Dog aggression

Dobiegirl said:
I think that is so unfair and would like to know what experience you have of this to draw that conclusion, the rescues Ive worked With have gone above and beyond to matching the correct dog to the right home and will be fairly assessed with ongoing support and back-up. Not all rescues do this I know so its wrong to lump all rescues in together, I know you dont like rescues for some reason but it certainly hasnt been my experience, take Cayla for example and her rescue, the work she does with dogs is exceptional and she has probably handled more dogs and trained them than most of us have had hot dinners.
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I agree Dobiegirl.

Stop tarring everyone with the same brush Alec. Unless you have personal knowledge of the 'the vast majority' of rescue centres, how on earth can you make a comment like that without fact. I'd be pleased to see the figures that you have about the 'bulk' of rescue centres, unsuccessfully, rehoming animals and where these figures come from.

There are thousands of members on this forum, it would be very odd if no one had a problem with a rescue dog and posted about it. Fact.
 
There are plenty of dogs out there who have been owned since puppyhood and who because of handling, experience, trauma and/or genetics, happen to have issues. None of these issues are exclusive to rescue dogs. S*** happens.

If dog ownership is not fun and pleasurable and fulfilling for both dog and owner, it needs a solution, no matter where they come from.
 
CorvusCorax said:
There are plenty of dogs out there who have been owned since puppyhood and who because of handling, experience, trauma and/or genetics, happen to have issues. None of these issues are exclusive to rescue dogs. S*** happens.

…….. .
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I agree, but I wonder what the percentage is of dogs which are 'handed in' to a rescue centre, and which come complete with their own set of generally and previously learned problems. The bulk of them, I'd say.

A disclaimer here, that's 'BULK, NOT ALL'! :)

Alec.
 
Dobiegirl said:
What set my alarm bells going is the fact that your wife thought it was acceptable to use the dog as a pillow with his history, I wouldn't do that with any of mine and I know they wouldnt react.

Its obvious the dog has not learnt any boundaries and can do virtually what he wants so helping to set up the situation you find yourself in today.

This dog has been failed, it was failed by the rescue who either hadn't assessed it properly or because they placed it in a home that was not suitable for a dog like this. Given that this has been allowed to continue and escalate I can only see one outcome and that is pts. OP you might think I'm being harsh here but this dog was outside your experience and instead of having strict boundaries and routines which a fearful dog desperately needs and addressing any issues as they arise you have worked around the situation without addressing them. At the very least the rescue if you contacted them should either have offered advice with a recommended behaviourist or taken the dog back,
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Totally agree with Dobiegirl on this one - I deleted the harsh (but undoubtedly true) words I had typed because that wouldn't solve or improve anything, but I would recommend you contact the rescue ASAP to ask them to take the poor dog back or PTS immediately.
 
So youre basing your wild theory on the fact you know 4 people who work for a rescue locally lol.

I would say the bulk and Im using my experiences here most of the dogs coming in are because of a marriage or relationship breakdown,losing their job and having to move into rented accommodation or a death in the family(not attributed to the dog)lol and the birth of a baby. Some dogs come from pounds or puppy farmers(pups they cant sell) so will have an unknown history but that is where fosterers come in, they take the dog into their family and get them used to rules,boundaries etc and what the dog is like with children,cats and small furries.

My previous foster dog was rehomed with a bitch one they have had since a pup, my ex foster dog continues to be a star and as well mannered as the day they adopted him, in the meantime they have had problems with their bitch which im helping them with but it just goes to show that rescue dogs that are properly cared for and assessed can fit in most places. The irony is they took the foster away for the weekend to their daughters and I minded the resident dog because the grandchildren dont like the resident dog but love my ex foster.
 
Alec Swan said:
I agree, but I wonder what the percentage is of dogs which are 'handed in' to a rescue centre, and which come complete with their own set of generally and previously learned problems. The bulk of them, I'd say.

A disclaimer here, that's 'BULK, NOT ALL'! :)

Alec.
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So still no actual figures or fact then.
 
chillipup said:
I did read it. Why so rude?
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Because, it seems that you failed to actually understand what I'd said, and repeated for those and for whom it may not sink in, as it seemed that it didn't! Rudeness is often born of frustration when others are unable to assimilate the written word that's in front of them. Mind you, my fault I suppose, it happens on forums, so what did I expect?! :D

Alec.
 
