Dog attacking our chickens - what to do?

[Nosey]

Well during my childhood the technique that was commonplace was to tie the dead chicken round the hen killing dogs collar till it rotted & fell off! Was supposed to turn the dog right off the idea. Obv more suited to farm rather than indoor pet dogs!

 

[Coblover63]

Obviously some differences of opinion here So... all you dog trainers, in the interests of sharing knowledge, just how would you instantly reprimand and untrained dog that was attacking a chicken?

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Our hens are free roaming around the barn and stable yard out into the paddock, they've been there for about 5 years now. We've only lost 2 or 3 to foxes, so we've been very lucky.

New people moved into a property on the yard and their dog attacked and killed a hen about a year ago. I've caught him chasing them again this week and today he's attacked another one, which now looks very bald and like it's going to drop down dead.

What would you do?

Speak to YO about your concerns

.



Why should your birds be terrorised by someone who cannot keep their dog under control.

sorry but if someones dog was chasing my animals they would get 1 warning and say if it happens again , i reserve the right to take emediate action to eliminate the problem.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Obviously some differences of opinion here So... all you dog trainers, in the interests of sharing knowledge, just how would you instantly reprimand and untrained dog that was attacking a chicken?

I can't speak for anyone else, but there is a train of thought that a *temporary* period of discomfort for the dog, delivered quickly, fairly and without emotion/temper, is better than a chicken being *permanently* dead.
Or you could give the dog a biccie

 

[Jools2345]

I can't speak for anyone else, but there is a train of thought that a *temporary* period of discomfort for the dog, delivered quickly, fairly and without emotion/temper, is better than a chicken being *permanently* dead.
Or you could give the dog a biccie

love this and fully agree

 

[EAST KENT]

I can't speak for anyone else, but there is a train of thought that a *temporary* period of discomfort for the dog, delivered quickly, fairly and without emotion/temper, is better than a chicken being *permanently* dead.
Or you could give the dog a biccie

Exactly,the "meanest" option worked a permanent cure,not something I would normally do,but the circumstances offered no alternative.Moss was a great bitch,hard as nails,later in life she saw her job as guarding a new foal..no one except me was allowed near the field. One of her daughters guarded behind the grill of the local post office,such was her reputation ,one of her pups was a special request.The daughter was brilliant at her job,and a great family dog as well.

 

[YasandCrystal]

Well during my childhood the technique that was commonplace was to tie the dead chicken round the hen killing dogs collar till it rotted & fell off! Was supposed to turn the dog right off the idea. Obv more suited to farm rather than indoor pet dogs!

I wasn't going to mention it but hubby tied a dead chicken killed by his dog around her neck. She was very strongly reprimanded and then had to carry the chicken around her neck all day. She never killed another chicken and hubby is a farrier so she came across them at many yards daily.

 

[Bestdogdash]

Re: Dog attacking our chickens - what to do?

What to do? Simple. Attack the bloody dog, and mean it!

Alec.

Unbelievable....

 

[Bestdogdash]

Indeed.One of my collies thought it fun to get tighter and tighter circles around a bunch of hens ..pulling out tail feathers at the end of the game.I tried being mean,meaner and meanest..which entailed scruffing her and playing a tune on her ribs with my hunting whip...that last one worked.

Also unbelievable.... That this is an acceptable solution. If I only shout at my dog she thinks her world has fallen apart. Violence is completly unnecessary in training a dog to behave - it comes down to being top dog in the pack, and it only takes intelligence to do that. If I saw anyone beating a dog with a hunting whip I would immediately report them, and fund any legal prosecution that followed.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I have a setter who is 100% reliable around my chickens-have never used any force with him. However, anybody else's dog comes after my chickens they will get reasonable force used on them-it's not my bloody job to reason or train other people's dogs around my livestock (most of you would be up in arms about dogs chasing horses!).

 

[CorvusCorax]

Also unbelievable.... That this is an acceptable solution. If I only shout at my dog she thinks her world has fallen apart. Violence is completly unnecessary in training a dog to behave - it comes down to being top dog in the pack, and it only takes intelligence to do that. If I saw anyone beating a dog with a hunting whip I would immediately report them, and fund any legal prosecution that followed.

Yes, but that is YOUR dog. A dog who is not used to or designed to cope with pressure WILL fall apart when you shout at it. Other dogs have prey drives that are so high, they will suffocate themselves rather than let go of their prey if it is obstructing their air supply. It's a narrow view to assume all dogs are the same, a class full of human children don't all learn in the same way, why should we expect every single dog to learn in the same way?

