Dog aggression in car.....

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So as the regulars will know, I re-homed Millie the little lurcher a year and a half ago. She was found as a stray on the streets of Leominster, why anyone didn’t claim her I have no idea because she is the prettiest most endearing little soul I’ve met for a long time 😊 (as always, huge thanks to Blanche for letting me know about her! x)

Millie has come along in leaps and bound since I’ve had her - she was re-homed with the warning that she could be protective over toys, well she could be protective over anything! She bit the ex (no big deal, he didn’t know how to manage dogs at all 🙄) and she bit me (major blow to my pride!) through my own stupidity, we have worked through all of that now and she is a joy to own

Except I cannot get her out of the habit of ‘protecting’ her car when she is in it, which results in her barking furiously at any dogs/motorbikes/horses that we pass! It is embarrassing and annoying, since I am alone in the car and driving it is also very difficult to manage. I travel the four hounds in the back of my Landrover Discovery (back seats folded flat) so they have enough room. I am at a loss to know how to stop the behaviour - shouting at her has no effect, if I loop her (very long) lead around my wrist that stops her but it isn’t practical to always drive like that, and there isn’t enough space to put a crate up for her & still fit the other 3 in!

Short of an electric collar 🙄any ideas?
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I have no idea if it works but I have seen an ad for a 'Bark Buster', which apparently emits a sonic pulse which is highly irritating to dogs, £14.99 www.eaasylifegroup.com
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To be honest I’m willing to try anything! She sounds so aggressive and horrible in the car when that really isn’t what she is like on a day to day basis
☹️

ETA - gosh that was an eye opener googling bark collars! Don’t people realise that if their dog is barking all day at home he/she is bored/frustrated/stressed??!! A collar is not the way to treat that ☹️

Having said that, I understand that really a collar is not the way to ‘treat’ Millie, but she doesn’t seem to be relaxing into the knowledge that the car is a safe place for her yet
 
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My little corgi x does this, its horrid because its deafening. He does it with excitement though and not aggression. Could you get someone to travel with you and squirt her with a water pistol when she barks. Worked well with him but really only when someone was there to operate it! They now travel in the back of my Hilux so can yap to their hearts content. You can get anti bark collars that omit citronella which dogs are meant to hate and are not unkind if only used for short periods of time.
I agree that putting anti bark collars for dogs left home all day alone is extremely cruel, there are so many people who have dogs and no idea of their mental health needs.
 
I had the same problem with my two rescue lurchers. I have had the three rear windows blacked out and a dog guard behind the front seats is covered with opaque material so the dogs cannot see out. The fact they cannot practice guarding also means they are more relaxed. And so am I! No more tensing up every time there was a dog at the roadside or we stopped at a crossroad and other road users got close. The cost was minimal, I used a car window tinting company and asked for the windows o be covered in black out 'stuff'. A dog guard from Ebay fixed to the front seat head rests blocks the front view. You just have to get used to driving using the wing mirrors only. It is also perfectly legal.
 
Levrier said:
To be honest I’m willing to try anything! She sounds so aggressive and horrible in the car when that really isn’t what she is like on a day to day basis
☹️

ETA - gosh that was an eye opener googling bark collars! Don’t people realise that if their dog is barking all day at home he/she is bored/frustrated/stressed??!! A collar is not the way to treat that ☹️

Having said that, I understand that really a collar is not the way to ‘treat’ Millie, but she doesn’t seem to be relaxing into the knowledge that the car is a safe place for her yet
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I think the only obvious problem with the device that I linked to, is that you would have to hold it in your hand ready to operate it while you are driving.
 
Could you trial blocking out the windows on the boot and back windows with cardboard to see if removing the stimulus works? Then see if you can break the habit once you have more control on what she sees and can respond to?
Nothing worse then a dog kicking off in the confined space of a car! My ears are ringing in sympathy!
 
I had a collie like this-is she small enough to fit in the front footwell? I travelled him like this for a while and he eventually grew out of it. he wore a harness and the lead was looped around the passenger seat adjustment lever but tbh he settled into it straight away and never moved.
 
My first thought would have been a covered crate or Vari Kennel, it would not have to be huge, but this is not an option for you.

The behaviour is now well established and any counter conditioning would be a long laborious process and would require a person other than the driver to be present every time she was in the car for it to be effective, so I would forget about that.

I would not use any punitive device. You risk redirected aggression.

