dog attack

[tim_]

Thanks for all your responses (especially Alec), we're considering introducing a dog into the family but with two young children (5yo) what, how and when is becoming a long discussion.

 

[Elsbells]

Some years ago I took in my sister's beautiful Doberman bitch who had a history of biting. She was a pretty dobe, really sweet and gentle with her family but would just attack a stranger. I thought as I'm "good" with animals that I could sort her out but ultimately we took 2 steps forward and 1 back constantly. The last straw was when she bit a trainer friend of mine who bred and handle Dobes as her business, I knew then as I drove away that I couldn't take her home again and without discussion I took straight to my vets and sat with her as 3 vets put her to sleep.
Ultimately, although now I believe that her problem was an undiagnosed congenital and progressive blindness which wasnt her fault, my responsibility was to the people she would hurt in the future and that by putting her to sleep this was the only course if action afforded to me, to keep everyone safe and her safe too because obviously she was terrified when she attacked.
I would not have a loaded gun in the house, neither an attack dog which is what they are. It broke my heart but its a decision I will stand by and one IMO that your friend needs to make.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Based on a number of people's experiences including mine, I would trust an unknown collie over an unknown Labrador every single time.

christ, I wouldnt-and I've met some very thuggy labs. I've been bitten by allsorts but mainly Westies being an ex VN-and alot of collies. I owned a collie myself that couldnt be trusted around anyone but me and my ex SiL.

still rather be bitten by a westie or even a collie than a cane corso weirdly. having also been attacked on the street by an EBT, so its not always about sheer size.

 

[PucciNPoni]

christ, I wouldnt-and I've met some very thuggy labs. I've been bitten by allsorts but mainly Westies being an ex VN-and alot of collies. I owned a collie myself that couldnt be trusted around anyone but me and my ex SiL.

still rather be bitten by a westie or even a collie than a cane corso weirdly. having also been attacked on the street by an EBT, so its not always about sheer size.

It's funny because we will all have different opinions based on our individual experiences. The vets/nurses I work with as well as most groomers I know loathe working on westies because they're wee toe rags. However I adore them, I have rarely been threatened by a westie. But I get the shivers when I get a collie on my table that gives me "the eye". Have had a few go for me over seemingly small infractions (pulling a wee knot out of their skirt is a big no no apparently). THe worst bite I've ever had in my professional career was from a shih Tzu who really meant it. But I do detest grooming Labs simply because they tend to act thick about manners, throw themselves about for no real reason. Have never been threatened or found any that have seen any real behaviour issues that weren't of the "throw themselves at you for no real reason" variety. Usually these ones were the type that come in with owners who think control is about putting them in a harness and a chain lead.

 

[Moobli]

I have never been bitten (yet!) but the only dog I have ever felt threatened by was a Rottie. Everyone's experiences will be different. Having owned and lived with working collies for many years I think I can read them quite well - but would probably trust an unknown lab over an unknown collie simply because collies are so much more reactive and sensitive than labs (in general).

 

[conniegirl]

We've had dogs all my life, normaly last chance saloon rescues, they either came right with us or were to be PTS. We've only failed once and that was with a Yorkie who was so terrified of everything she litteraly wet herself at the slightest noise. If your hands went anywhere near her or her corner then you were liable to lose a finger
We just could not get her interacting with anything or anyone, absolutely heart breaking watching her sit in a corner and shake, or huddle in the corner and pee herself if you had a conversation, god only knows what had been done to her.

I've only felt threatened a few times with dogs, one was a very strange spaniel that i'm now sure had spaniel rage syndrome, got a nasty bite to the leg from that and still have scars from it. Another was an alaskan malamute, it was a very dominant, very agressive dog and had no respect for anyone other that its male owner, the owners wife was utterly terrified of it, i have to say I was always very wary round it as it seemed one breath away from attacking everyone around it. third one is a local GSD who when walked is always on the lead but even on the lead (big burly guy on the other end) lunges, barks and growls at anyone within about 50ft.

I've been bitten (not nipped, had plenty of nips) by 2 dogs, the spaniel mentioned above and a golden retriever, though the goldie i would quite happily say was not a nasty bite and was under extenuating circumstances as the poor dog had been run over and in lifting it into my car to take it to the vet I obviously prodded, or grabbed somewhere on him that was very very sore (possibly his broken hip at the time), got a bite for my troubles but extenuating circumstances IMO and TBH the bite wound from it was not too bad at all, the dog has never even threatened to bite or nip in the 10 years since then (and he has been pretty much mauled by children).