As you have gone through your life, haven't you observed positive or negative consequences for your behaviour? Of course you have. So do dogs.

I wouldn't beat a dog with a hunting whip either but if I saw my dog heading towards and intending to eat another animal then yes, the consequences will be negative. Once the unwanted behaviour stops, then the dog's world becomes a much nicer place.
If the dog never learns about negative AS WELL as positive, how on earth does it know the difference.

 

[Bestdogdash]

Yes, but that is YOUR dog. A dog who is not used to or designed to cope with pressure WILL fall apart when you shout at it. Other dogs have prey drives that are so high, they will suffocate themselves rather than let go of their prey if it is obstructing their air supply. It's a narrow view to assume all dogs are the same, a class full of human children don't all learn in the same way, why should we expect every single dog to learn in the same way?

As you have gone through your life, haven't you observed positive or negative consequences for your behaviour? Of course you have. So do dogs.

I wouldn't beat a dog with a hunting whip either but if I saw my dog heading towards and intending to eat another animal then yes, the consequences will be negative. Once the unwanted behaviour stops, then the dog's world becomes a much nicer place.
If the dog never learns about negative AS WELL as positive, how on earth does it know the difference.

I actually do agree with all you say - the point I was trying to make was that it is never acceptable to beat a dog with a hunting whip.

My dog is an English Pointer and completely driven to follow a scent, so it wasn't so easy to get recall down to a tee nor to get her to stop chasing anything that would run. We live in sheep country though, so it had to be sorted. If a strange dog came after my hens it could certainly get a kick or something thrown at it - then a 'you cant let it happen again' chat to the owners - it is their responsibility after all.

 

[Clodagh]

As CC says it toally depends on the dog, both our labrador and lurcher are the sort of dog that if you roll your eyes at the and say 'tsk' they are very sorry. (Disclaimer: unless lurcher is already running in which case save your breath).
In the past we have had hard dogs though, one was a patterdale bitch, an adult, given to my OH to work. If she saw anything moving the red mist descended and you could shout til the cows came home and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. She was so hard she couldn't even be used for digging foxes and we had her PTS.

 

[Nikki J]

Obviously some differences of opinion here So... all you dog trainers, in the interests of sharing knowledge, just how would you instantly reprimand and untrained dog that was attacking a chicken?

I'm not a professional dog trainer, but with a dog that was not mine behaving in this way, I would do my best to block him from his prey to prevent the inevitable. This at my age isn't easy as I am no longer very nimble, but assuming I could get between him and the chickens I would shout "no" very loudly in a dominating way and if at possible catch him and take him straight back to the owners. I would not hit the dog, or physically reprimand him in any way, but the dog would be more than aware that he had been naughty from my body language and demeanour.

If it were my dog, then he would have the e collar put on him - as we had to do with Tai with our neighbour's feral chickens here in the village - and just 2 zaps, he now gives that area a very wide berth and if the chickens happen to be on the set-aside - or in their garden but the gate has been left alone - he totally ignores them.

 

[Nikki J]

I can't speak for anyone else, but there is a train of thought that a *temporary* period of discomfort for the dog, delivered quickly, fairly and without emotion/temper, is better than a chicken being *permanently* dead.
Or you could give the dog a biccie

Lol!! And a pat on the head!!

 

[Nikki J]

Also unbelievable.... That this is an acceptable solution. If I only shout at my dog she thinks her world has fallen apart. Violence is completly unnecessary in training a dog to behave - it comes down to being top dog in the pack, and it only takes intelligence to do that. If I saw anyone beating a dog with a hunting whip I would immediately report them, and fund any legal prosecution that followed.

Well said - as with horses, you do not need to train with violence. With our boy Ben, if you took a hunting crop to him it would be the very last thing that you ever did with your hands because you would most likely lose them. He has been badly treated in his life, and will not tolerate physical punishment. OH grabbed him once by the collar to take him outside because he had peed in our conservatory, and he got a bite for his pains - when he hadn't even hit the dog! If you actually hit him, you would be in big trouble and worse than that the 2 years of trust we had built up so that we can now do virtually anything to him without fear of a bite will have been destroyed for ever.

As you say, you need to be top dog in the pack, and we do that not by beating, kicking or hitting our dogs, but by being just that - top dog - so that they respect us, love us and want to please us.

 

[Nikki J]

I have a setter who is 100% reliable around my chickens-have never used any force with him. However, anybody else's dog comes after my chickens they will get reasonable force used on them-it's not my bloody job to reason or train other people's dogs around my livestock (most of you would be up in arms about dogs chasing horses!).

