Does this happen, surely not, Police Chief's turning a blind eye to illegal for hunting?

Judgemental

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 June 2010
Messages
1,603
Location
The Internet makes one's location irrelevant
Visit site

Police chiefs routinely turn blind eye to illegal fox-hunting as hunts go unchecked, report claims






BB19fHBf.img

© Provided by The Independent
Police forces around England regularly ignore reports of illegal fox-hunting and fail to bring charges even when they are handed overwhelming evidence, a hard-hitting report claims.
Some chief constables and senior officers routinely turn a blind eye to fox hunts, while certain police on the ground often appear biased towards hunts or show no interest in accusations that the law has been broken, according to the document.
Anti-blood sport campaigners have complained for years that police repeatedly dismiss reports of illegal activity, fail to follow up complaints and are slow to attend when called out to wildlife crime – if they attend at all.
Now, what is believed to be the first ever report on enforcement of the 2004 fox-hunting ban alleges widespread failures by authorities to take action, even when people monitoring hunt activities provided video evidence that they say shows trained hounds chasing the wild animals.
The investigators, from the Action Against Foxhunting (AAF) group, compiled police responses to more than 80 incidents reported during the 2019-20 winter hunting season.
Their report, Counting the Crimes, seen exclusively by The Independent, says many officers appear to have very little understanding of the hunting ban, and a lack of training means many cannot recognise illegal hunting.
However, a number of police officers appear to support hunts, and some – even including the occasional wildlife crime officer – ride with them, it is claimed.
The 2004 Hunting Act made it illegal to chase wild mammals with dogs in England and Wales, but hunts insist they act within the law, following artificially laid scent trails.
In an introduction to the report, Richard Barradale Smith, a retired officer who was at the centre of a high-profile investigation in Herefordshire last year, condemns “the catastrophic failure of the police and the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in dealing with hunting and hunting-related crimes that take place every week across our country”.
He writes: “The systemic failure in dealing with hunting crimes since the hunting act came into force has been deliberate.
“The legislation introduced was designed to make the act virtually unenforceable, and successive chief constables/senior officers across the country have chosen to turn a blind eye to it ever since. This places many frontline officers sent to deal with those incidents in an impossible position.
“The claims of any force that they take animal cruelty seriously have to be questioned when illegal hunting takes place under their noses and with their knowledge, every week.”
Relations between police and hunt monitors or saboteurs are strained in many areas, with hunt opponents claiming they are often treated as the criminals because they are watching or videoing events.
Dozens of cases documented in the report include fox killings; roads being blocked by hunts; hounds running into private gardens and frightening kept animals; hunters reportedly trying to intimidate “wildlife guardians” and hunt supporters playing loud music and obstructing filming of suspected illegal activity.
In the 81 cases recorded by the group, nobody was prosecuted, and calls to police from the public with complaints about hunts went unreturned.
In October, a pack of hounds invaded a smallholding, running through groups of goats, sheep and pigs, scattering them, trampling on vegetables and breaking fences. Surrey Police took more than an hour to respond to the 999 call, and took a statement but allegedly did not want to see the damage. “There was no follow-up action against the hunt. The owners of the smallholding concluded the police were not interested”, the document states.
Another example given is: “At the Boxing Day protest in Blandford, a hunter crossed the road to push an elderly protester into the gutter. When she got up, she asked the police officer if he could take action. He told her to stand aside. Later, the lady saw a police officer shaking hands with the person who had pushed her over.
“She reported the incident to the police and gave a statement. She had a witness and photographs of the assailant. The police dropped the case saying that they could not identify the assailant. By not taking action, and failing to help the victim, the police prevented this criminal from being prosecuted. AAF believes this was deliberate.”
During the year, several incidents were reported of hunters calling the police, falsely claiming they had seen “frontline wildlife guardians” (FWGs) with handguns.
Police searched the monitors but found no guns. “AAF understands that police must act if they receive calls of this nature. However, the police’s prompt attendance for these calls is not matched by prompt attendance for a call from an FWG. This happens whatever the call is – about illegal hunting or intimidation and violence,” the document states.
Among other proposals, AAF is calling for all police officers to be open about any personal interest in hunting and that those who back it to be barred from investigating hunt incidents.
Mr Barradale Smith, who said he was the victim of a smear campaign for investigating cruelty claims, adds: “Please do not for one minute attribute those failures to lack of resources/funding/training or any other excuse that a police force may attempt to use. It simply isn’t true.”
In 2018 the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) with the College of Policing issued revised guidelines on hunting to police forces in Britain but Action Against Foxhunting says many officers appear unaware of them.

