Dog barking- help!!!

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littlen

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Today I had another complaint about my dog, threatening me with council action due to his excessive barking.

He is a 8 year old german shepherd whom I have had since he was 8 weeks old. He is a lovely dog in all respects with myself and my oh but he is very much a one family dog. He is wary of strangers and other dogs (a gsd trait i believe)

The problem is he barks whenever I am not home (I work full time, please no arguments about owning a dog and working full time, I am aware its not fair on him but 8 years ago my circumstances were very different and I wasnt to know I would have to leave him home alone. Also due to his age I would not rehome him, he is very set in his ways and hates chance)
Anyway, he usually starts as soon as he sees the dreaded postman and I have been told this continues for up to an hour. He will pace backwards and forwards barking and lunging at my garden fence. He will then bark at everyone that walks past the house and this continues all of the day until I return home.

He has access to outside at all times during summer as he lives in conservatory and its too hot in summer. In winter I shut him in so the problem is a little better as nobody can hear him as much! I always leave the radio on to help drown out the noise and we have blocked off the fence so he cannot see out, yet he still barks. We have also tried collars (citronella and noise) and squirting him with water, although this failed miserably as he does not bark when we are home so its hard to catch him in the act.
I also had a dog behaviouralist out who helped stop him barking, but the second we leave the house he starts and there is nobody to reprimand him so he does it all day. OH wont allow him in the main house either so I cant bring him in.

It has got progressively worse with numerous complaints over the past year from neighbours (I dont blame them, it would drive me mad!) and its unfair on them and ourselves as we dont want to cause problems between other people. It has come to a head with the final letter and OH has given me an ultimatum- sort him out or the dog goes.
I do work in a veterinary practice and therefore would not rehome him as I have seen what happens to the majority of older dogs that come through our doors, so it would be PTS if I cant stop him barking soon.
I cant take dog to work like my collegues as he is dog aggressive as I said and I would hate for him to bite a dog at work! I also cant take him to yard as dogs running free so that leaves him alone more and more!
I have also had the behaviourlist who works for the practice assess him and give some tips but those didnt work either! I also have looked into a dog walker but none in the area will take him due to his problems with other dogs, I assume they walk a few together? Plus he does not like strange people much and I wouldnt want a stranger in my house.

Has anyone got any ideas before I start concidering the options? I really love my dog and feel horrendus I am even concidering this, but I am not sure what else to do or where else to turn?
 
Have you got a local kennels that you could drop him to every day ? I know it would be an extra expense but it would seriously take the stress out of the situaiton. My OH mother runs kennels and she has several customers who drop their dogs off each day on the way to work and pick them up on the way home for the very same reason. If it was a regular arrangement and you fed the dog, you could discuss the cost with the kennel owners ??
 
Milliondollar- He is always muzzled when I know we will be near dogs. However he gets very edgy and wont settle around them or the volume of staff coming in and out. The dogs at work are all in crates next to each other during the day while we work and I have tried him before and he growled and snarled at the others all day. He also barked and paced his crate all day which annoyed everyone trying to do work/have a break etc and he growled at every member of staff coming in or out.
Shame really but my manager is not really happy about him coming back to work as he does create a bit of an atmosphere with the other dogs as they get agitated with him grumbling and growling. Also, it is a vets and he wont settle because of this either so I would rather leave him at home :(
 
gingerarab said:
Have you got a local kennels that you could drop him to every day ? I know it would be an extra expense but it would seriously take the stress out of the situaiton. My OH mother runs kennels and she has several customers who drop their dogs off each day on the way to work and pick them up on the way home for the very same reason. If it was a regular arrangement and you fed the dog, you could discuss the cost with the kennel owners ??
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ginger arab, its definatley an idea! I am not sure where exactly I could drop him though and he does stress himself out completley with all of the other dogs etc, but its something to look into!

Skippy, I have tried a number of collars. He takes no notice of any of them! He is so transfixed in getting to the postman/leaflet man etc he wont listen to anything!
 
Perhaps consider it as a short term option, going every day and being next to and not mixing and being able to fight with other dogs may also help him get used to a lot of other dogs around. A good kennel with good competent staff will really be albe to help.
 