Yup, good point! Actually the chap who owns the chickens that Ben's father had was very reasonable about it, and when Tai also had a couple, because he said that they had escaped onto the set aside and it really wasn't the dog's fault, which I thought was extremely charitable of him. Had he thrown a stone at Tai, or beaten him with a stick, I would not have objected. He has every right to defend his chickens, even when they had escaped. It is my duty as a responsible dog owner to make sure that I have my dog under sufficient control to prevent such accidents happening - even when these stupid birds hide in the long grass so you don't know they are, but at the very last moment when you are just walking past them they leap up squawking "it's the woluf, it's the woluf" and run around like the headless chickens they are very shortly about to become! The owner wouldn't even accept compensation, which I thought was very good of him.

As for dogs chasing horses - my pet hate. My boys are brilliant with horses, but often horses can be nervous of them because of what they look like, so we always put them on their harnesses when we see approaching horses, and if the owners allow, we go up to say hello and the dogs love to kiss them and smell their breath.

 

[Nikki J]

Yes, but that is YOUR dog. A dog who is not used to or designed to cope with pressure WILL fall apart when you shout at it. Other dogs have prey drives that are so high, they will suffocate themselves rather than let go of their prey if it is obstructing their air supply. It's a narrow view to assume all dogs are the same, a class full of human children don't all learn in the same way, why should we expect every single dog to learn in the same way?

As you have gone through your life, haven't you observed positive or negative consequences for your behaviour? Of course you have. So do dogs.

I wouldn't beat a dog with a hunting whip either but if I saw my dog heading towards and intending to eat another animal then yes, the consequences will be negative. Once the unwanted behaviour stops, then the dog's world becomes a much nicer place.
If the dog never learns about negative AS WELL as positive, how on earth does it know the difference.

Excellent post - except you presumably are advocating the negative as being a physical negative, such as shaking by the ruff, whacking them over the nose with your hand, with a rolled up newspaper, or whatever means you choose.

So therefore your dog will associate your hand with negativity, with violence. Never, never, never should the hand be used to inflict pain on a dog or a horse unless in an extreme emergency and totally avoidable. There is nothing more unpleasant than a head shy horse, or rather a hand shy horse, and a hand shy dog. My daughter's chiahuahua is hand shy because she will smack him when he has done something she doesn't like, and I hate it. He flinches when you lift your hand up, and that is terrible.

Whereas my boys - who have the extreme prey drive that you describe - have been trained with an invisible "stick" that is completely disconnected from us, the beloved owners, in the dogs' minds - the e collar. Which many people will say is the height of cruelty, but the beauty of the e collar is that a little zap of static no worse than a child's game on their neck comes as such a shock to them - it is not pain - as they cannot understand how or why you can suddenly reach across 10's of feet and give them what is the equivalent of sticking a pin in. You become as a God, and it is kind, safe, reliable and extremely quick.

 

[Nikki J]

As CC says it toally depends on the dog, both our labrador and lurcher are the sort of dog that if you roll your eyes at the and say 'tsk' they are very sorry. (Disclaimer: unless lurcher is already running in which case save your breath).
In the past we have had hard dogs though, one was a patterdale bitch, an adult, given to my OH to work. If she saw anything moving the red mist descended and you could shout til the cows came home and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. She was so hard she couldn't even be used for digging foxes and we had her PTS.

A perfect candidate for an e collar, what a shame you had her PTS when literally within a few minutes you could have saved her. I know exactly what you mean by the red mist, once it descends there is NOTHING that will penetrate that - they go deaf and blind but totally focussed on whatever it is they are chasing. I say nothing - there is one thing, an e collar, a kind, humane, quick and simple solution.

 

[Jools2345]

A perfect candidate for an e collar, what a shame you had her PTS when literally within a few minutes you could have saved her. I know exactly what you mean by the red mist, once it descends there is NOTHING that will penetrate that - they go deaf and blind but totally focussed on whatever it is they are chasing. I say nothing - there is one thing, an e collar, a kind, humane, quick and simple solution.

i have agreed with you on some points of the e collars before as i have used one with success on one of my dogs, i however would/could not criticise in the way you have above.
also if feel an e collar is not God and will not stop every dog in its tracks/cure ever dog from it bad behaviour but i do believe that they have a place in careful hands. your above posts do come across a bit slap dash too, i.e chuck an e collar on zap the dog problem solved-they need to be used with care and caution and when they are they can be produce the required effect

