Dog attacks and public perception...

J

JenHunt

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I was on the train last week, travelling half the length of the UK (Aberdeen to York!), and happened to over hear a worrying conversation... it went something like this (i didn't hear the start..):

Lady1 " and we nearly got trampled by some cows, they ought to be fenced away from footpaths!"
Lady2 " I took the dog out last week for a walk, and we have to go through a couple of fields that have horses in sometimes, and theres one of the horses that always gallops over to us and tried to chase us out of the field, but it's ok because the dog nips at their heels until they leave us alone"
Lady1 " Oh, that's ok then, my dog is too frightened of horses to do anything, so I just have to climb the fence to get out as quickly as possible"

I sat there is stunned, fuming, silence as two mature ladies seemed to suggest that one of their dogs would attack (ok, nip at) a horse and they'd do nothing to encourage it!!! :mad:
 
I think it would be much safer for all horse people to assume that all non horse people have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE about how horses behave or are likely to react in any given situation.
 
Is that example really a dog attack though? As it sounds like the horse approaches them, then the dog bites back, as it were?

I have to say, I find antisocial horses in fields with footpaths going through them hugely irritating, and I am horsey, always have the dog under control on a lead and so on! If a walker was hurt by a horse kicking out or charging (and both have happened to me, when the horse came after us quite unprovoked), the horse owner would be liable - I wonder if horse owners always remember that?

No excuse for dog attacks, but I'm just not sure that this case really constitutes an 'attack'.
 
no I know it doesn't really constitute a dog attack, but who's to say that if the horses didn't move away the dog wouldn't have gone further?

If that was your horse, and it lashed out at the dog, and the dog then went further who's to blame? you for having a nosey horse or them for not pulling the dog away?

If the woman was not horsey, then how does anyone know that the horse didn't just amble over to see if she had polos?
 
Have to agree with Spudlet on the pushy horses issue. We have just had a situation in our village where two cheeky ponies (no malice, but cold, bored and a tad underfed) continually bullied walkers on the footpath through their field. The pony owner and the landowner were disinterested. Then the ponies bit two people. I got involved as I was an ex-bridleways person and the token village "riding oldie". I stuck up for the ponies as much as I could, told people what body language to adopt, how to try to deal with the pushiness etc. But villagers were downright scared. They often were not horsy, their terriified dogs would be tying themselves in knots on their leads round the owners' ankles, and the ponies were being very free with their heels. I walked through several times, at the request of villagers, both with and without my dogs, and all they said was true. I have one very old dog, who was simply horrified, lost her balance and fell over twice. My younger, feisty and large dog was scared, but lunged out in defence to the end of his lead. I did NOT term this a dog attack!

It ended with PROW being involved, and the owner and landowner had an Enforcement Order served on them. The ponies' nice paddock is now split in two, with electric fence protecting the walkers from the ponies, which is a nuisance for the owner. But a little consideration, thought and compromise earlier in the day would have saved a lot of trouble.
 
Well, I am playing devil's advocate and I don't know, of course. But on the other hand, what if it was a situation like the one we had, where my dog was at heel, on a lead, between me and my OH, and a horse pinned its ears back and charged? Now my dog would never square up to a horse, the gurt wuss, BUT if he was the kind of dog to stand up to that kind of thing - well, I wouldn't have blamed him, in that situation (and it would have saved me having to chase the damn thing off as well).

I'm just saying, I think calling this an attack is a bit inaccurate, and whilst obviously people shouldn't let their dogs chase livestock of any sort, at the same time horse owners should be aware of whether or not their horses are safe to be in fields with footpaths in them, both for the horses' sake and also for the sake of anyone they meet. Some horses just aren't.

As to who would be to blame, well in the situation you describe I would say a bit of both - I think the dog owner for not controlling their dog, but also the horse owner for turning that horse out in that situation, where the horse's nature means that it's being put in harms way.
 
I think its difficult, as horse could have been very pushy, bolshy and a PITA, or coudl have just been on the steal for some polos and attention - only a horsey person would tell the difference.

I don't enjoy walking through livestock/horse fields with my dog (who is off lead most of the time) and will put him on the lead so he doesn't start a 'game' with them - he doesn't attack, but after seeing him with our own horses (the little beggar!) he thinks the chase game is a LOT of fun :o

At the same time I struggle if the horses are interested in keeping the horses away from my dog, as having dog hating horses myself, I know how quickly a front leg can come up to get the dog - I pity any dog that gets loose in our field - unless its very fast! :eek:
 
Stencilface said:
I don't enjoy walking through livestock/horse fields with my dog
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Me neither! But if you plan a walk off the OS map (which we do fairly often) you can't tell what's in the fields until you get there, and sometimes there's no alternative route. I have detoured around fields with cows and calves in them (as well as one where it looked very much like a bull was in residence - the grass was quite tall and I wasn't about to get close enough to check its tackle - we went around that field!:eek:)
 
We have public footpaths through our current land and on previous land that we rented. I started out with 2 young ponies and 2 older, well behaved loan ponies on a rented 8 acre field with a footpath that cut across one corner for about 25 metres. Within weeks the two youngsters were mugging people for food and one of the loan ponies was literally picking dogs up by the back and throwing them. This came about purely because because people thought they had a right to walk through the whole field and brought bags of food to feed the pretty ponies, they also let their dogs chase the ponies, thinking it was highly amusing to see them 'playing together'. I caught one woman, at the opposite side of the field to the footpath, hitting out at the 2 young ponies who were crowding her and fighting each other because of the food she was pulling out of a carrier bag. None of these ponies had a problem when they went in that field, all were well mannered and well behaved and the bad manners came directly from people. We now have 14, pretty scary if they were all to start chasing dogs or mugging people as a herd, fortunately people tend to be a bit more sensible at this place, although they still think they have a right to walk wherever they want. If we were to fence off the footpaths I reckon the wire would be cut within hours going on the experience of the tenants on the land next door. Dog owners need to keep their animals under control and stay on the paths, horse owners need to ensure their horses are ok with people walking through. Were several horses together to take against a dog I would not hold out much hope for it, having seen one being chased by horses (not mine) that clearly wanted to kill it, had they caught it it would have been very quickly trampled. I have never seen horses behave like that since but it is something I have never forgotten and never want to see again - a completely different and very scary side to them!
 