This may be stating the obvious but how much exercise is he getting in the morning before you go to work? If you give him an hour or two of hard slog first thing then he may still bark but not necessarily with the same intensity / persistence. Would your OH accept him going into a crate in the main house (obviously only a solution if someone can let him out for a pee at lunchtime)? Or you could build him an outdoor kennel / run that "shrinks" his territory so he feels more secure while he is "in charge" in your absence.

ETA - the gsd mafia will no doubt be along soon to give you some much better advice :D
 
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You sound a bit on edge. If you're like this when you are around him and you pre-empt what he is going to do when he sees a strange dog or person, he will pick up on that and react in a more extreme way.
He is eight and so set in his ways, but the more you keep him away from other dogs, the more intense his reaction will be when he does see one.

Postman is a classic, think about it, every day the same man comes in the same van and comes right up to the door and sounds like he is trying to make an entry and the dog makes a fuss and gets angry and the man goes away again - to the dog, that is a Good Thing and when he comes back again the next day and the day after that the dog gets more angry and frustrated and the behaviour perpetuates.

I know he is eight and probably isn't as agile as he used to be, but what sort of exercise or mental stimulation does he get? He is not a monster, he sounds a bit bored and frustrated to be honest (he is alone, in a house all day, an active, working herding/guarding breed, they are a thinking dog), I'd see if you could look into a dog walker, pet-sitter or doggy daycare.
To be honest, the people you have sought advice off before, seem to have little or no knowledge of how to deal with this breed.
 
It sounds like boredom to me too. He's on his own all day, no stimulation whatsoever & and lonely. Try and sort out someone to go in at lunchtime & walk him. Put an advert up in your surgery asking for one on one walking. He sounds like he needs a damn good walk first thing & halfway through the day to exhaust him physically and mentally.:)
 
He certainly is no monster, he is a fantastic loving dog and I would have another GSD in a heartbeat if the situation was right...however he has made me nervous as he has attacked other dogs previously, unprovoked attacks, and I am terrified of him biting something and having to be PTS. Hence I dont put him in a position where he could bite or attack. I do muzzle him, but its not just biting, he will make alot of noise, hackles up and it intimidates people and I find it all very embarrasing to say the least. I am supposed to know how to control animals yet cant control my own, I am embarrased to take him to work as he behaves so badly compared to the other dogs.
Its not his fault though, its mine for leaving him all day but I dont really have any other option as I work full time now. Most of his dog aggression started after 2 dog attacks back to back which left him fearful, now he wont tolerate any dog in his space unless he is properly introduced. Ie, walked with said dog for a few days then I may trust him off the lead, but he will jump and harrass it to the point it will tell him to back off. Plus, not many people will lend me a dog to try with him anymore.

Im not on edge with him at home or anything, but I find on walks I am 'scanning' all of the time for potential hazards.

He is walked for about 30-40mins on the morning and the same at night, sometimes I take him to the yard when I know nobody else is about too. He is not as active as he used to be and tends to sleep most of the time when I am in (proberbly exhausted himself barking all day :))
He has plenty of distractions , endless toys ,kong, treat balls etc but he wont play with them. He also has a sensitive stomach so no treats allowed except his vet food, which he dosent bother playing with in balls etc.
Oh would allow him in a crate inside but I wouldnt be able to get back to allow him to go out for toilet or anything as I am an hour and a halfs commute away.

I have looked into kennels but cant find anything in my area, no daycare or anything and I dont want a dog walker in my house when I am not there :(
 
blazingsaddles said:
It sounds like boredom to me too. He's on his own all day, no stimulation whatsoever & and lonely. Try and sort out someone to go in at lunchtime & walk him. Put an advert up in your surgery asking for one on one walking. He sounds like he needs a damn good walk first thing & halfway through the day to exhaust him physically and mentally.:)
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Thanks! Having a think and I may approach my manager and ask about trying him at work again, problem being he would be crated all day 9-5 and I dont know if this is just as bad as him being at home really?
Manager didnt want him back but I suppose I could try and ask...
 
littlen said:
Thanks! Having a think and I may approach my manager and ask about trying him at work again, problem being he would be crated all day 9-5 and I dont know if this is just as bad as him being at home really?
Manager didnt want him back but I suppose I could try and ask...
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If he's crated at work, although not perfect, at least there will be activity & the opportunity for interaction with other people & dogs. You can then give him a walk during your lunch hour.
 
blazingsaddles said:
If he's crated at work, although not perfect, at least there will be activity & the opportunity for interaction with other people & dogs. You can then give him a walk during your lunch hour.
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True, I would like to take him, its just the problem of other staff not really being happy with him there. Also there isnt much room at the moment hence manager being funny about it. All I can do is ask I suppose! I will just complain about his barking and hope she offers...
 
littlen said:
however he has made me nervous

I find it all very embarrasing to say the least. I am supposed to know how to control animals yet cant control my own, I am embarrased to take him to work as he behaves so badly compared to the other dogs.