 

[Nikki J]

i have agreed with you on some points of the e collars before as i have used one with success on one of my dogs, i however would/could not criticise in the way you have above.
also if feel an e collar is not God and will not stop every dog in its tracks/cure ever dog from it bad behaviour but i do believe that they have a place in careful hands. your above posts do come across a bit slap dash too, i.e chuck an e collar on zap the dog problem solved-they need to be used with care and caution and when they are they can be produce the required effect

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across so slapdash. You are quite right to correct me, you do need to know what you're doing. I use the word "zap" because "shock" implies an electric shock, which is not what a "zap" is, so I have learned that it is far less emotive to say "zap". Stim in fact is the correct word to use in dog training circles, but I feel that that somehow implies an electrical current, which is not what an e collar is all about.

We had a day training session with an expert e collar trainer and my husband has been in several long skype conversations with a chap in the States who works for Dogtra - I think his name is Lou Castle, but not sure about that. He has been most helpful in ironing out the crinkles, and as I say, we now have 2 mally crosses who can be safely let off the lead, even around livestock although we would not risk that just to be on the safe side and to be good, responsible dog owners.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Excellent post - except you presumably are advocating the negative as being a physical negative, such as shaking by the ruff, whacking them over the nose with your hand, with a rolled up newspaper, or whatever means you choose.

So therefore your dog will associate your hand with negativity, with violence.


You become as a God, and it is kind, safe, reliable and extremely quick.

I mean whatever the dog perceives as negative - a dog mentioned on this thread, collapses with a harsh word. It could be simply a release of tension on a lead, or it could be a physical reprimand. Whatever suits that dog.

A dog also associates the hand with the positive, with a stroke or the administration of food. I've used a bite roll to tap or apply pressure to a dog's flank to get it to turn a corner tighter. The same bite roll is used to reward the dog for focus and tight cornering.

The blessing and the curse with an e-collar, since you mentioned it, was that very often the dog will NOT link the correction to the human - they think that 'God' is doing it, it comes out of nowhere, it does not come from the human.

Also, re the Patterdale, you cannot say if an e-collar would have cured it - it may have laughed at the highest setting, such was it's drive.

 

[EAST KENT]

Hmm,glad to hear from all you dog experts.Moss would simply disappear on the farmyard and when discovered that was what she was doing.The alternative?A dead dog.I had no E Collar with a remote,my method worked.It works on erstwhile foxhounds too,their alternative is the bullet.would I do it again?If no E collar was to hand..absa-bloody-lutely.

 

[Nikki J]

I mean whatever the dog perceives as negative - a dog mentioned on this thread, collapses with a harsh word. It could be simply a release of tension on a lead, or it could be a physical reprimand. Whatever suits that dog.

A dog also associates the hand with the positive, with a stroke or the administration of food. I've used a bite roll to tap or apply pressure to a dog's flank to get it to turn a corner tighter. The same bite roll is used to reward the dog for focus and tight cornering.

The blessing and the curse with an e-collar, since you mentioned it, was that very often the dog will NOT link the correction to the human - they think that 'God' is doing it, it comes out of nowhere, it does not come from the human.

Also, re the Patterdale, you cannot say if an e-collar would have cured it - it may have laughed at the highest setting, such was it's drive.

I'm a bit confused by "bite roll" - what's that?

In the opinion of our e collar man who gave us a day's hands on training with our e collar, they very, very rarely fail - he personally has never had a failure, only ever successes. However, to give you the benefit of the doubt, if you know of failures, that I must accept, but certainly in our experience it has literally saved the life of my boy. He is a very intelligent dog which may account for the miraculous effect of the e collar, but when my husband first started training with the e collar, Ben would look at him as if to say "Cor blimey! How d'ya manage to do that mate? Right OK, I'll come toute suite!" Now on the very very rare occasion that Ben does not immediately recall - usually because he has espied a black labrador and thinks he should go and flatten it - just a very low level stim, and he immediately comes gallumphing back full of the joys of spring!

Re the Patterdale, I would personally try ANYTHING to avoid having my dog destroyed - even using something like an e collar, which to me was very distasteful. I was actually in tears over it, and begged my husband not to hurt him. Thankfully, he didn't need to - but even now, I hate it when he uses it. With my Ben it was that or have him pts as well, because you could never have kept him on a lead the whole time, it would have been cruel in the extreme unless we worked him in harness and we cannot afford a wheeled sledge, they cost a fortune.