To be honest, I think it's quite irresponsible of the landowners to put certain livestock in fields that have footpaths through them. I certainly would not want to put horses in fields where there was a footpath - I'd fence them off - as I just think horses are so naturally inquisitive but can also be downright nasty. It only takes a few well-meaning walkers to dish out the odd treat and then you've got horses making a bee-line for any walkers coming which can be pretty intimidating, especially if you are not horsey (even if you ae i wouldn't want several half tonne beasties bothering me).

Same goes for cows and young calves and cows in with a bull. It's just not safe IMO. All animals are unpredictable and it this litigious society it's not worth the risk mixing animals with the general public without supervision. Sheep are about the only animals that I think should be able to have 'free roam' where a footpath is.
 
I, too, would fence off any footpaths that went across my land. There aren't any because that was one of our criteria when we bought this place. When we were at livery, the land owner fenced off a footpath that crossed his field and the uproar from the local , mainly dog-walking community was unbelievable! They were all quite happy to walk along the tractor tracks that he fenced off round all his fields though, usually feeding the horses despite being asked not to.
 
ladyt25 said:
To be honest, I think it's quite irresponsible of the landowners to put certain livestock in fields that have footpaths through them. I certainly would not want to put horses in fields where there was a footpath - I'd fence them off - as I just think horses are so naturally inquisitive but can also be downright nasty. It only takes a few well-meaning walkers to dish out the odd treat and then you've got horses making a bee-line for any walkers coming which can be pretty intimidating, especially if you are not horsey (even if you ae i wouldn't want several half tonne beasties bothering me).

Same goes for cows and young calves and cows in with a bull. It's just not safe IMO. All animals are unpredictable and it this litigious society it's not worth the risk mixing animals with the general public without supervision. Sheep are about the only animals that I think should be able to have 'free roam' where a footpath is.
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you seriously expect farmers and land owners to fence off footpaths or not put their animals in their fields purely to keep dog walkers happy? the farm where i livery has footpaths all through it, if the farmer had to restrict where he put the cows he would not have enough footpath free land to keep the amount of cattle he does, therefore he would lose money, farm would be sold, houses built and your footpaths and up in the middle of a housing estate:rolleyes: if he had to fence the paths off it would make certain areas of the farm inaccessible to the cattle, again rendering half the farm unusable to anyone but dog walkers! perhaps if dog walkers kept to the paths and didn't wander all through the fields that they don't have access too and kept their dogs on leads as is advised around livestock then half the problems wouldn't arise!
 
Ibblebibble said:
you seriously expect farmers and land owners to fence off footpaths or not put their animals in their fields purely to keep dog walkers happy? the farm where i livery has footpaths all through it, if the farmer had to restrict where he put the cows he would not have enough footpath free land to keep the amount of cattle he does, therefore he would lose money, farm would be sold, houses built and your footpaths and up in the middle of a housing estate:rolleyes: if he had to fence the paths off it would make certain areas of the farm inaccessible to the cattle, again rendering half the farm unusable to anyone but dog walkers! perhaps if dog walkers kept to the paths and didn't wander all through the fields that they don't have access too and kept their dogs on leads as is advised around livestock then half the problems wouldn't arise!
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LOL, your reaction was identical to mine! Apart from having wire cut all over the place we would lose all our (horses) access to natural water supplies and have to physically move the horses into tiny paddocks rather than them having the run of their fields
 
I agree Dolce, horses act out from what they have been taught by humans, why cant everyone just follow the rules when it comes to animals, thats all animals. Keep your distance and mind your business.
 
I think its a very dodgy situation- not exactly a dog attack tho.
Opposite my OH parents place there is about 7 horses in the field with a foot path that runs across it. I have walked it both with and without my dog who is on short lead at heel. Even i feel in danger when these approach they are pushy and easy with there feet! My dog is a wimp who just hides behind me but my old dog would have been lunging at end of lead as he was protective of me. I don't agree with what those ladies said but it could maybe have been the only way to keep safe.
 
dizzydancer said:
Just a side point if dogs are kept on leads owners more likely to get injured- if a cow was threatening me id let the dog off- hes quicker and usually what there after!
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Dogs should be kept on the lead around livestock under normal circumstances BUT if the livestock charge you should let go of the lead at that point. This is the official advice to anyone walking through eg herds of cattle.
 
We have had a rottweiler attack our horse out on a hack a few weeks ago due to the owner not paying attention and the dog got off the lead. The lady then proceeded to shout abuse at my sister who fell off after Tessy charged forwards after kicking the dog. In that case i blame the owner but i believe when walking through field with Livestcok as a dog owner myself i always put my dogs on the lead as they have that natural instinct there as a predator. Regarding a horse bullying walkers and the horse charging at a dog on the lead i would definatly tell the council and get them to speak to the owner :)
 
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