Does this sound like a saddle issue?

[EchoInterrupted]

I've been sharing a super lovely horse for the past 3 months. He belongs to a riding school, but is a proper horse (17+hh ex eventer) who can't be sold for a variety of reasons so he is on part loan to me and to one other person and is not in regular use with the RS. Since my first ride on him, I've kept feeling like my left stirrup was longer, even when it from the ground looked a bit shorter. When riding my left leg tends to slip forward into a chair seat, while my right doesn't (some of you may have seen my post on here about it). More recently I've been reading more of Mary Wanless's work and have been thinking a lot about my seat bone orientation, seat bone pressure, etc. Upon paying closer attention to this I realized that what I kept interpreting as a longer stirrup may actually be something else - my left seat bone constantly feels like it's slipping away and that there's more pressure in my right seat bone. Even when I try to "reset" where my seat is, it returns to this feeling shortly afterwards. The horse does have a stronger/weaker side and a side he is more supple on (but does go very nicely in both directions and has been looked at by a vet, etc), maybe this is contributing to the feeling?

I've got a lesson with my instructor tomorrow and have mentioned this to her, so she is going to help me see if I'm sitting unevenly, etc and if that may be causing it.

I've never met the other loaner, but I assume she hasn't mentioned anything about this. She's been riding him longer than I have, surely if it was a saddle issue she would've noticed? I don't ride any other horses and don't have access to other saddles, so it's hard for me to know if I have this issue in other saddles. I loaned another horse briefly back in October and while that horse's saddle didn't fit me at all, I don't remember feeling like this. However, that was after my being out of the saddle for about 8 years, so who knows if I was paying attention enough to notice.

A couple questions:

1 - Does this sound like an obvious flocking issue to you?
2 - If so, would I be crossing a line to ask if I could have a saddle fitter out to look at it and potentially adjust (presumably I would pay)?
3 - If I were to do that, what price range would I be looking at? I know call outs/checks are in the £30 - 40 range, but what about the actual work of fixing it?
4 - I unfortunately am moving in the fall so will only be riding the horse another 5 months or so (but ride about a lot each week) - is it worth it to try to look into this further or should I just leave it be? (note that I am pretty tight on cash so I guess the question is if I keep riding like this for 5 more months and it IS a saddle issue, will this cause me to have issues in the next, balanced saddle I ride in)
5 - What type of professional could I go to for my own asymmetries to be "checked" so to say?

 

[Wheels]

Could be a saddle issue for either you or the horse but just as likely for the horse to be off / lame / uncomfortable somewhere or very asymmetrical but that would lead back to possibly being off / lame / uncomfortable

I would discuss with the owner, a horse of this age and experience it's not unusual for there to be issues but the right care, tack and riding can still lead to a useful life.

If the owner is open then I would suggest vet first then bodyworker (physio or similar) and then soon after saddle fitter

 

[EchoInterrupted]

Could be a saddle issue for either you or the horse but just as likely for the horse to be off / lame / uncomfortable somewhere or very asymmetrical but that would lead back to possibly being off / lame / uncomfortable

I would discuss with the owner, a horse of this age and experience it's not unusual for there to be issues but the right care, tack and riding can still lead to a useful life.

If the owner is open then I would suggest vet first then bodyworker (physio or similar) and then soon after saddle fitter

I asked the owner/RS about this earlier on and he's been fully checked out

 

[Wheels]

I asked the owner/RS about this earlier on and he's been fully checked out

Hmmm

When and what checks? What constitutes being fully checked out? Does this mean he was trotted up and nothing obvious was found or did he have a full work up, bone scans and MRI?

Or anything in between?

Anyway, you can try the saddle fitting route first if that is open to you, it might sort the problem, it might not or it might fix it for a while so worth a try but if he were my horse I would be investigating, sorry i appreciate he isn't yours so anything to make him more comfortable that you are able to do will be helpful for him

 

[SEL]

I have a horse with a long term problem on her left hind - she's a quiet hack only these days.