 

[Nikki J]

Hmm,glad to hear from all you dog experts.Moss would simply disappear on the farmyard and when discovered that was what she was doing.The alternative?A dead dog.I had no E Collar with a remote,my method worked.It works on erstwhile foxhounds too,their alternative is the bullet.would I do it again?If no E collar was to hand..absa-bloody-lutely.

You did what you had to do at the time East Kent. Moss was a hobo, like a yellow lab that we had when I was a child. We had him pts - no e collars in those days!

 

[cremedemonthe]

I agree with CC, contact the owners and also say you want compensating, Ive no idea what point of lay pullets are, a fiver each ? more if they are a specific breed. Also after a shock like that it will put them off lay, not that they will be laying much in this weather but then they wont know that.

AND the rest!
I'm just about to buy some POL Maran pullets, range from £25 to £40 each, less for hybrids.I wouldn't tolerate any animal attacking my hens, I would attack the dog and mean it as Alec suggested.It wouldn't do it again.
I would also want compensating for the loss of birds.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'm a bit confused by "bite roll" - what's that?

It's a tug toy basically, but the point being, it can be a thing to apply pressure to the dog or it can be a super fun toy, depending on how the dog behaves.
The hand can give out pats or the hand can administer a correction - depending on how the dog behaves. A dog will not fear or be shy of something it gets a pleasurable experience from.
You can also give the dog a stim from an e-collar and then feed it, so the dog associates a correction with an immediate positive.

 

[Nikki J]

It's a tug toy basically, but the point being, it can be a thing to apply pressure to the dog or it can be a super fun toy, depending on how the dog behaves.
The hand can give out pats or the hand can administer a correction - depending on how the dog behaves. A dog will not fear or be shy of something it gets a pleasurable experience from.
You can also give the dog a stim from an e-collar and then feed it, so the dog associates a correction with an immediate positive.

Ah right, thanks for that, I think I have seen those - a bit like a mini cosh? I think I will stick to my e collar!

I still do not agree at all with using the hand as a tool of punishment as well as pleasure. I am not saying that this form of training does not work - I am sure in many cases it does, else clearly people would not use it - but it certainly would not work on my wolfie boys, and with Ben, you would end up getting bitten, to the detriment of the dog. If OH has had to give him a stim as a reminder that he expects him to come as soon as he is called, the dog is given huge praise - we personally don't reward with titbits, simply because our dogs are not food-motivated, or toy-motivated. With many northern breeds, especially those with a bit more recent wolf in them such as Czechs, Saarloos, they are really not motivated by food or toys, or actually even physical pats and praise - Ben's father Hal, our old wolf cross, couldn't give a stuff about titbits, being patted, or praised. He was Mr Aloof, the "cat" who walked by himself and only gave a damn about doing what HE wanted to do. He hated to be overtly patted or praised, but secretly and without wishing to lose ANY of his street cred, he liked to have his gracious accession to his owners' demands to be acknowledged!!

But for Ben, some lavish praise when he comes to you when called is all the reward he needs.

 

[Nikki J]

AND the rest!
I'm just about to buy some POL Maran pullets, range from £25 to £40 each, less for hybrids.I wouldn't tolerate any animal attacking my hens, I would attack the dog and mean it as Alec suggested.It wouldn't do it again.
I would also want compensating for the loss of birds.

Best keep my wolves well away from your brood, otherwise I'll be stoney broke then!!!

Joking apart, we are all entitled to defend our own in whatever means we think fit. When Ben attacked our next door neighbour's black labrador, the owner beat him continuously as hard as he could over Ben's back with his walking stick - fair do's, the bloke was only defending his dog. Not something I would have done, but each to his own.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Ah right, thanks for that, I think I have seen those - a bit like a mini cosh? I think I will stick to my e collar!

We personally don't reward with titbits, simply because our dogs are not food-motivated, or toy-motivated. With many northern breeds, especially those with a bit more recent wolf in them such as Czechs, Saarloos, they are really not motivated by food or toys, or actually even physical pats and praise.

Er, no, it's a tug, a toy, not a cosh. Why would I praise my dog by giving it a cosh?! I just touch him on the flank with him when we are turning a corner to remind him to get his ass around quickly, then, yep, pressure off, play with it.

Possibly straying off topic, but I understood the reason that GSD were bred into other breeds to create these types of dog was to create 'the best of both' and create a more trainable, biddable dog for work, border patrol etc, if the end result isn't motivated by the two of the main motivators used to train working dogs (even the rufftiest tufftiest police dogs are trained with a ball), then what was the point? Looks?