Im not on edge with him at home or anything, but I find on walks I am 'scanning' all of the time for potential hazards.
(
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You sound just like I used to be and he sounds just like my dog used to be.
Sod the embarrassment and put the nervousness in the bin.

YOU defend your unit, not him. This isn't his reasoning, not at all, but think about it like he is taking the mickey out of you 'she's just a silly weak girl, I'm going to look out for us both' - once you take the mindset, hey, NO, I'm the one who will look out for you and me, instead of being nervous and fearful and tense, which of course travels down the lead, be firm, be consistent and don't tolerate any silliness. I guarantee as soon as you become more confident, so will he.

I was at my wits end until I went to a good training club, breed specific. When someone told me it was ME that was facilitating the behaviour, unwittingly (another dog omigod tighten the lead reel him in panic panic dog EXPLODES - no wonder!) it was a lightbulb moment.
And me having had a GSD in my house since before I was bloody born and thought I knew all there was to know.

At the start he tried to fight with every other dog, there were some embarrassing times, some scary times but I went from having an unsocialised, aggressive 12-month-old male to a dog who attained his German traffic-safe companion dog qualification just a couple of months after his second birthday.
A puppy he tried to eat a few months earlier was the 'passive' dog who had to walk past him while he was tied to a post with me out of sight, he ignored the other dog.
He is by no means perfect and as you say a dog has to be introduced properly and he will try and throw his weight around (and will get a *******ing for it!!!) but he is now so much better and was a few weeks ago rolling around on the floor with a pair of youngsters.

He changed immeasurably when he was given a 'job' to do, even if that job was just a bit of basic training.

Your dog is a lot older and more set in his ways but he is not a lost cause, try and seek out a good working/breed specific club in your area (PM me your location and I will try to help) even if just to have a phone chat with one of the trainers.

We had a couple come with a seven year old male, a fighter, in a muzzle, a halti and a chain lead, he had broken the wife's finger trying to get to another dog. The trainer put the dog on a normal check collar and a leather lead, spent about an hour with them, and they never came back, because they never needed to, because they were given the right ideas by someone with a fresh pair of eyes and the RIGHT fresh pair of eyes.
 
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blazingsaddles said:
It sounds like boredom to me too. He's on his own all day, no stimulation whatsoever & and lonely. Try and sort out someone to go in at lunchtime & walk him. Put an advert up in your surgery asking for one on one walking. He sounds like he needs a damn good walk first thing & halfway through the day to exhaust him physically and mentally.:)
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I would think that mostly, you're right, with the possible exception of exhausting a dog mentally. Difficult!!

littlen, assuming that you travel to work in a car, could you not leave him there, in the car? Most dogs which are accustomed to travel, will happily view "their" car as a kennel. Cages, though others tell me that their dogs are happy within them, generally cause more problems, for the dog which is stressed.

Even though your dog has reached the age of 8 years, littleun, he doesn't sound as if he's too sure of himself. Poor boy. If he's a bit aggressive, whilst your at work, and he's in a "cage", then were I he, I'd feel just the same! What ever the size of your car, lay down the seats, and give him the back. Leave the wireless on. When you have your fag, or wee breaks, then go to him. Most dogs love the back of a car. It's because it's where the most unsure, feel most secure.

Good luck.

Alec.
 
Cavecanem thankyou, makes so much sense!
I am in the north east (durham way but also work in newcastle) and would love to find some kind of training group which could help!
 
CC, trust and confidence, from the point of view of the dog, go hand in hand. You will NEVER have one, without the other. We both know that.

Would you like that dog, for a week? Would littleun get a different dog back? Of course, and without doubt.

You can do it littleun, and you don't need external advisors. It's sometimes so easy to forget how the dog, himself, feels. We all do it (well I do!) no matter how clever we may think that we are!!

Alec.
 
