Does smacking horses actually work?

Snow Tiddely Pom said:
Still bored, so another point to this .....

I turned a very aggressive youngster out with a pack of older horses once (all unshod I add). He predictably started kicking at everyone and generally causing chaos. As I was about to intervene before he really hurt one, the senior of the herd arrived, walked straight up to the youngster and pushed him over with his shoulder. Youngster landed splat on the floor, picked himself up, looked very surprised and a bit shook and never caused a moments problem from then on. Needless to say the senior horse was then his hero and he followed him everywhere! That is how horses deal with discipline with each other.
A friend of mine had a horse who bit everyone. One day when he bit her she grabbed his ear and bit him back really hard! A little extreme perhaps but he never bit anyone again!
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LOL superb! I have friends who do that with their kids - ie: you kick me again I will kick you back and I am bigger than you!!
 
Depends totally on the horse, the situation etc, etc.

If something bites, kicks or goes for me, I don't say "Ouch, that hurt, never mind, I am sure you had a reason for it Pudding, just don't do it again will you?" I'd yell at them and give them a bloody good clout if they've bitten me. All my horses, by accident, or design, are very polite and haven't been beaten into being that way.

Some of my horses would have me if I laid a finger on them, some would be horrified and crumple in a heap- but then they wouldn't bite etc without very good reason, others just say "Oh, right then. OK, I'll behave, worth a try though;)"

I had a Welsh LR pony years ago, the first day I had him, I was leading him down to the field and the little git took a chunk out of my leg, intentionally. No apologies, I thumped him, hard. Cracking little man, had him for 4 years and he never, ever, even looked as if he was thinking about being nippy again. In his case it was the right thing. I couldn't have a nippy pony around children.
 
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yes and no. my horses only get a smack when they are being dangerous a or just wont listen and it has the right effect as I never hit them normally.

There is woman at my yard who shouts and smacks her 2 3 year olds all the time. One of them barged through a gate so she lead him away and i heard her screaming and shouting at him., i guess she would have smacked him too.
She always says that if he steps out of line just to smack him one.....it doesnt work.

Ignore bad behavior (with exeption) and praise good behavior i have found that this always works for me :)
 
Ethel has had a fair few smacks in the 9-10 months I've had her, but all for different reasons. She gave me a nip one day, got a smack on the nose and hasn't done it again. Was eating her dinner one afternoon and I needed her to move over and she cow kicked and got me in the leg, got a whack on the bum and was so shocked she actually stopped eating and got the hump a bit, but she hasn't kicked me again. Another time my friend was holding her while I tried a saddle on her and while I did her girth up she tried to bite my friend, luckily only got her coat but if had got her it would have hurt so she got a sharp slap on the shoulder. So with Ethel, giving her a smack does work, she might get the hump about being smacked, but she doesn't fight back and behaves.
 
I agree with anyone who's said it depends on the horse. I know some (one of which is a dumb blood surprise surprise :rolleyes: ) who are arrogant and can be bargy, and if you give them an inch they take a mile so do get a slap sometimes. Then we have others from unknown backgrounds who crap themselves if you look at them the wrong way, but do get more confident with consistent handling.

They all behave the same round each other as well, the bargy rude ones get battered in the field when they try it with the older "well 'ard" crew (who are super polite in the stable) and the flighty ones will try it on in the field but the boss and his posse just flatten their ears and they behave.

I'm glad this has turned into a good discussion btw, I thought it would digress into a bit of a scrap :)
 
tonitot said:
Ethel has had a fair few smacks in the 9-10 months I've had her, but all for different reasons. She gave me a nip one day, got a smack on the nose and hasn't done it again. Was eating her dinner one afternoon and I needed her to move over and she cow kicked and got me in the leg, got a whack on the bum and was so shocked she actually stopped eating and got the hump a bit, but she hasn't kicked me again. Another time my friend was holding her while I tried a saddle on her and while I did her girth up she tried to bite my friend, luckily only got her coat but if had got her it would have hurt so she got a sharp slap on the shoulder. So with Ethel, giving her a smack does work, she might get the hump about being smacked, but she doesn't fight back and behaves.
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Irrelavant to the thread - but loving the pics in your signature!! Now there is a horse having fun!!
 
