would seriously consider boots if I where you the horse is still growing and it would be great to keep him unshod until growth stops .
 
Im in the same boat as you with a rising 5 year old that I am planning to re-back over the next few weeks.

Her dam is BF and I am very interested and optimistic that I would like her youngster to continue without shoes............But, at this very influencial age, you want to keep them comfortable and eager little candidates who are happy to work with you.

But, on the other hand it is also a shame to nail iron onto a hoof that has been without shoes for 4/5 years! without giving them a chance to become even better, hard and fit for purpose working hooves.

OK, I may get shot for saying this, but you could always shoe at front until the horse is confident hacking out and try BF when you both feel ready.

Or, as other posters have mentioned, it could be something that a dietary tweak, management change could sort out.

It's imporant at this influencial stage in her life, however, that she continues to be a happy, eager little working horse for you.
 
cptrayes said:
Why on earth not?

I've never known a horse who would not tolerate them. I personally would not accept a horse telling me that it will not wear boots, I would continue to desensitize them until it would.


I think you also need a serious look at how much grass she gets. Good doers can often need a very restricted carbohydrate diet to go shoeless.
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Ermmmm, sorry, made that statement almost tongue in cheek....believe me, shes not aloud much of an opinion on anything, as being welsh AND a mare, give her an inch........ :rolleyes:

I will look into hoof boots as seems a viable option given I would really rather not have her shod for her as much as anything....also cheaper than long term shoeing I should imagine :D This way I'm thinking could build her feet up slowly to eventually no boots?

Grass wise, she is on the grass for an hour a day...then off....It never crossed my mind that this maybe too much for her?

Thanks for all your help and suggestions and will also look into her diet....TBH I though Happy Hoof was pretty 'safe', so thanks all for the heads up!!

Feeling more positive now....:)
 
Goldenstar said:
I thought mine would not tolerate hoof boots he's an extremely nervous self aware KWPN I got my trimmer to measure his feet and chose the best ones for him and he perfectly happy in them and he's a horse who once had a stress attack when I first tried to put a brown saddle cloth on him rather than a white one.
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Haha.....this made me chuckle.....am sure we'd get there in that case, as we've never disagreed over colour of saddle cloth :rolleyes:

Seriously though....would rather go with boots than shoes....but after reading the posts on diet here, I will be looking into that as well as.
 
Silly filly, I've got an unshod TB mare - complete stress head. I was wary of using hoof boots as I thought they were fiddly and I wondered if she would tolerate them. I can have mine feet picked out and both front boots on in about 30 seconds. She hasn't reacted once - in fact there was an almost immediate improvement. I also feed Pro Hoof which I buy from a seller called Progressive Earth on ebay. Give the hoof boots a try - make sure you measure her feet properly though as it's essential to get a good fit. My TB has round feet rather than oblong and the Cavallo Simple boots are wonderful for her, with the Easycare gaiters. We will progress to complete barefoot eventually, but I'm in no rush while she's happy in her boots - we only use them for hacking anyway. Good luck with yours.

Forgot to add - a lot of people have seen improvement when they have added magnesium oxide to the feed.
 
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jesstickle said:
I'm at exactly the same point as you and I'm going to have fronts put on mine. Hopefully this week. Don't suppose that helps at all but it's what I would do (obviously)
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Ahhh...as you're there with me, pls can I ask why you chose to go with shoes over the likes of boots/ supps etc?

Just wondering if there were specific reasons (that maybe I should consider) or was it down to just personal preference?
 
Holly Hocks said:
Silly filly, I've got an unshod TB mare - complete stress head. I was wary of using hoof boots as I thought they were fiddly and I wondered if she would tolerate them. I can have mine feet picked out and both front boots on in about 30 seconds. She hasn't reacted once - in fact there was an almost immediate improvement. I also feed Pro Hoof which I buy from a seller called Progressive Earth on ebay. Give the hoof boots a try - make sure you measure her feet properly though as it's essential to get a good fit. My TB has round feet rather than oblong and the Cavallo Simple boots are wonderful for her, with the Easycare gaiters. We will progress to complete barefoot eventually, but I'm in no rush while she's happy in her boots - we only use them for hacking anyway. Good luck with yours.