 

[Alec Swan]

conniegirl, you've been through the mill it seems, but that's how we gain experience, even if it does hurt a bit! Considering your little Yorkie, such dread and fear of the world and a refusal to in any way interact is all so often a case of genetics I feel, rather than ill treatment. I'd bet that you've had dogs which have been poorly treated but with care and a confident approach, they do seem to come round, don't they? It never fails to surprise me just how forgiving dogs are, generally!

It's also true that some dogs and often for no apparent reason will react to a situation, it becomes embedded in their make-up and there's neither rhyme nor reason to their behaviour. I had a rescue collie bitch once, she was shy and sharp but she started to enjoy her work with sheep. I walked on eggshells with her and she was starting to make real progress, grow in confidence and I had high hopes for her. Then I introduced the stop-whistle to her and for reasons that I never understood, as soon as I blew the whistle, she'd fold up and refuse to have anything to do with sheep. She was, as I've said, sharp and would go for anyone who approached me. She wasn't safe with strangers and she loathed small children. Eventually I sent her off to heaven. I often think of Millie and wondered if I could have got round her problem. With me, she was a loving little thing.

Alec.

 

[conniegirl]

conniegirl, you've been through the mill it seems, but that's how we gain experience, even if it does hurt a bit! Considering your little Yorkie, such dread and fear of the world and a refusal to in any way interact is all so often a case of genetics I feel, rather than ill treatment. I'd bet that you've had dogs which have been poorly treated but with care and a confident approach, they do seem to come round, don't they? It never fails to surprise me just how forgiving dogs are, generally!

It's also true that some dogs and often for no apparent reason will react to a situation, it becomes embedded in their make-up and there's neither rhyme nor reason to their behaviour. I had a rescue collie bitch once, she was shy and sharp but she started to enjoy her work with sheep. I walked on eggshells with her and she was starting to make real progress, grow in confidence and I had high hopes for her. Then I introduced the stop-whistle to her and for reasons that I never understood, as soon as I blew the whistle, she'd fold up and refuse to have anything to do with sheep. She was, as I've said, sharp and would go for anyone who approached me. She wasn't safe with strangers and she loathed small children. Eventually I sent her off to heaven. I often think of Millie and wondered if I could have got round her problem. With me, she was a loving little thing.

Alec.

Calm quiet consistency seems to bring most of them right, that and ignoring unwanted behaviors (ones that are not dangerous) and rewarding wanted ones.
Over the last 20 years weve probably fostered around 40 dogs and kept around 10 of those as our pets.
As i said only ever failed with one.

The goldie that bit me is still with us, he is 17 years old now! Never again threatened to bite and an absolute angel with small children prodding and poking him, he just lies down, tucks his paws underneath him and lets them get on with it.

We were one of the last chance fosterers for a few breed rescues, taking the very difficult dogs. Yet the RSPCA doesnt think we are suitable for one of thier dogs??
We only stopped because mum is now retired and wants to travel the world.
We now have 3 dogs and as they pass they wont be replaced.
1 aincient goldie, 1 younger goldie who took to my dad so strongly that if separated from him for 24 hrs has to be coaxed into eating and a beagle who now he gets an appropriate level of exercise and discipline is an utter sweetheart but if he doesnt ger his walks is destructive

 

[Kaylum]

Someone at work their friend is going through this now. Dog bit postman, postman put a claim in, the dog owner didn't have insurance, the claim has now gone to court. If you don't defend the claimant automatically wins. They put in a defence so awaiting the outcome.

 

[aztec]

I'm not too sure what the 'vast minority' means,

Me either LOL, substitute small or tiny

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Hello, just looking for some advice please for a friend

her dog has bitten a delivery man, quite badly on his arm and you could actually see his bone

the dog is an Italian mastiff.

We know the law has changed on dangerous dogs on your own private property which is why we are asking for advice

the has signs everywhere saying do not enter, the delivery man (which we know are protected even more so entering private property) entered the property and the dog attacked him

the owner took the man to hospital, and called his workplace numerous times to check on him

she has now put preventative measures in place, i.e the dog is muzzled when outside, even in her private property and she has ordered kennels for him

the police came out to see her and took a statement, and as far as she was lead to believe it had been recorded and no further action was being taken

today she has received a letter from the court, being charged with "owner/person in charge of dog dangerously out of control causing injury"

it is clear that the person the dog attached is pressing charges, or the police if it is out of his control, which is all completely acceptable giving the dog did attack him

We would just like some advise on what may happen in court? could she be fined, or worse? could the dog be seized or would this have been done already if that was going to happen?

the owner is going to the solicitor today to get some legal advice

Please no nasty comments, the dog is a much loved family dog and hasn't bitten anyone before, but he is a protection dog and obviously this is heartbreaking for his owner

Putting a muzzle on it now is like shutting a door after the horse has bolted. Regardless of if the animal has bitten before or not or however gentle it is, a bite is a bite and to see bone that is serious. Really if the owner of the house is expecting a parcel and let's face it now you get told a day and a time slot. The responsible thing is to chain the dog or put it inside until the delivery is made, yes it is sad for the owner but I am with the delivery man on this and if it were my b/f or husband I too would insist on charges being brought on.