Interestingly, many of the posts refer to smacking when horses bite or kick. I guess this is meeting 'pain with pain' so to speak hence it is generally effective. From watching horses in a herd when one bites or kicks another for whatever reason they will often get the same back and probably learn not do it, so presumably when their 'owner' smacks as a result of being kicked or bitten they apply the same understanding.
 
My last mare would get a smack if she tried to nip at me (very very rare) however she did nap, badly, and spin, and rear, smacking and telling her off made her worse, HOWEVER if i started the whole "come on, see how brave you can be, arent you clever, oh well done" she'd stop playing up straight away, and do exactly as i asked, im my opinion, less stressful that battling through it!
 
I personally don't think that smacking horses works, no. The one exception to this would be if I needed to smack a horse to make them move out of the way of a speeding car, to stop them ploughing over me or anyone else or any other potentially life threatening situation then I would.

But day to day no. I believe there is normally a better way of dealing with things without involving any kind of physical violence.
 
ISHmad said:
I personally don't think that smacking horses works, no. The one exception to this would be if I needed to smack a horse to make them move out of the way of a speeding car, to stop them ploughing over me or anyone else or any other potentially life threatening situation then I would.

But day to day no. I believe there is normally a better way of dealing with things without involving any kind of physical violence.
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Surely if anyone had to smack any horse day to day, then something somewhere has gone wrong. A horse should NEVER be smacked out of frustration/anger.

Not saying your right or wrong but how would you then deal with a horse that bites?

Mine do get a smack if they step out of line. I make sure they know what's expected of them and if they ignore this, then they face the consquences. Again, this depends on what's happened. If the horse has decided to barge, then a smack. However, if the horse ran past me out of fear, then confidence is what's required.

It all depends on the horse and the situation.
 
mishaspey said:
Surely if anyone had to smack any horse day to day, then something somewhere has gone wrong. A horse should NEVER be smacked out of frustration/anger.

Not saying your right or wrong but how would you then deal with a horse that bites?

Mine do get a smack if they step out of line. I make sure they know what's expected of them and if they ignore this, then they face the consquences. Again, this depends on what's happened. If the horse has decided to barge, then a smack. However, if the horse ran past me out of fear, then confidence is what's required.

It all depends on the horse and the situation.
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I think what ISHMad was meaning was that in a situation where either circumstances or simply a horse being silly was to put itself or anyone else in danger then a sharp smack may be the fastest and most effective response. I don't think she meant that it would be smacked in anger.

Not having a go at you Mishaspey btw, just trying to ensure this thread stays interesting and doesn't go the way of some other threads!
 
mishaspey said:
Not saying your right or wrong but how would you then deal with a horse that bites?
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When our youngster tries to bite we give one shake on a plastic bottle with some gravel in. The noise is enough to distract him from what he's doing. Not sure if it would work on older, established biters though :)

I will hit a horse if I am about to be flattened, but hopefully with good groundwork it shouldn't get that far.
 
I find it depends on the horses nature and the situation. For example I never smacked my previous horse who was very stressy tb type as it would simply have sent her over the edge.

My young gelding has a totally different nature and if he is being nappy then he gets a smack and it has worked. It depends on the horses frame of mind at the time, there have been occasions where he is in a complete strop and smacking would hype it up more so I generally do a little tap as a deterrent rather than full on wallops.

Horses for courses I guess.
 
Having worked with a few horses that were genuinely vicious, smacking them is the last thing I would do. Be quiet around them, tie them up tight, take great care when you move around them and don't take risks. Being calm, quiet and confident in these cases is definitely the way to go!

Nothing against the odd ticking off - I have no qulams about being firm if needed. Having seen what matriarchs and broodmares can do to fellow herd members and youngsters in the name of discipline, I very much doubt that anything I could inflict whilst in a sane mind could do much harm!
 