Forgot to add - a lot of people have seen improvement when they have added magnesium oxide to the feed.
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Thankyou....great post :D

Ok, so, my girl also has round feet, so your suggested boots will be top of my 'research list'. Is my farrier the best person to measure her up, or do we do that ourselves? I really didnt want to shoe and then stop as I believe it can be harder for them to adjust than if you stick to it in the first place?

Like you, if shes happy, I am. Have been considering magnesium as she spooky and edgy.....not a complete mess, but a little irrational at times....I didnt know it could help barefeet to....bonus!!

Also, thanks for the feed suggestion.....on my list!!
 
SillyFilly said:
Thankyou....great post :D

Ok, so, my girl also has round feet, so your suggested boots will be top of my 'research list'. Is my farrier the best person to measure her up, or do we do that ourselves? I really didnt want to shoe and then stop as I believe it can be harder for them to adjust than if you stick to it in the first place?

Like you, if shes happy, I am. Have been considering magnesium as she spooky and edgy.....not a complete mess, but a little irrational at times....I didnt know it could help barefeet to....bonus!!

Also, thanks for the feed suggestion.....on my list!!
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I'm not sure how the magnesium oxide works - Oberon (username on the forum) is good at explaining how it works. Something to do with lush grass often being low in magnesium. The Pro Hoof is just a supplement - I actually feed mine on Fast Fibre which is pretty low starch and sugar and just add the pro hoof to that. I also feed micronised linseed.
 
Ahhhh....ok, some reading to be done re supps then, lol. Dont know why I pressumed it was a feed!!

Will do a search on forum for magnesium if Oberon has explained before. Thank you again!!
 
If you've just restarted her in work from March, it may simply be that you have stepped p the wear and tear on her hooves a bit quicker than she has adapted. As long as its not wearing them down to sore point I would continue gently and see if growth ends up matching work.
 
Naturally said:
If you've just restarted her in work from March, it may simply be that you have stepped p the wear and tear on her hooves a bit quicker than she has adapted. As long as its not wearing them down to sore point I would continue gently and see if growth ends up matching work.
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To be honest....this is kind of what my first thought was, but then dismissed it again. Her feet didnt grow very quickly at all over winter.....I know they all slow down, but I mean really quite little growth....farrier was not concerned but did comment and said she'd probly be ready sooner next time as was start of spring....and she was. Shes not 'lame' just careful over stones and the odd eek when she treads on one, but dosent take a lame step.
Her next trim is due end of month but to be fair.....they dont look nearly ready.

They do seem a little dry though....on the out side....tiny little chip now and then. Is there any oil/dressing that is particually benefical for barefoot?

And Thankyou :)
 
SillyFilly said:
Ahhh...as you're there with me, pls can I ask why you chose to go with shoes over the likes of boots/ supps etc?

Just wondering if there were specific reasons (that maybe I should consider) or was it down to just personal preference?
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Well, she hates being stabled so can't keep her in 23 hours a day, I'm on livery so keeping her on a yard or woodchip turnout isn't an option and she is footsore.

She is already on prohoof just in case it helps but I can't restrict her grazing enough to keep her happy without shoes (for the above reasons). None of this is about to change and she is sore even walking across the yard if she finds a stone. So shoes for me. I'll probably have them off again over the winter to give her feet a break but a line has to be drawn somewhere and I think I've reached that point.

Her mental well being is important to me and there is no way to restrict her grass enough without sending her mad.
 
Putting shoes on will stop the way the horse is being tentative over the ground you describe, but it doesn't stop the underlying problem, merely masking it by reducing the feeling in the front feet. Horses that crunch down on stone with shoes on are still damaging their soles, which are thinner in shod horses, but, it doesn't become a noticeable problem until the bruising is severe enough to be felt by the horse, even though the ability to feel is reduced.