Anything she wore could potentially be activated by another dog so she could be punished when she hasn't done anything.

All the dogs in the car would be punished if you were to use an ultrasonic device or a citronella collar. A dog getting punished when there is no clear link to a behaviour risks anxiety and distress.

I believe citronella collars are to be banned along with shock collars.

I am not a fan of punishment full stop and sight hounds are a sensitive breed.

As MOC, Planete and Aru have said the easiest, kindest and most effective way would be to take steps to prevent her looking out of the window.

Edit. Did you see TheOldTrouts thread on music as an aid for dog relaxation. Working GSD provided a good link. It might help create a calmer environment. Classical music seems effective.
 
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Thanks all for some really positive and helpful ideas! It’s also a relief to know she isn’t the only dog that does this, it isn’t something I’ve experienced before.

MoC’s idea seems to be the easiest one as a quick and effective ‘fix’ so I’m going to give that a try starting today 😊 we go by car to our daily walk in the woods, so there are plenty of opportunities to test things out - if that doesn’t work then I’ll investigate a small covered crate for her or blacking out the windows etc

Thanks again, you’ve all been really helpful 😊
 
I too am in this position with my 11mo gsd. He is crated in 1 vehicle and behind a dog guard in the other and although there are 2 of us in the car we cannot get to him because of the guard/crate. We cannot black out the windows (although I could consider covering the crate) as we have a lot of junctions on tiny country roads and need the side windows to see and all the windows as we spend lots of time reversing on single track roads.
Even blacking the windows there is the problem of noise. Our roads are full of lose animals. We can drive through/past 50 sheep/cattle/ponies on the average outing. We squeeze past them on single track roads or wait for them to walk past us. He barks at some of these but not others. He also barks at people we pass riding horses which totally infuriates me. Worst of all he barks at some people we stop to talk to and we stop and talk several times as we go out in the car. Even blacked out he is going to hear these people talking to us.

I'm glad you posted this thread and I am not alone as this is driving me to distraction trying to find a way of dealing with it. A water pistol sounds a great idea but he would either fight it or play with it.
 
I would put her in the footwear if she will fit, all my new dogs start there now I have a van, it's so they are with me when I travel them for the first time.
Blocking what she can see would be my next port of call, citronella collars are not nice for dogs they can find the citronella overpowering.
 
twiggy2 said:
I would put her in the footwear if she will fit, all my new dogs start there now I have a van, it's so they are with me when I travel them for the first time.
Blocking what she can see would be my next port of call, citronella collars are not nice for dogs they can find the citronella overpowering.
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Just be aware of the following - https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/809385/driving-with-pet-law-rules-car-insurance-fine

I had dealings last week with a very unfortunate incident involving an unrestrained dog being thrown out of a vehicle (through the windscreen)during a crash and ending up dead.
 
paddy555 said:
I'm glad you posted this thread and I am not alone as this is driving me to distraction trying to find a way of dealing with it. A water pistol sounds a great idea but he would either fight it or play with it.
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Using an aversive, even a water pistol, has to be immediate and consistently applied every time the dog exhibits the behaviour. Timing is everything. Dogs don't make the connection between the correction and the behaviour if it occurs more than 2 seconds after the event. There is also the danger that he could perceive the correction to be associated with whatever is worrying him in the first place, thereby confirming his suspicions, rather than associate the correction with his behaviour. As I have said before, I am not a fan of punishment, it has the potential to backfire in so many ways.

How you have responded to him barking in the past will have had some influence on his behaviour. I don't know if you have been shouting at him but, if so, he could see this as confirming his belief that there is something to be worried about because you are also getting upset in the presence of the stimulus.

He sounds an extremely stressed and unhappy traveller and it must be very frustrating for you.

I don't think I can offer any useful suggestion, other than a covered crate and a more relaxed environment.

I am just a pet owner; there are dog trainers on the forum who can probably offer more helpful advice.
 