'Bulk, vast majority, but not all.' Your words. What's not to understand? Perhaps I should have said, for your benefit, 'not to tar the vast majority or bulk' with your assumptions. I apologise for not being able to assimilate the written word as you would do.(I call it splitting hairs) However, I don't expect to have someone belittle me just because I questioned you and asked for your evidence. I won't be holding my breath for an answer nor do I want one. Thank you.
 
I have read through everyone's comments at last and I would like to thank you all for replying. As usual there are the people who think they know everything but the majority have made some very valid and useful points.

I am very experienced at rehoming greyhounds, Polo is my eighth and apart from the first one I ever rehomed, the others have all been problem dogs in one way or another. I knew they had issues before I rehomed them which is why I took them on to give them a chance.

I have had various problems with them like the one who was 3 and had been in 8 homes before I got him - he suffered from separation anxiety and I had him for 7 years. Another who escaped everywhere she went because she found being in a home traumatic. I had her from the age of 7 until 13 and it took time but she settled in well. The 7 yo who no one wanted because he was a big black male with 5 teeth and the 11yo that was returned to kennels after 10 years because the owners got a puppy it didn't get on with. Not to mention the 9 yo black bitch we have only had for 4 months because she was returned after 5 years because she became incontinent. I therefore do not feel I am inexperienced.

We do not treat Polo as a pillow. My wife laid her head on him to give him a cuddle as we've done many times before but didn't realise he was in such a deep sleep. Yes he was on the sofa but all my others have always slept on the sofa with us and as I've said before, it's not a dominance problem, he only bites when scared.

We try not to put him in situations that will frighten him, we avoid certain walks that worry him, ie past the schools at going home time, places where lots of other dog walkers are, busy town centres and also we don't walk him in the dark as he's nervous of that. We do our best for him and my wife made a stupid mistake which she regrets. I do NOT believe that we have failed him in anyway, he is just an incredibly nervous dog that had been returned twice already and was destined to spend his life in kennels.

We haven't decided what to do yet, but rightly or wrongly we are thinking of giving him one last chance. One more hint of aggression and he will be pts. We will of course do our utmost to avoid any such situation arising.
 
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Good on you for standing by the dog. Sadly I fear that unless you get some help he will bite again.
I understand you are experienced with greyhounds but sometimes it takes a fresh perspective.
I really would give a behaviourist a try. Good luck.
 
Mitchyden, I'm sorry that you seem to have taken exception to those posts with which you don't seem to agree, but you asked for helpful suggestions, and I believe that that's what, in the main, has been given.

Dogs which pose a threat 'can' be managed and with an improved level of safely, but with what seems to be an escalating situation, expecting the dog to change wouldn't be realistic as I'm sure that you're aware. With a deteriorating man/dog situation it's we the humans who have to alter our approach, which isn't always easy.

For what it's worth, my advice would remain the same, but I wish you luck which ever path you take.

Alec.
 
What I find concerning about this thread is that the OP admits he has a rogue biter. Even the best behaved and managed dog will occasionally stray. A door is left open or it chases a rabbit when out for a walk. It can happen.

Then we are told...

"He also has major problems when you grab his collar".

What does a concerned member of the public do when they encounter a dog that is obviously lost and in danger of being run over?

There is a facet of English law called "scienter". The definition is as follows, "Scienter is a legal term that refers to intent or knowledge of wrongdoing. This means that an offending party has knowledge of the "wrongness" of an act or event prior to committing it". Knowing that your dog is a biter places absolute liability on you, the owner, for any harm it may do.

The courts are not particularly concerned whether a dog is biting because of aggression or nervousness, but they will be very interested that the owner knew all about the problem but decided to risk some young child's face because they wanted "to give the dog one more chance". Forget about your insurance as the vice would need to be declared and no company in it's right mind would give cover anyway.

