Dog attack and ignorant owner

littlelegs said:
I find your response equally ridiculous rutland. I think there are just as many out of control riders, as there are dog owners. And I maintain if a horse is startled by a loose dog, that isn't bothering them, the rider should be questioning their own training, not insisting the dog is on a lead. There's absolutely no reason a horse should be permanently scared of harmless dogs. On bridleways I don't expect families etc to pander to what my horse may take a dislike to, whether its a kid on a scooter, a pram or a dog, I expect my horse to deal with it.
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Agree - big difference between a loose dog having fun and a dog jumping up at or attacking a horse. My horse is naturally a spooky type but has got used to all sorts on our hacks. He can still be an idiot but that's my problem not other peoples if they have otherwise been reasonable.

It's a shame how people on all sides are poised to get enraged about everything all the time. I often stop and chat to people with kids and dogs and cyclists on my rides as I think the more you talk to people the less likely they are to treat you like a stuck-up horse rider and more like a fellow human being :)
 
Why on earth would someone let their dog run up to a horse? But yes it happens, we were riding down the bridle path and a dog decided to chase us. My horse kicked out at it, but no owner in sight. Just let them wonder because they are on the bridle path. I have had dogs all my life and watch them when I am out with them as they are my responsibility.

The other week we had a spaniel run out onto a cycle path causing an incident to a cyclist. No owner again and the dog just ran off. No wonder there is dog muck everywhere. They have no idea where their dogs are.
 
Glad you both ok, some dog owners are unbelievable, mine has kicked numerous dogs over the years, "all deserving it."

Up until the last few months, the local dog trainer used to get me to take Po to his classes on Sat/Sun mornings, we would ride through all the dogs who would be sat to heel at their owners side, any dogs that kicked off he would show the owner how to control the dog, for a few weeks a man and his daughter came with a Rotty each, TWICE she failed to hold onto it, this was well before we got there and quite a distance away, bloody thing came hurtling towards us, fortunately the dog trainer headed it off, but he banned them not along after as one bit him, and was a real pain with other dogs, some people shouldn't have these dogs as they clearly can't physically handle them.
NOA
 
All of my dogs are scared of horses. Once on a walk my old boy saw a horse & turned on his heels & came hurtling towards me at high speed. The only way to stop him was with a rugby tackle. Then I had to hide his eyes whilst the horse passed!

Even before having a horse I was always careful to keep my dogs under control. Some people are just unbelievably ignorant.
 
I'm not quite sure what the videos for shadey oak? (youtube wouldn't load last night) I don't think anyone's denying real dog attacks happen.
 
Pedantic said:
Glad you both ok, some dog owners are unbelievable, mine has kicked numerous dogs over the years, "all deserving it."

Up until the last few months, the local dog trainer used to get me to take Po to his classes on Sat/Sun mornings, we would ride through all the dogs who would be sat to heel at their owners side, any dogs that kicked off he would show the owner how to control the dog, for a few weeks a man and his daughter came with a Rotty each, TWICE she failed to hold onto it, this was well before we got there and quite a distance away, bloody thing came hurtling towards us, fortunately the dog trainer headed it off, but he banned them not along after as one bit him, and was a real pain with other dogs, some people shouldn't have these dogs as they clearly can't physically handle them.
NOA
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Completely agree thats what i said to her at the end of the day you shouldnt be walking that dog in a lead that is ripping and it can snap easily. The woman had no control over the dog thank god someone else managed to bundle the dog into the car as it would of gone for Tess again. At the end of the day if a dog gets off a lead and attacks a horse it is the owners fault for not being able to control it.

If the woman had been walking the dog without the pram on a strong lead the whole accident wouldnt of happened. We have brought Tess up alongside dogs flying through her legs to stay calm if it had justed followed her curiously she wouldnt of bothered it was the snapping jaws at her bum that caused her to kick out (dont blame her )
 
littlelegs said:
I'm not quite sure what the videos for shadey oak? (youtube wouldn't load last night) I don't think anyone's denying real dog attacks happen.
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Just shows that it doesn't matter how well you train your horse to cope with dogs, there's always going to be a chance THIS is going to happen, and YES I think it IS relevant to this thread.
 
I'm not picking an argument, I'm just genuinely curious as to what you are trying to get across shadey oak. Are you saying that if all dogs were legally required to be on leads attacks wouldn't happen? Or that the problems are down to the minority of idiot dog owners? Or that however a horse reacts to dogs it doesn't matter, it could still be attacked? Like I say, not trying to argue, just trying to understand what you mean.
 
Shadeyoak said:
Just shows that it doesn't matter how well you train your horse to cope with dogs, there's always going to be a chance THIS is going to happen, and YES I think it IS relevant to this thread.
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I actually don't see how it's relevant to this thread at all, really.
 
I personally think there is a correlation between dog owners now being told that any corrections, aversives, compulsion in dog training (you will NOT do this, or else there will be negative consequences) and any admonishment of your dog or, shock horror, using a little power steering, is cruel and bad and you are an animal abuser, and the rise in the number of unruly dogs. People are not being trained how to play or bond with their dogs and think that the dog will automatically place them at the centre of their universe - some dogs, maybe, for others, you actually have to teach them that.