The Independent also asked the National Police Chiefs’ Council to comment but it did not respond by the time of publication.
Edited to comply with H and H's 1000 character limit
 

emilylou

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 February 2011
Messages
514
Visit site
I think its probably a combination of under staffing and lots of false witnesses from the anti's side. There is lots of fabricated evidence from the anti's side presented to the police (edited footage, false allegations etc.) that I imagine its difficult to determine when a situation is genuine and does requires police attention, thus more often than not no action is taken as it is considered a civil dispute.

It's not just hunting related issues that receive a slower than desired response from the police, all calls are prioritized and not all are classed as urgent. e.g. a theft would not receive an urgent response. Obviously someone carrying firearms is going to receive a quicker response than a call about someone (the hunt) trespassing, just as the police would attend quickly if they were told members of the hunt were carrying firearms in a threatening manner.

Of course the hunt is going temporarily to block a road if passing through or crossing, and attempt to obstruct non-consented filming from anti's, just as any person would protest to being filmed by a stranger or a cycle race provides a temporary road obstruction to other users. While inconvenient to others, these actions are not crimes.

I'm not excusing any of the genuine crimes committed or poor behavior demonstrated by the hunting community, because, yes, poor behavior is shown from both sides and both sides should act better. But this article is written to anger and divide, as most articles published in newspapers about hunting are designed to do.
Most of the time when police attend a hunt their main job is keeping the peace and listening to enraged anti's who would like the hunt to be stopped whether the activity is legal or not, and quite often, the police do have more pressing things to do.
 

meleeka

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 September 2001
Messages
10,471
Location
Hants, England
Visit site
In my experience the police turn a blind eye to most things these days, so hardly surprising. A friends husband was beaten unconscious and was told by a police officer that they don’t actually investigate crime anymore, unless it serious. If the evidence is clear they’ll prosecute, but they won’t go looking for it.
 

Henry02

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 September 2011
Messages
458
Visit site
I wouldn’t trust any kind of story such as this one that comes out of a newspaper.

comments such as “some police officers even ride out with hunts” show what point they are trying to make...

Police officers and other member of the public are able to take part in the legal pastimes of their choice
 

Tiddlypom

Carries on creakily
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
22,230
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
Visit site
Police officers and other member of the public are able to take part in the legal pastimes of their choice
Indeed they are :D.

Two packs out of three that hunt regularly in Cheshire have bowed in to the inevitable after being closely monitored and sabbed (by different groups). They had previously insisted that they were trail hunting (they weren't).

Last season was a refreshing change for us locals after they went legit. I think the record beforehand was 9 police cars and a police helicopter out at once, and that was near me the season before last.

The third pack seems to be hanging on to the old ways for as long as it can. I’m glad that I don’t live in their country, it is not great for residents to be caught up in it. However, I think that further Covid restrictions will soon stop any further hunting this season.
 

dotty1

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 March 2005
Messages
1,501
Location
Glos
Visit site
Certainly happens in my area......roads constantly blocked, blatantly chasing foxes complete with video evidence, rampaging through private land and gardens. The police have attended many times but nothing ever comes of it.
Whilst we all have to stick to the rule of 6.... there were approximately 100 mounted followers out on Saturday.....and many foot and car followers.....with this virus picking up again, it can't go on much longer
 

Tiddlypom

Carries on creakily
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
22,230
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
Visit site
Whilst we all have to stick to the rule of 6.... there were approximately 100 mounted followers out on Saturday.....and many foot and car followers.....with this virus picking up again, it can't go on much longer
I have asked my local pack to send me a link to their Covid protocols. They are going to send it to me, apparently.

Every pack should have one, so making it available to interested parties shouldn’t be an issue.
 

Pinkvboots

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 August 2010
Messages
21,358
Location
Hertfordshire
Visit site
Certainly happens in my area......roads constantly blocked, blatantly chasing foxes complete with video evidence, rampaging through private land and gardens. The police have attended many times but nothing ever comes of it.
Whilst we all have to stick to the rule of 6.... there were approximately 100 mounted followers out on Saturday.....and many foot and car followers.....with this virus picking up again, it can't go on much longer

Yes but it will because there is no one to stop it, there are and always will be people not sticking to the rule of 6, it's a ridiculous rule anyway and almost impossible to enforce.
 