When that left hind is sore she doesn't look lame, but I find the saddle feels like it is slipping to the right. My left stirrup will feel too short as a result. Its not the saddle and its not me - its her compensating action pushing us over. If I ride the day after her physio appointment everything is perfectly straight.

Hard when it isn't your horse because most of them have niggling issues and a horse at a riding school will be ridden inconsistently. Your instructor may be able to see something from the ground and should certainly be able to do basic saddle checks for you. You might be able to organise a physio appointment if the RS aren't keen on a vet visit - won't cure a lameness issue but if its muscle tightness then may help

 

[EchoInterrupted]

Hmmm

When and what checks? What constitutes being fully checked out? Does this mean he was trotted up and nothing obvious was found or did he have a full work up, bone scans and MRI?

Or anything in between?

Anyway, you can try the saddle fitting route first if that is open to you, it might sort the problem, it might not or it might fix it for a while so worth a try but if he were my horse I would be investigating, sorry i appreciate he isn't yours so anything to make him more comfortable that you are able to do will be helpful for him

I'm honestly not sure on details, timeline, etc since he's not my horse, but did ask about it and they said he'd been looked at. Realistically with it being a RS, they probably aren't able to do for each horse what a private owner would, but do their due diligence. He doesn't seem lame, at least not in the obvious sense, and is always very happy working. He goes very well in both directions, I just meant that you can tell he has one side that is more supple than the other side (doesn't every horse have a preferred side though?) and one side that has a nicer canter than the other.

 

[SEL]

I'm honestly not sure on details, timeline, etc since he's not my horse, but did ask about it and they said he'd been looked at. Realistically with it being a RS, they probably aren't able to do for each horse what a private owner would, but do their due diligence. He doesn't seem lame, at least not in the obvious sense, and is always very happy working. He goes very well in both directions, I just meant that you can tell he has one side that is more supple than the other side (doesn't every horse have a preferred side though?) and one side that has a nicer canter than the other.

When you've got your instructor out take the saddle off the horse and have a good look over it. Make sure the flocking is even, it isn't obviously twisted and the basic 'does it fit the horse' checks are done. Then pop you up and get the instructor to run their eye over it again. Do some walk, trot, canter work and re-check.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Before you do anything right now, I would strongly suggest YOU get YOURSELF checked over by someone like a physio or a chiropractor - as it might very well be the case that you the rider are assymetric! This can happen for a variety of reasons such as having one leg shorter than the other, or pelvic misalignment, or spinal processes such as scoliosis or kyphosis. It is not uncommon! In fact, to be perfectly symmetric is the exception rather than the rule!

I always used to struggle with getting a canter lead on one leg only, and didn't realise until I had a medical for something much later in life, that I do actually have one leg a little shorter than the other!! Which always explained why my trousers always seemed a little shorter one side, and why skirts always never looked quite right!

Horse AND rider should be checked over by a professional regularly; if the horse needs physio then so does the rider, and vice versa. People just don't realise this, that if one needs doing then so does the other. I have a McTimoney practitioner who does myself and the horses. Essential IMO.

 

[EchoInterrupted]

Before you do anything right now, I would strongly suggest YOU get YOURSELF checked over by someone like a physio or a chiropractor - as it might very well be the case that you the rider are assymetric! This can happen for a variety of reasons such as having one leg shorter than the other, or pelvic misalignment, or spinal processes such as scoliosis or kyphosis. It is not uncommon! In fact, to be perfectly symmetric is the exception rather than the rule!

I always used to struggle with getting a canter lead on one leg only, and didn't realise until I had a medical for something much later in life, that I do actually have one leg a little shorter than the other!! Which always explained why my trousers always seemed a little shorter one side, and why skirts always never looked quite right!

Horse AND rider should be checked over by a professional regularly; if the horse needs physio then so does the rider, and vice versa. People just don't realise this, that if one needs doing then so does the other. I have a McTimoney practitioner who does myself and the horses. Essential IMO.