Just look at the vitriol reserved for any trainer who dares to correct a dog (or a horse?!) on some of the threads on this board.
From the same people who no doubt ride in pelhams, use whips, spurs, chifneys etc to control their horses.

Also the sheer availability of magnificent looking but entirely unsuitable breeds for sedentary pet homes (Rotts, GSDs, spaniels, huskies need a wee bit more exercise and stimulation than a bimble around the block a couple of times a day - they are WORKING dogs) from backyard breeders on Preloved, Bumtree and Scumdeal, which was never possible before. And of course a lot of the people who sell on those sites will not give advice, they don't care where the pups go, they will not provide aftercare, because their main motivation in money.

There are some dogs with huge genetic inbuilt chase/prey drive which people would realise if they actually read up on the breed and looked into what it was **originally designed to do** rather than run out and buy the first cute puppy they see.

I am not saying people need to batter their dogs but 'ignore the bad, reward the good' training does not work on dogs which self-reward and people need to realise that some dogs are genetically predisposed to the chase and it takes a lot to argue with the genes. Chasing a horse is a MUCH higher reward for a dog than a biscuit and a pat on the head. You CANNOT ignore livestock chasing. The dog will always win.
 
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Oh one more ramble....for some dogs, going out, letting it off the lead, you walking along at your own merry pace and letting the dog bimble along, is not enough.

If I did that with my young dog, for however many hours a day, he would come home and eat the house because he would be bored stiff.

Some dogs need to think, need to problem solve, need a bit of excitement in their lives, even if that is ball chucking, hiding things for them along the way to find, short bursts of obedience training, focus work.

If you're a dog with a brain, perhaps with a drive to work in your genes, but all you do is bimble along sniffing the ground and all of a sudden a massive fast moving projectile comes flying around the corner OMG! of course you are going to chase it.

I don't personally think that going out and letting a dog off the lead is exercising or stimulating a lot of dogs. But I digress...
 
I so agree cc, regarding suitable breeds/exercise/handling. My dogs have all been so different regarding how they were exercised. Both terriers liked pottering along, sniffing, digging, & preferably killing rodents. The pyreneans liked to stroll for miles, with the odd burst of energy. Current dog is mostly doberman, with I suspect some lurcher. No prey drive whatsoever, & much as I love him little intelligence. He likes to run. Not after anything, but will run for miles. Mornings he goes off for several laps of the empty hayfield while we do horses. He prefers being walked via bike or horse, so he isn't constantly being told to wait. Or somewhere secluded & open with another playful dog who will race & wrestle. He'll do the calm, trotting along at my side happily. But, he also needs his run first thing. Closest comparison I can think of is an overactive sporty child on too much sugar & caffeine. But I see what you mean. If his exercise routine was pottering round a housing estate, while I doubt he'd suddenly develop a prey drive, once off lead on a bridleway he'd cause havoc by racing off out of control & out of site. Just out of frustration at it not being a regular freedom.
 
She, my dog is not interested in animals larger than her - on a walk she's 'stimulated' by squirrel chasing/hunting if in woodlands. If we're in open fields, she may seek out rabbits but she would just as soon you had a ball with you to throw on a field walk (she's very obsessive about things like that!). I think either type of exercise/stimulation like that is adequate. Horses she's rather just avoid. Although actually when I think back to when I got her she was scared of horses (never seen them) and she would be on a lead always then anyway - she would bark at them (that's her default reaction to things she's fearful of) but it did not take me long to train her not to do that and now she doesn't react to them at all.
 
ladyt25 said:
She, my dog is not interested in animals larger than her - on a walk she's 'stimulated' by squirrel chasing/hunting if in woodlands. If we're in open fields, she may seek out rabbits but she would just as soon you had a ball with you to throw on a field walk (she's very obsessive about things like that!). I think either type of exercise/stimulation like that is adequate. Horses she's rather just avoid. Although actually when I think back to when I got her she was scared of horses (never seen them) and she would be on a lead always then anyway - she would bark at them (that's her default reaction to things she's fearful of) but it did not take me long to train her not to do that and now she doesn't react to them at all.
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Well thats the thing good owners that train a dog how to react like yourself help lessen accidents :) the entire incident was based on a lousy owner who i think got this young rotti to look "hard" and basically let it rule the roost !
 
I just wanted to re-iterate, please - anyone with a similar story to this, no matter how long ago - please report it on http://www.horseaccidents.org.uk/Report_an_Incident.aspx

These incidents, and quite shocking accidents, need recording somewhere.
If you know someone who had any accident whilst riding, if they haven't access to 'tinternet - please report for them.