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MasterBenedict said:
Just be aware of the following - https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/809385/driving-with-pet-law-rules-car-insurance-fine

I had dealings last week with a very unfortunate incident involving an unrestrained dog being thrown out of a vehicle (through the windscreen)during a crash and ending up dead.
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The dogs are in the boot uncrated at the moment meaning a crash and broken windows could result in the same thing, unless all the windows are covered in grills. The safest way to travel dogs is in a fixed crash safe dog crate and very few people use those.
The law surrounding dogs being restrained in the car is not new it has just been flagged up for some reason recently.
 
skinnydipper said:
Using an aversive, even a water pistol, has to be immediate and consistently applied every time the dog exhibits the behaviour. Timing is everything. Dogs don't make the connection between the correction and the behaviour if it occurs more than 2 seconds after the event. There is also the danger that he could perceive the correction to be associated with whatever is worrying him in the first place, thereby confirming his suspicions, rather than associate the correction with his behaviour. As I have said before, I am not a fan of punishment, it has the potential to backfire in so many ways.

How you have responded to him barking in the past will have had some influence on his behaviour. I don't know if you have been shouting at him but, if so, he could see this as confirming his belief that there is something to be worried about because you are also getting upset in the presence of the stimulus.

He sounds an extremely stressed and unhappy traveller and it must be very frustrating for you.

I don't think I can offer any useful suggestion, other than a covered crate and a more relaxed environment.
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thanks for your comments. He is in a fact a very happy traveller, loves it and he is so keen to go. Loves waiting in the car while we eat and those sorts of things. Most of the time he just lies down and goes to sleep whilst we are driving. It is a major part of his life and the least stressful as far as "nervous" stress is concerned. I perhaps didn't give a very good impression of this in my earlier post. Sorry. A good part of the problem, looking at it from his POV, I think is that he thinks it is his vehicle and his job to protect it. He cannot seem to dfferentiate between being shut in the car in a car park on his own when I am delighted if he makes his voice heard if someone comes too close and being with us when there is no danger to the vehicle and we just want him to shut up. I can see he could think if we are driving through a herd of say 15 cows and many bump the sides of the landrover as we pass that he thinks we are under attack but how do I explain it is quite safe, quite normal and is always going to happen.
 
Another vote for car harness from me. I've always used it on my bitches, and they've all quickly learned that you sit or lay relatively still when you ride anywhere, because otherwise the harness will soon restrict your movement. Putting her in the footwell, or on the front seat next to you, means she will be within your reach, and you can give her a little tug in the harness if she doesn't listen to you.

Maybe try Adaptil spray to see if that could help her calm down a bit.

Not sure it would be very practical to try and use a water pistol (or a spray bottle for flowers) when you're driving. If the squirt of water misses her, is she the type of dog who will still pay attention to that you squirted water in her direction?
Regardless if one see it as being based on punishment, or as something that could be used as a distraction, I wonder if it just won't lead to a wet car, and a still guardbarking Millie.

A covered crate, or blackening out the windows somehow, also sounds like good ideas.
Ideally is perhaps to have a friend drive the car so that you can focus on training her, but it still needs to work when you're alone with her.

If all else fails, have you considered trying to give her a calming pill? I don't mean to be used for the rest of her life, without to be used for a short period, to help you teach her that she can be calm in the car.
 
That’s exactly how Millie is Paddy555 - in the same way that her crate is her ‘safe place’ and she will get very defensive in it (hence biting incidents!), she also has to protect her car space.
 
paddy555 said:
A good part of the problem, looking at it from his POV, I think is that he thinks it is his vehicle and his job to protect it. He cannot seem to dfferentiate between being shut in the car in a car park on his own when I am delighted if he makes his voice heard if someone comes too close and being with us when there is no danger to the vehicle and we just want him to shut up.
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It must be confusing for him if sometimes his barking is welcomed and at other times it is not.

There may be some way to train him to "guard" the vehicle when it is required and stand down from this duty when it is not required but I am not clever enough to tell you how to achieve this.
 
skinnydipper said:
It must be confusing for him if sometimes his barking is welcomed and at other times it is not.

There may be some way to train him to "guard" the vehicle when it is required and stand down from this duty when it is not required but I am not clever enough to tell you how to achieve this.
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no problem, thanks for your help. I am sure I am missing something. It is easy when he is in the house, hears something, barks to defend and then we can approach him and take him to see the problem. He does get told "good boy" for that behaviour. That is in fact a good part of the reason he is here to alert me to problems in the house or a dark yard at night. I haven't taught him to bark so therefore also haven't taught him to "cease" I agree it must be confusing when we want one sort of behaviour when we are in danger and another when we feel quite safe.
 
paddy555 said:
no problem, thanks for your help. I am sure I am missing something. It is easy when he is in the house, hears something, barks to defend and then we can approach him and take him to see the problem. He does get told "good boy" for that behaviour. That is in fact a good part of the reason he is here to alert me to problems in the house or a dark yard at night. I haven't taught him to bark so therefore also haven't taught him to "cease" I agree it must be confusing when we want one sort of behaviour when we are in danger and another when we feel quite safe.
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i am not a dog trainer but your post reminded me that i was told that if a dog is barking when not required, the way to sort it is to train him to bark on your command, and treat, once he does that you then train him to stop using a similar method....never tried it myself but is seems it may work so you wouldnt be able to stop him barking completely but would have the ability to stop it going on continually,,maybe worth a try....
 