I never smack for nips as often this is friendly play behaviour. I just push away repeatedly until they get the message. A full blown bite is another matter. If a horse launches at me I try to meet their nose with my elbow so that they hurt themselves and view their own action as to blame. But if a horse really bit me hard and I hadn't managed to block then yes I would immediately smack, and yes, I have found it to work.
 
Tickles said:
I think it depends on the horse. I've certainly seen it generate more confrontation than there was before the smack and when it does work I hate to see it do so through fear (espec. in horses that have been abused in the past, can totally shut them down so they 'withdraw' from interaction.)
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I agree. I think its really rare for a horse to misbehave in the sense that they are out to simply be plain naughty to irritate us humans. If people think that then I personally think they show a total lack of understanding of what horses are. I've seen people smack their horses for spooking at something, sorry but a horse is a flight animal - its built into them to be wary of their surroundings! I find it totally unecessary that people hit their horses in order to make them jump. Horses should never learn to refuse in the first place but this doesn't involve beating them up! So many riders smack their horses for refusing a jump when it is so clearly the riders fault. Its horrible, you can see the horses who are jumping "because they have to" rather than because they enjoy it.

I don't think I'm a perfect rider by any means - I mess up all the time but my horse (and all my past horses) tend to trust me enough to sort the mess out for me, they do it because they want to, I've never ever beaten them up or forced them to jump. I've never needed to as they have always remained willing. Don't get me wrong, if a horse is dangerous on the ground like actually agressive then I'll do something about it - I had one horse who arrived to me as a very bolshy, nasty 3yo. He tried kicking me several times so he got kicked back. He bit me, I pinched him (replicating a bite) back! But jeez, if I had raised a stick to that horse I gurantee I would not be here today!

The ones who end up with 'naughtiness' problems I believe have far deeper issues which the rider (or some human) has caused somewhere along the line.
 
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However, I have not found that smacking when riding works at all. Yes, a tickle with the schooling whip to back up your leg can be good, but not smacking to chastise the horse. Ten years ago I was more of a traditionalist and surrounded by old fashioned hunting people (not saying all hunting people are old fashioned, lol). When I first got my mare she was very nappy to hack and people advised me to 'give her a pasting'. I felt uncomfortable with this but these were very successful horse people competing at high levels and I respected their views at the time. I did not give her a pasting, but did use the whip to try to make her go forward. No, it didn't work! Of course it didn't. I was just making the situation worse. I moved yards and set up my own horsey business retraining ex racers for clients. I found out what worked for my mare. It was getting off and leading her and letting her have the time to get to know me and trust me. Within weeks of moving I was hacking alone no problem and going past all kinds of scary things without so much as a flicker. She is the best horse I've had.
 
I completely agree with what some of the others have said, totally depends on the horse and the circumstance.
But I always bear in mind that a horse is a whole lot bigger and more powerful than me and any undesirable behaviour must be nipped in the bud before it can escalate.
When I first bought my mare, she was a little wild to say the least in her personality but clearly had been handled a fair bit. She was 3 and had just been imported from germany. I had her 2 stage vetted and when the vet tried to do the hind flexions she kicked him HARD in his privates and apparently it took him 15 mins to be able to stand up again...

I tried to be as firm, fair and consistent as I could be with her but it has taken a long time to instill the lovely manners she has now! And yes, there have had to be a few smacks along the way.
A few people including her vet, saddler and back man have commented on how much better she is now compared to when I bought her and my vet has often said that she has the potential to be a very difficult and dangerous horse to handle. And at times she has been! I think without my firmness and absolute clarity that her behaviour was unacceptable either by raised voice or a smack she would be a very different horse now.
I rarely have to tell her off on the ground now and when I do, a raised voice is normally all I need.
 
Snow Tiddely Pom said:
In what way? I'm not suggesting it is either right or wrong, simply interested to know how other people find their horses react.
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My TB gets in an ultra stress if you smack him. I do however still carry a whip as when he has a proper paddy he pays no attention to anything (almost like a panic attack) and will back into traffic, ditches etc (this does not happen frequently but when it does you know about it!). A sharp smack will move him forwards enough to get us both out of danger.
 
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