This was definitely on my mind! (hence my question 5 ). Good to know it's a chiropractor or physio I should be looking for as I really had no idea - I will take a look around and see who I find! I definitely have positional habits in how I sit in my office chair etc (one leg tucked under the other, but always the same direction) and am worried these are contributing. I've been trying to be more even about it and stretching more, will be very interested to see what a chiropractor/physio says! Would you suggest telling them before the session what I'm feeling in the saddle, or waiting until towards the end of the session to see what they come up with on their own? Would be a bit concerned about "priming" them into saying something about my hip alignment/left leg just because I mentioned it at the start.

 

[sbloom]

If the stirrup doesn't look longer from the ground, and the saddle is straight, then this specific problem is unlikely to be saddle related, though no guarantee that the saddle fits of course.

Get thee to an osteopath, a good one, or similar, and consider, if you're able, finding a biomechanics specialist. Don't set them up to almost fail, go to someone highly recommended that you can trust, and tell them the issues you're having. If you can find someone that works with a lot of horse riders, all the better, if they don't it can be hard for them to understand how it affects you in the saddle.

If the saddle doesn't suit you, say you have really wide seat bones on a narrow saddle (and don't judge how wide your seatbones are from the width of your hips, unrelated, I have started to do rider assessments looking at pelvic shape) then it's almost inevitable that one will somewhat hang off, you'll drift to one side and that stirrup will feel short, leaving you slightly reaching for the other one. A good trainer should be spotting this asymmetry in you, it should be visible.

You being asymmetric will be affecting the horse, you can pay (less) now and get you, the horse AND the saddle checked (the ideal) or you can leave it and potentially make the horse very sore, and you with similar issue and/or ingrained habit. Of course if you've gone someone else may have to pay for any harm done to the horse, but horses aren't cheap to keep, they deserve regular maintenance, so please try and prioritise this.

 

[EchoInterrupted]

If the stirrup doesn't look longer from the ground, and the saddle is straight, then this specific problem is unlikely to be saddle related, though no guarantee that the saddle fits of course.

Get thee to an osteopath, a good one, or similar, and consider, if you're able, finding a biomechanics specialist. Don't set them up to almost fail, go to someone highly recommended that you can trust, and tell them the issues you're having. If you can find someone that works with a lot of horse riders, all the better, if they don't it can be hard for them to understand how it affects you in the saddle.

If the saddle doesn't suit you, say you have really wide seat bones on a narrow saddle (and don't judge how wide your seatbones are from the width of your hips, unrelated, I have started to do rider assessments looking at pelvic shape) then it's almost inevitable that one will somewhat hang off, you'll drift to one side and that stirrup will feel short, leaving you slightly reaching for the other one. A good trainer should be spotting this asymmetry in you, it should be visible.

You being asymmetric will be affecting the horse, you can pay (less) now and get you, the horse AND the saddle checked (the ideal) or you can leave it and potentially make the horse very sore, and you with similar issue and/or ingrained habit. Of course if you've gone someone else may have to pay for any harm done to the horse, but horses aren't cheap to keep, they deserve regular maintenance, so please try and prioritise this.

This is all very good advice, thank you. My instructor is also the one who manages his care, so hopefully me going to an osteopath/chiropractor/physio combined with her having a look at me in the saddle and her knowing the horse inside and out will point us in the right direction. She hasn't noticed asymmetry in my seat in the past lessons (but I haven't had very many with her), which makes me wonder if I'm imagining things or if it just looks much more subtle than it feels. Really valuable to know that as long as the saddle is straight this is unlikely to be saddle related (except maybe that the saddle doesn't fit me). When I posted videos on a friendly dressage facebook group I'm in, the top thing people said was that the saddle doesn't fit me and is contributing to the chair seat issue (but its also a dressage fb group and a jump saddle, so of course they would all want me in a dressage saddle). Unfortunately though I'm not in financial position to spend lots on a saddle that fits me and this specific horse because I'll have to be looking for a new share in about 5 months because I'm moving. So I guess for now it's trying to find the path that (A) doesn't harm the horse and (B) minimizes the bad habits I'm forming. Can't wait to be settled down in one location and not be on a grad school stipend any more so I can actually invest money/appointments in one horse/saddle combo.