I could take ten dogs home with me Alec, and there's one I dearly wish I could, because she would go back to her owners a different dog, I don't even know if she is still alive :( - but I wouldn't trust them not to ruin her again because they have been told, and told, and told again. And none of it was her fault.

Littlen, I know, is not like that, not a numpty, she has the right ideas and knows what she should be doing, just needs a shove in the right direction like I once did, her confidence will come and she will have a much happier dog.
 
CC, I hope that littleun hasn't misunderstood me. Wanting to do it is half the battle. Being able to, is the other half!!

You'll get their, littleun. It's largely a matter of confidence. That same confidence will be passed to your dog. You obviously have an enquiring mind. You'll get there, without question.

Alec.
 
This sounds all too familiar! My boss has 3 German Shepherds and they all bark, eveytime anyone walks past the front of the house, drives in to the driveway, goes to see the neighbours (lots of flats!)
We have complaints from an old woman, she is a bit of a busybody who moans about everything, we just have to try and shut the dogs in when we know people are coming or keep them busy!
One of the dogs sounds much like yours, he has actually gone for peole as he is a bit unsure of strangers however once we show him that the people are welcome he is fine.
Could you not get someone in like an experienced dog walking company to keep him occcupied for a few hours?
 
The poor mite is absolutly bored off his nut. I hope you get this sorted and I think your OH is right about rehoming him. You are worried about him going to a bad home but really, is his situation right now classed as a good home?
 
Will tell you a story.
Our little old lady neighbour and her family always used to complain about our old bitch barking. Always tutting and throwing comments over the wall.
When we told her she had died, she sighed 'I liked having IT there, IT always helped me feel safe!'

We now live in the middle of nowhere, happy days.

I don't want to minimise the suffering of anyone who suffers from nuisance barking, but when someone comes on to your property, you say 'I wonder who that is'.
When you're a dog, especially a dog who's instinct it to protect, to guard, of course you are going to bark 'Who is that? What are you doing? What do you want?'.
My dogs bark whenever someone comes on the yard, it's kinda one of the reasons we have dogs. Once introduced, once I say the person is OK, fine.
 
Dobby said:
The poor mite is absolutly bored off his nut. I hope you get this sorted and I think your OH is right about rehoming him. You are worried about him going to a bad home but really, is his situation right now classed as a good home?
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How many eight year old male, dog-aggressive German Shepherds would find a good home, do you think? Would you?
How do you think he would deal with a kennel block after living in a home with the same person since he was eight weeks old?
Sorry, shunting an aged dog is worse than having it PTS or having it at home alone all day IMO.

The OP knows the situation is not ideal and is trying to work to resolve it.
 
I jsut read the "don't want a stranger in my house bit" but Im affraid thats part and parcel of a dog walker unless he can be accessed through the garden?
OH has keys for all his clients, he collects them at dinner time and drops them back late afternoon, he never goes past the door, I can assure you, there is no need for him to venture any further into anyones house!

I think your only other option would be along the lines of what Alec Swan suggests a car or even better a "van" to take him to work and use your dinner hour to walk him, in my practice dogs are allowed in, but you are not allowed to keep them crated all day, they are in walk in kennels and have to be walked, I have a doggy van esp for the dogs much roomier for them.

Still if I can help jsut PM me.
 
We've had barkers in the past (one of them a GSD-X). For what it's worth, these were all things that helped.
1. Taking the dog to work and leaving it in the car, as Alec Swan suggested (but of course you have to make sure there's plenty of shade)
2. Another dog! Probably not the best thing for you right now, as you sound pretty stressed anyway, but it worked wonders - and ever since we've always had at least two dogs
3. Is there anybody who is, for example, unable to have a dog of their own but who would be happy for your dog to spend X hours a day in their home (paid for, of course)? This is much less stressful for the dog than being in kennels, and can work beneficially for both dog and minder. An old lady we knew used to do this. She couldn't walk a dog but she had a secure garden and I'm told the dog she looked after each working day and who had been a real problem, adored her.
4. Is there a valid reason why your OH won't have the dog in the main house?
I think you'd find he would be a lot more settled and comfortable
5 and finally. As others have suggested, find a really good trainer and take your boy to classes. No dog is too old to learn. Explain the "other dog" issues to the trainer - most of them have a Problems Class. We took on a rescue dog 3 years ago who was extremely agressive (because he is basically scared). He also barked non-stop at everyone except, strangely, the postman. I took him to dog training classes with the wonderful couple who've helped me with all our dogs over the last 12 year. the first night he would have liked to attack every dog in the room. Now have a dog who's more erlaxed in every way - and that includes the barking issue.