Pen the lab also guards the pick up, she had a fight in it on Monday which was deeply embarassing as strange dogs are always being hurled in and out on shoot days (the dog she fought with was none the worse and it was at least 50/50). Today she wouldn't let one of the beaters get 'her' pheasants out until I got there. I see her POV but most unnecessary.

Millie is lovely.
 
Levrier said:
So as the regulars will know, I re-homed Millie the little lurcher a year and a half ago. She was found as a stray on the streets of Leominster, why anyone didn’t claim her I have no idea because she is the prettiest most endearing little soul I’ve met for a long time 😊 (as always, huge thanks to Blanche for letting me know about her! x)

Millie has come along in leaps and bound since I’ve had her - she was re-homed with the warning that she could be protective over toys, well she could be protective over anything! She bit the ex (no big deal, he didn’t know how to manage dogs at all 🙄) and she bit me (major blow to my pride!) through my own stupidity, we have worked through all of that now and she is a joy to own

Except I cannot get her out of the habit of ‘protecting’ her car when she is in it, which results in her barking furiously at any dogs/motorbikes/horses that we pass! It is embarrassing and annoying, since I am alone in the car and driving it is also very difficult to manage. I travel the four hounds in the back of my Landrover Discovery (back seats folded flat) so they have enough room. I am at a loss to know how to stop the behaviour - shouting at her has no effect, if I loop her (very long) lead around my wrist that stops her but it isn’t practical to always drive like that, and there isn’t enough space to put a crate up for her & still fit the other 3 in!

Short of an electric collar 🙄any ideas?
Click to expand...
 
I’d be blacking out the windows I think. As long as it doesn’t compromise you’re safet6 whilst driving obviously.

How about a swap for your discovery for a landy pick up? They have solid tops so use I’d only need to black out the tail bit. Bit drastic but I don’t think much will stop her unless she can’t see out. 😳
 
Levrier said:
So as the regulars will know, I re-homed Millie the little lurcher a year and a half ago. She was found as a stray on the streets of Leominster, why anyone didn’t claim her I have no idea because she is the prettiest most endearing little soul I’ve met for a long time 😊 (as always, huge thanks to Blanche for letting me know about her! x)

Millie has come along in leaps and bound since I’ve had her - she was re-homed with the warning that she could be protective over toys, well she could be protective over anything! She bit the ex (no big deal, he didn’t know how to manage dogs at all 🙄) and she bit me (major blow to my pride!) through my own stupidity, we have worked through all of that now and she is a joy to own

Except I cannot get her out of the habit of ‘protecting’ her car when she is in it, which results in her barking furiously at any dogs/motorbikes/horses that we pass! It is embarrassing and annoying, since I am alone in the car and driving it is also very difficult to manage. I travel the four hounds in the back of my Landrover Discovery (back seats folded flat) so they have enough room. I am at a loss to know how to stop the behaviour - shouting at her has no effect, if I loop her (very long) lead around my wrist that stops her but it isn’t practical to always drive like that, and there isn’t enough space to put a crate up for her & still fit the other 3 in!

Short of an electric collar 🙄any ideas?
Click to expand...

I keep expecting you to have words with me about landing you with a naughty dog! I can't really help with the barking thing , though I think blocking her view or teaching to bark and stop barking may help. I used the teaching to bark/ stop on command with a collie many, many moons ago ( can't remember what the problem was but not car related) and it did solve the problem. You have my sympathies though as it is awful having a dog bark in the car . I have had two friends dogs for holiday stays over the years that barked incessantly in the car and it made me want to rip my ears off.
You could do what I saw a GSD owner do the other day ( weirdly in Leominster) , drive through town with a pair of ear defenders on and ignore your dog screaming in the back.
 
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