Would you recommend osteopath over chiro/physio (for the human)?

 

[sbloom]

I personally like osteos, but I'd go on the best recommended person. Physios tend to have a different approach, and I'd only recommend one that works with riders, as they depend perhaps more than the others on exercises and I'd want those to be focused on you as a rider. There are brilliant ones like Andy Thomas who do a ridden session including any adjustments needed, on a proper bench, but they're few and far between. Go on recommendation, and one who deals with riders, rather than a specific modality. I would probably avoid chiros who do high velocity adjustments, the bone crackers, but McTimoney chiros are gentler.

 

[Rowreach]

I think you got some very useful replies on your first thread about this.

 

[EchoInterrupted]

I think you got some very useful replies on your first thread about this.

Yes, definitely. It was actually your notes about thinking about saddle fit and flocking compression first that made me start wondering and post this thread specifically about the saddle. Your sitting on my hands on a table suggestion (combined with reading more Mary Wanless where she suggests some similar exercises) is what got me focusing more on my seatbones in the saddle.

Finally had a chance to talk more in depth about all this with my instructor today - saddle looks good and she says I look balanced and even when she watches me from front and back, which is good. She did note that I sometimes collapse at the hip when circling at the canter, so that will be the next thing for me to be working on. As for the unevenness I'm feeling when I'm just at walk (which is not visible from the outside, so to say), I am thinking after today's chat with my instructor it may be a "me/my brain" issue rather than anything else and might be a result of sitting unevenly (always with one leg bent at the knee and foot up, tucked under the other leg's thigh) for hours in office chairs, resulting in uneven stretching of hip flexors and feeling uneven when I'm actually even in a saddle. When you're sitting unevenly for hours on end that starts to feel "normal" I supposed, and sitting "evenly" starts to feel wrong. I'm hoping more stretching and a visit to the human osteo/physio to get some exercises for these things might be the solution

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

This was definitely on my mind! (hence my question 5 ). Good to know it's a chiropractor or physio I should be looking for as I really had no idea - I will take a look around and see who I find! I definitely have positional habits in how I sit in my office chair etc (one leg tucked under the other, but always the same direction) and am worried these are contributing. I've been trying to be more even about it and stretching more, will be very interested to see what a chiropractor/physio says! Would you suggest telling them before the session what I'm feeling in the saddle, or waiting until towards the end of the session to see what they come up with on their own? Would be a bit concerned about "priming" them into saying something about my hip alignment/left leg just because I mentioned it at the start.

Ideally you need to find someone who is used to dealing with riders!! I would suggest you ask around locally and try to find someone who a lot of people use; but DO check their qualifications first!! Just because a professional rider, say, uses someone, it doesn't mean that that person has the correct qualifications. This is to keep you safe, essentially.

Personally I would be straight and up-front with your professional and tell them what's going on for you and what you think is happening; I see no point in playing a guessing-game TBH. Also you need to have the same conversation with any saddle-fitter you use too. Very important!

Good luck! At least you are recognising there is a problem and are actively trying to do something about it!

 

[sbloom]

When you're sitting unevenly for hours on end that starts to feel "normal" I supposed, and sitting "evenly" starts to feel wrong. I'm hoping more stretching and a visit to the human osteo/physio to get some exercises for these things might be the solution

Stretching, especially hip flexors, is actually not the main focus for improving functionality and symmetry, and I'd actually avoid stretching hip flexors full stop. Have a look at the work of Mary Wanless, Sally Swift, Andy Thomas, Activate Your Seat on FB....they look at balance, rotation, strength and control.