I do hope it works out for you.
 
littlen said:
Today I had another complaint about my dog, threatening me with council action due to his excessive barking.

He is a 8 year old german shepherd whom I have had since he was 8 weeks old. He is a lovely dog in all respects with myself and my oh but he is very much a one family dog. He is wary of strangers and other dogs (a gsd trait i believe)

The problem is he barks whenever I am not home (I work full time, please no arguments about owning a dog and working full time, I am aware its not fair on him but 8 years ago my circumstances were very different and I wasnt to know I would have to leave him home alone. Also due to his age I would not rehome him, he is very set in his ways and hates chance)
Anyway, he usually starts as soon as he sees the dreaded postman and I have been told this continues for up to an hour. He will pace backwards and forwards barking and lunging at my garden fence. He will then bark at everyone that walks past the house and this continues all of the day until I return home.

He has access to outside at all times during summer as he lives in conservatory and its too hot in summer. In winter I shut him in so the problem is a little better as nobody can hear him as much! I always leave the radio on to help drown out the noise and we have blocked off the fence so he cannot see out, yet he still barks. We have also tried collars (citronella and noise) and squirting him with water, although this failed miserably as he does not bark when we are home so its hard to catch him in the act.
I also had a dog behaviouralist out who helped stop him barking, but the second we leave the house he starts and there is nobody to reprimand him so he does it all day. OH wont allow him in the main house either so I cant bring him in.

It has got progressively worse with numerous complaints over the past year from neighbours (I dont blame them, it would drive me mad!) and its unfair on them and ourselves as we dont want to cause problems between other people. It has come to a head with the final letter and OH has given me an ultimatum- sort him out or the dog goes.
I do work in a veterinary practice and therefore would not rehome him as I have seen what happens to the majority of older dogs that come through our doors, so it would be PTS if I cant stop him barking soon.
I cant take dog to work like my collegues as he is dog aggressive as I said and I would hate for him to bite a dog at work! I also cant take him to yard as dogs running free so that leaves him alone more and more!
I have also had the behaviourlist who works for the practice assess him and give some tips but those didnt work either! I also have looked into a dog walker but none in the area will take him due to his problems with other dogs, I assume they walk a few together? Plus he does not like strange people much and I wouldnt want a stranger in my house.

Has anyone got any ideas before I start concidering the options? I really love my dog and feel horrendus I am even concidering this, but I am not sure what else to do or where else to turn?
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Our beagle bitch (pictured in siggy) who is now ten had problems about 8 years ago with a similar problem. She would instead of barking, tear the house apart when she was left alone despite my OH visiting her at lunchtime and walking her before work and leaving her with plenty of toys and things to chew like bones, etc. He actually lives on site where he works but he couldn't let her roam around with him at work as his work involves horses and large machinery such as tractors so it was impractical. The solution for us came in the form of a cat flap in the back door which allowed her to come and go as she pleased. This ended the monotony of being stuck indoors with an owner who worked (I do recognise your problem) and therefore broke the destructive cycle. We had got through two three piece suites, a number of chair and table legs and wallpaper to get to this point. She would climb onto the kitchen counter and knock things off and manage to open a cupboard and we'd come home to the contents of cereal packets scattered across the floor of the contents of the rubbish bin in the kitchen. It was a desperate situation and before this we had considered resorting to crating her during the day. I do realise that a German Shepherd would need a large cat (or dog) flap but surprisingly pet shops do sell large flaps. If you were worried about security with this dog flap you could invest in one by which the dog needs to have a collar on to gain access. This one off ebay for example is suitable for dogs up to 45kg (100lbs), e.g, German Shepherds, Boxers, Retrievers, Doberman, Rottweiler & similar.


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-STAYWELL-...1?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&hash=item255dcbbf75

I do think if your dog was able to come and go as he pleased he might not have time to think about barking as he would be stimulated by the outside world. However, of course it may be that he would just be barking outside the property instead of inside, but you would have to see. If this is your only alternative to having him PTS if might be worth investing in buying one. Good luck xx
 
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