With welsh horses, you have another problem with sensitivity to the levels of sugar in the diet. It is often mentioned that the conformation of lots of welsh horses has been achieved from unwittingly selectively breeding from horses which are to some degree insulin resistant. Bareing in mind that insulin resistance and other metabolic disorders are more widely recognised and researched than they were a few years ago.

Barefoot is and always will be, finding the correct balance between diet and exercise. Sensitivity in the hoof, is the major indicator that changes in the season, level of sugar in the diet, both grazing and supplimentary feed or level of exercise need addressing. It affects all horses differently and individually. Hoof boots, never known a horse not be able to wear properly fitting ones, can help overcome some of these periods when things get out of sync.
 
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I have a little Sec D a couple of years older than yours who has never worn shoes - she has very tough feet that have got better as she has matured. This is only my opinion, but thinking about it her feet have strengthened in much the same way as the other physical structures like tendons and muscles as her workload has very gradually increased.

The things we have found very useful:
certainly investigate adding magnesium to her diet - native mares do seem to need it. There is quite a lot of anecdotal evidence on this.
have a look at boots - we found that using them one day on/one day off worked well. we very very rarely use them now.
double and treble check for any thrush or fungus in the foot - I scrub with salt water as a preventative and she is stabled for part of the time which helps her feet (amongst other things)
steady regular work - you are better doing a short session everyday than only a couple of times a week and include roads/hard tracks if possible.

Hope that helps.
Good luck whatever you decide - every horse is different and if she needs shoes to work happily then that's not the end of the world.
 
Hi, I also have a welsh sec c pony 12yrs old. He was shod before I got him at rising 7, since then he's been barefoot, it took a number of years for his feet to harden back up on roadwork and grassy bridle ways . However I've just moved him to somewere where we have stony tracks and ponio is acting just like yours, I'm just sorting out some bots for him, as both me and my farrier don't think he needs shoes. Fingers crossed, I hope it works out for you
 
jesstickle said:
Well, she hates being stabled so can't keep her in 23 hours a day, I'm on livery so keeping her on a yard or woodchip turnout isn't an option and she is footsore.

She is already on prohoof just in case it helps but I can't restrict her grazing enough to keep her happy without shoes (for the above reasons). None of this is about to change and she is sore even walking across the yard if she finds a stone. So shoes for me. I'll probably have them off again over the winter to give her feet a break but a line has to be drawn somewhere and I think I've reached that point.

Her mental well being is important to me and there is no way to restrict her grass enough without sending her mad.
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Thankyou, hope you dont mind me asking. I to feel that a line must be drawn somewhere. As I havent yet (obviously) tried some of the suggestions here, I feel I have something to experiment with first, so fingers crossed!

Good luck with your mare.x.
 
SillyFilly said:
Thankyou, hope you dont mind me asking. I to feel that a line must be drawn somewhere. As I havent yet (obviously) tried some of the suggestions here, I feel I have something to experiment with first, so fingers crossed!

Good luck with your mare.x.
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No of course I don't mind! :)

Good luck is about right. I doubt she'll behave for the farrier to put them on :eek:
 
Thankyou for all your suggestions, am glad I posted the question, as I did um and ah over whether to :o

Going to start her on Magnesium as apparently, its is quite a common deficiency in our area!

Going to look into changing the Happy Hoof for something molasses free ( I honestly feel a little duped by that one,lol).

I will be careful with her grass management, and if that means she cant have 24/7, then we'll just have to suck it up. There are 2 ponies ( 1 lammi, 1potential,so treated as such) on our yard who cant go out full time till much later in the year.....maybe this pattern would be more suited to her?

Also hoof boots......I see they are really quite smart!!

But mainly, I feel I can make a decision myself if my farrier pushes for shoes at this stage....as long as I'm not causing problems for my girl, then its worth a try....

Thanks again from both of us! :D
 
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