The OP states that he is very experienced in handling these 'rescued' greyhounds. Then why post a question here? Dogs like routine and they like clear lines of demarcation. If one of my dogs growls at me, I decide what issues are involved and set about solving them. The growl is a clear warning, "Cross this line and I will attack/defend myself". If the problem cannot be solved, sadly the dog is pts. That is the way it has always been and that is why most dogs do not go around biting people. The dogs that are bred to protect are usually highly trainable so the biting can be controlled. Some breeds are banned by law because once they get excited and go into attack mode, they cannot be controlled. IMO, dogs of other breeds that bite should be dealt with in the same way.

Sorry, OP, just because you like a post, or they folow a popular trend, does not make that advice right. You have an unpredictable rogue biter that has become a liability. It may be unpalatable, but if it cannot be corrected because of the dog's age, past experience, or possible medical condition, the solution is clear.
 
Lots of good advice on this thread but tbh, he doesn't sound a very happy dog even with all your good intentions. Would it not be better for him to call it a day and remove all his anxieties and fears. You have clearly tried very hard with him, sometimes it is the hardest decision that is absolutely the right one.
 
Polo is not a rogue biter, he is the sweetest dog you could ever have unless he gets scared! Man has made him this way due to some sort of ill treatment in the past which is why I have tried my utmost to sort him out. Why should he die because of what someone has done to him in the past? He will never bite a child as he is never around children and whenever he is out in public he is muzzled like a lot of greyhounds. If he ever did get lose there is no way anyone would ever get close enough to him to grab his collar so that isn't an issue.

In the main, the advice has been very good but I don't like the way I am made out to be a complete failure when it comes to looking after dogs. Also some of the replies have been quite aggressive in the way they have been written. I want the best for Polo which is why I feel really guilty having a perfectly healthy dog pts. I just wanted to hear that this is the right decision if I decide to go down this route.

I have an appointment at the vet tomorrow to discuss this further as she knows him very well. Then if she thinks I should give him another chance then I will be contacting a reputable behaviourist for their advice.
 
Also in response to the comment about "why did I need to post for advice on here if I'm that experienced with greyhounds" - nobody knows everything and everybody needs advice at some stage in their life
 
I certainly do not think you are a failure and its always good to ask for other peoples thoughts on a problem, none of us knows everything. You have clearly thought this through and are anxious to do the right thing by this boy whatever direction that takes. Good luck with the Vets tomorrow.
 
Any history of seizures or eyesight problems? Some meds can be a problem in a dog with these issues. Any sedation may reduce his inhibition enough to declare open season on everyone and a muzzle punch can still injure a child.

Rescues can only do so much and finding the right temperament of owner for each dog is not often open to them. There are no problem dogs...., this is why posters get frustrated. My dogs don't have 'safe' places, they share my space and when I want to go somewhere they have to move!

When handling dogs, we used to put a 'flat' dog with a highly strung handler to raise his game and a highly strung dog with a slack-jawed yokel for the same reasons! I've seen countless dogs do well with different owners especially where temperament is a big factor.

I note you disciplined him for the first time at six months? If you'd growled at him on day one you might have got the desired behaviour with just a look by six months ;-)
 
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Fellewell said:
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When handling dogs, we used to put a 'flat' dog with a highly strung handler to raise his game and a highly strung dog with a slack-jawed yokel for the same reasons! I've seen countless dogs do well with different owners especially where temperament is a big factor.

I note you disciplined him for the first time at six months? If you'd growled at him on day one you might have got the desired behaviour with just a look by six months ;-)
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You've trained a dog or two, it seems! :wink3: Well said.

Alec.
 
OP - I am sorry you're in this situation. The thing that concerns me about your original post is that you say (paraphrased, sorry) that your wife knew that she shouldn't lie on the dog or disturb him when he was sleeping but forgot. With a dog you know is edgy, nervous and potentially dangerous you can't forget for a second - it's why it's such a strain. FWIW I think it sounds as if your dog is manageable, but whether you are willing to manage him with no let-up, no letting your guard down and no relaxing of the rules for the rest of his life is another question entirely, and there's no shame in admitting that it's not a realistic option for your family.

I know I'm probably repeating what you already know and I don't mean to sound patronising. Please ignore the posts telling you what you should have done with Polo years ago to avoid this issue now - they may or may not be right, but it's not what you need to hear at the moment, you have my sympathy.
 
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