OP - I hope you and your sister can put this behind you and not let it spoil your enjoyment of horseriding. Saint of a horse by the way ;)
 
Ha ha little legs. I have a Doberman. She spends her life running in large circles round the fields. Not chasing anything. Just running and running and running :) Always circles too :) she has no prey drive. The jack russell on the other hand has a huge prey drive, as his breed should.
 
muff747 said:
I just wanted to re-iterate, please - anyone with a similar story to this, no matter how long ago - please report it on http://www.horseaccidents.org.uk/Report_an_Incident.aspx

These incidents, and quite shocking accidents, need recording somewhere.
If you know someone who had any accident whilst riding, if they haven't access to 'tinternet - please report for them.

OP - I hope you and your sister can put this behind you and not let it spoil your enjoyment of horseriding. Saint of a horse by the way ;)
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Totally agree it warns others :)

And i wasnt put off it was a freak accident sadly my natural nervous sister is still very wary when out :( and she really is we are lucky to have her
 
I have always accepeted that dogs behave differently and that one should always be cautious of them. Some dogs will just ignore horse others will bark at horses but were it becomes dangerous is when they attack horses This is unacceptable and one can not expect horse riders to except this form of behaviour.

I have ridden my horse in Central London and also in rural areas. I must say that dogs in London are far better behaved than those in the country. I regularly used to ride my horse in Hyde Park and Hampstead Heath where some dogs were off the lead but had no problems at all. I find country dogs are far more of a problem.

Whilst riding on a single lane road past a farm house two dogs ran out of the yard and attacked my horse pulling her down on to the road and continuing to attack her while I fought them off by kicking them and using my whip. My horse was injured and required veterinary treatment. I visited the farmer concerned who was extremely abusive so I contacted our local rural Police officer and also the local dog warden. Both of them went to see the farmer concerned and made it quite clear that his dogs must not be allowed to run loose outside his farm and if they were found to do so they would be destroyed. My horse was traumatised by the attack and was never the same with dogs again.
In my mind some dogs are potentially killing machines.
There are several laws covering the control of dogs and if you are attacked then always report it and also on the www.horseaccidents.org.uk web site.
 
littlelegs said:
What really annoys me is that morons like this get certain breeds a bad reputation, that's completely undeserved. And whilst of course there is no one to blame but the dog owner when the dog gets hurt, I hate the fact the dog has to suffer. Especially cases when the dog is pts for so called aggressive behavior, when really the owner needs pts.
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+1. 3 of the kindest dogs I know are rotties and fantastic with the horses. However they are also one of the worst behaved and dangerous dogs I've known.

There doesn't need to be a dangerous dogs act with set breeds, there needs to be better control on who can own animals.

I've had problems in the past, not with horses, but with livestock. One ended up with us grabbing dog and throwing it in trailer (while still attached to the long line lead which she had it 'under control' on after flattening half our chickens and a kid.
Others have been locked in sheds etc after killing lambs and pound called. All occasions with owner stood next to us shouting the odds on rights.
We closed the foothpath through our field with lambs a couple of years ago after several attacks. People complained and council turned up to back our decision and put a notice that this year was closed til lambs moved and all dogs on leads through or they'd be taken away.

Pound locally is great, see it most nights around ours, driving the fields and parks.
 
PandorasJar said:
+1. 3 of the kindest dogs I know are rotties and fantastic with the horses. However they are also one of the worst behaved and dangerous dogs I've known.

There doesn't need to be a dangerous dogs act with set breeds, there needs to be better control on who can own animals.

I've had problems in the past, not with horses, but with livestock. One ended up with us grabbing dog and throwing it in trailer (while still attached to the long line lead which she had it 'under control' on after flattening half our chickens and a kid.
Others have been locked in sheds etc after killing lambs and pound called. All occasions with owner stood next to us shouting the odds on rights.
We closed the foothpath through our field with lambs a couple of years ago after several attacks. People complained and council turned up to back our decision and put a notice that this year was closed til lambs moved and all dogs on leads through or they'd be taken away.

Pound locally is great, see it most nights around ours, driving the fields and parks.
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It is a shame that idiots give breeds bad names i am totally against judging by a breed that sadly staffa, rottis and GSD dogs get :( I dont blame you for closing the footpath off if there is livestock people should plop their dogs on the lead i always do ! Its manners
 
ladyt25 said:
She, my dog is not interested in animals larger than her - on a walk she's 'stimulated' by squirrel chasing/hunting if in woodlands. If we're in open fields, she may seek out rabbits but she would just as soon you had a ball with you to throw on a field walk (she's very obsessive about things like that!). I think either type of exercise/stimulation like that is adequate. Horses she's rather just avoid. Although actually when I think back to when I got her she was scared of horses (never seen them) and she would be on a lead always then anyway - she would bark at them (that's her default reaction to things she's fearful of) but it did not take me long to train her not to do that and now she doesn't react to them at all.
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I was not talking about anyone on this thread, I was talking about people/dog owners generally. That is adequate for your dog, but definitely not every dog.
I prefer to be the main stimulus for the dog! Although it is still a work in progress :rolleyes:
 
Lol copperpot. When I still had the terrier she tried teaching him how to rat/mouse. But eventually gave up in disgust as he just ran round whatever she dug up in excited circles.
 
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