Tiddlypom

Carries on creakily
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
22,230
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
Visit site
Do you hunt? Or just asking for it anyway?
Used to, regularly, but all pre ban.

They fetch up right outside my house and land several times a season. We get the hunt proper + an often large travelling circus of car and foot followers etc, so indeed I am curious and somewhat wary as to how they will be managing things. The usual field would be considerably >30.

Hopefully the promised link to their risk assessed Covid protocols will be reassuring :).
 
Last edited:

Shay

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2008
Messages
7,345
Visit site
The template is available through the hunting office and the coutryside alliance. Packs vary of course but for us each risk assessment is unique to the day. Copies are held centrally and hard copies carried by the feild master, the mounted covid marshall and the unmounted covid marshall available for presentation to the police and / or HSE. Or anyone else who reasonably asks!

Tbh I suspect lawful hunting is going to be one of the safer and most checked activities. Far better than going to a city centre bar in the evening!
 

Tiddlypom

Carries on creakily
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
22,230
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
Visit site
From the Hunting Office website. Each day does indeed require its own Event Delivery Plan, and it would be much safer to publish that on line rather than to expect interested parties to be handed a hard copy to be studied on the day. Though a hard copy should still be carried as back up.

So any pack that is taking the guidelines seriously will have no issues in reassuring the local community that they are adhering to those guidelines by publishing them for anyone to view :).

https://thehuntingoffice.org.uk/36-...nd-update.html?highlight=WyJjb3JvbmF2aXJ1cyJd


We can therefore confirm that Autumn Hunting activities can continue as per the guidelines issued by the Hunting Office on 24th August with some slight changes. The main change is that any pack wishing to organise Hunting activities for more than 6 mounted followers and / or a group of more than 6 foot followers, must do so in accordance with the Covid-19 Secure Guidelines, a Covid-19 Risk Assessment must be done and an Event Delivery Plan should be completed for every days Hunting.

Organisers should be very clear about the expectations of attendees at hunt activities. The Hunt must show respect and sensitivity towards the local community and ensure that every practicable protocol is followed to avoid the possible transmission of Covid-19.

Hunts must assert the necessary authority to ensure that all those in attendance respect and adhere to the regulations and guidelines. There must be very clear instructions for all those in attendance to follow, this should be done by way of clear signage at the premises as well as clear instructions and procedures communicated beforehand.
 

Michen

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 January 2014
Messages
10,910
Visit site
From the Hunting Office website. Each day does indeed require its own Event Delivery Plan, and it would be much safer to publish that on line rather than to expect interested parties to be handed a hard copy to be studied on the day. Though a hard copy should still be carried as back up.

So any pack that is taking the guidelines seriously will have no issues in reassuring the local community that they are adhering to those guidelines by publishing them for anyone to view :).

https://thehuntingoffice.org.uk/36-...nd-update.html?highlight=WyJjb3JvbmF2aXJ1cyJd


We can therefore confirm that Autumn Hunting activities can continue as per the guidelines issued by the Hunting Office on 24th August with some slight changes. The main change is that any pack wishing to organise Hunting activities for more than 6 mounted followers and / or a group of more than 6 foot followers, must do so in accordance with the Covid-19 Secure Guidelines, a Covid-19 Risk Assessment must be done and an Event Delivery Plan should be completed for every days Hunting.

Organisers should be very clear about the expectations of attendees at hunt activities. The Hunt must show respect and sensitivity towards the local community and ensure that every practicable protocol is followed to avoid the possible transmission of Covid-19.

Hunts must assert the necessary authority to ensure that all those in attendance respect and adhere to the regulations and guidelines. There must be very clear instructions for all those in attendance to follow, this should be done by way of clear signage at the premises as well as clear instructions and procedures communicated beforehand.

Tbh it sounds like your interest is more in catching hunts out or doing something wrong. I’m not sure why this is such an interest if you used to hunt.
 

Michen

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 January 2014
Messages
10,910
Visit site
Why so defensive? If they are not doing anything wrong and are following guidelines, then there‘s no problem surely?

I don't want to ‘catch them out’, I just want them to stick to the guidelines.

I’m not defensive at all. I’m just curious to know why you have such a vested interest in making sure they stick to guidelines (and as far as I know my local packs are). Does the same interest apply to shooting for example?
 

Dobiegirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 February 2011
Messages
6,900
Location
Wildest Somerset
Visit site
Of course illegal hunting is going on, around here our local hunt is notorious for it, they have been through our land, through my friends woods so obviously not following a trail, all the while being followed by terrier men. Badgers and fox dens have been blocked and no one bothers to go around unblocking them except for local farmers and sabs. Drones are now widely used so not difficult to get video evidence anymore and its all passed on to the police who dont take it any further. At one time there was a woman who was a police officer who used to hunt, whether she still does or not I dont know.

Whether you support hunting or not the fact is its illegal, by taking part you are breaking the law.
 

palo1

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 July 2012
Messages
6,251
Visit site
Of course illegal hunting is going on, around here our local hunt is notorious for it, they have been through our land, through my friends woods so obviously not following a trail, all the while being followed by terrier men. Badgers and fox dens have been blocked and no one bothers to go around unblocking them except for local farmers and sabs. Drones are now widely used so not difficult to get video evidence anymore and its all passed on to the police who dont take it any further. At one time there was a woman who was a police officer who used to hunt, whether she still does or not I dont know.

Whether you support hunting or not the fact is its illegal, by taking part you are breaking the law.

I am sorry to say this but you are wrong about participating in illegal hunting meaning that you are breaking the law. The law is quite clear that the person hunting the hounds and any formal and identified staff with him are responsible in that situation. The field may be entirely in the wrong morally if they are participating knowingly in illegal hunting but they are not responsible for it so are not breaking the law. I don't believe that there is any law that relates to that particular situation though potentially being complicit in animal cruelty may have some legal relevance.
 

GSD Woman

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 December 2018
Messages
1,484
Visit site
Blocking dens makes my blood boil. And why would anyone hunt English badgers? Someone should install North American badgers around those hunts. Our badgers will Ef you up.
Several of my friends hunt, I never had the chance, and they say that a kill is unusual. Also, our huntsmen have been known to set out food for foxes on very hard winters.
 

Orangehorse

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 November 2005
Messages
13,200
Visit site
Badgers are not hunted. They are protected, so it is an offence to kill them, without a licence.Badgers are, however, believed to be involved with the transfer of Bovine TB to cattle, and there are programmes where badgers are trapped and shot to remove the infection route.

TB is a serious disease and costs the country many £million for animal and human health and results in the early death of many cattle in the prime of life.

I saw the most beautiful fox yesterday - he was a lovely dark red colour and his coat was shining in the autumn sunshine. He was picking his way in a leisurely fashion through a small area of woodland (probably been looking at the Duck Supper for tonight) when he suddenly saw me on my horse. He stopped, had a good look and ran off.
 

Tiddlypom

Carries on creakily
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
22,230
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
Visit site
Badgers are simultaneously a protected species and also, in these parts, are actively being culled by licensed individuals as part of the control of the spread of Bovine TB. There are understandably high feelings running about this among people who are used to protecting badgers.

Sixty per cent of the badgers culled in England last autumn were killed by controlled shooting, a method deemed ‘inhumane’ by the BVA.

Figures released by Defra in December showed that 19,274 badgers were culled between 6 September and 28 October 2017, with 11,638 (60.4 per cent) of these being culled by controlled shooting and 7636 (39.6 per cent) by cage trapping and shooting.
 

GSD Woman

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 December 2018
Messages
1,484
Visit site
I know I'm getting off topic but is there proof of badgers spreading TB? In the US certain states are certified to be TB free in regards to cattle. It is a big tracking job for the state veterinary office.
 

palo1

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 July 2012
Messages
6,251
Visit site
I know I'm getting off topic but is there proof of badgers spreading TB? In the US certain states are certified to be TB free in regards to cattle. It is a big tracking job for the state veterinary office.

Well it is a bit contentious but yes, there is considerable evidence of badgers spreading TB (or at least being effective carriers of disease). However so are deer and other cattle and possibly other species. I have always wondered why we are not looking at things from the other end; why does a very well adapted native animal like the badger have a disease of 'poverty' (ie poor conditions, poor health) when we don't directly engage with them? I fear that the potential issues of considering environmental problems as the prime cause of TB in any species would be too difficult for any government or organisation to accept and take on board though that is just my opinion of course. Sorry if this is a bit off topic!
 

ester

Not slacking multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
60,197
Location
Cambridge
Visit site
They are different bacteria palo (M. bovis, v. M. tubercolosis)

It is noticeable how many fewer badgers I see here than the south west, even just counting the dead on the road ones. 15 years ago colleagues were experimentally vaccinating badgers but the biggest issue seemed to be people letting them out of the traps before bloods could be taken.
 
Top