Not to mention the infection that can be caused by a bite down to the bone.

This time a adult but what if a child accidentally kicks a ball over the fence and goes to get it? Sorry but if you have a dog you are responsible for it at all times and put it in the house if your waiting for a parcel.

 

[YorksG]

This time a adult but what if a child accidentally kicks a ball over the fence and goes to get it? Sorry but if you have a dog you are responsible for it at all times and put it in the house if your waiting for a parcel.

I do wish that people would teach their children to stay out of other peoples property! We have ensured that no-one can access our yard, where the dogs can play, as we have dog and people proof fencing and a locked gate. We do still however get people, their children and dogs going into our fields, which have no public access. If people were taught, as children, to respect private property, there would be fewer incidents where people get bitten by dogs on their "own territory". In the case of people with legitimate access, then the only answer is to ensure that access can be gained without coming into contact with the dogs.

 

[Tiddlypom]

We have a secure dog proof garden, and locked and netted 4' high wooden farm entrance gates. The post box and illuminated door bell press are handily positioned just outside the gate, plus a note advising callers to ring the doorbell or sound their horn if they want us.

There's no need at all for for anyone to come into unsupervised contact with the JRT, who bustles round to woof importantly from his side of the gate if we do get callers. That doesn't stop some folk from reaching right over the gate to try and stroke him, or indeed to climb over the gate to try and get to the front door.

It seems ridiculous to install 6' high gates to protect intruders from coming into contact with a 1' tall dog, but maybe this is the way things are going.

 

[AmyMay]

Considering that a fully on control dog is facing a death sentence because of one persons stupidity, I would be surprised if the dog isn't ordered to be destroyed.

 

[Cecile]

Seems that rules vary depending on where you live

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-41420663

 

[Alec Swan]

Considering that a fully on control dog is facing a death sentence because of one persons stupidity, I would be surprised if the dog isn't ordered to be destroyed.

Perhaps sadly for the dog, it was owned by a person who neglected their duty of responsibility, so if it's taken from them and destroyed, then that's how it is. If a person is found to be drunk and driving a car without having paid road tax and they have no insurance, the chances are that the car will be taken from them and crushed. The owner of the dog and the owner of the car, are in the same boat, it would seem to me, both being forced to face their responsibilities.

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

Seems that rules vary depending on where you live

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-41420663

The owner of the dog was ordered to pay £1000 in compensation to his victim, he was ordered to do 200 hours of unpaid community work and the dog is to be muzzled when it's in a public place —— why wasn't there an order made to destroy the dog? Perhaps he claimed that he loved it!

Our Courts today, when deciding to fine those who have broken the Laws consider the ability of those found guilty and it seems that if you claim that you can't pay a fine, there's little point in considering the matter further. The husband of his victim quite rightly said that the guilty man got away scot free, or virtually so. I wonder if the poor victim will ever receive her compensation —— it wouldn't surprise me if she didn't.

There are times when our criminal justice system is a joke.

Alec.

 

[RunToEarth]

I do wish that people would teach their children to stay out of other peoples property! We have ensured that no-one can access our yard, where the dogs can play, as we have dog and people proof fencing and a locked gate. We do still however get people, their children and dogs going into our fields, which have no public access. If people were taught, as children, to respect private property, there would be fewer incidents where people get bitten by dogs on their "own territory". In the case of people with legitimate access, then the only answer is to ensure that access can be gained without coming into contact with the dogs.

It's the world we live in, you owe a duty of care to everyone on your property, whether they are invited or not.

 

[ycbm]

The owner of the dog was ordered to pay £1000 in compensation to his victim, he was ordered to do 200 hours of unpaid community work and the dog is to be muzzled when it's in a public place —— why wasn't there an order made to destroy the dog?

During my time as a magistrate I sat on one case where a dog destruction order was requested. During that trial, a Greater Manchester Police Officer said in evidence 'every dog is allowed one bite'.

The dog in question, an Akita/GSD cross, had previously bitten and the owners tried hard but did not convince us of their ability or willingness to control it in future, so we ordered that it be destroyed.

OP, if the dog is not already in Police custody, and your friend takes every possibly step to ensure that this can never happen again, I doubt a destruction order will even be applied for.

She should expect, quite rightly, to also face a Civil case for much more substantial compensation than the court can order, which her insurers, hopefully, will handle.