Dog behaving very old before her time - usual vet checks OK - suggestions?

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Polos Mum

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We have a 6 y/o collie x JRT x bearded terrier who we have been in and out of the vets with for 18 months now - with no success - hence any suggestions or further options really welcome.
This started 18 months ago when we lost our older lab who she had grown up with. She started itching her back (having never itched before) - tearing all the skin off and her skin was very tight and she was sore all over. Initially treated as food allergy for at least a year with changes in diet and steroids and tonnes of other drugs. Fish and potato diet.
She had all sorts of blood tests - all of which were clear (I thought liver because of where she was clawing at herself )

She is marginally less itchy now - mostly because we tell her off when we catch her at it :( but still always has bits of skin missing

She looks sad, she sleeps all day other than walks, she craves heat, moving from a bean bag right next to a radiator and the fire. We have had a new companion for her (she was only about 3 weeks on her own), she plays a little.

If she was 14 I would accept her behaviour as old age - she potters around and is OK. but it's not right for a dog her age. We had her from 12 weeks so I'm sure of her age.

Anyone experienced anything similar or any suggestions as to what else the vets can look for, they have run out of ideas and just want to give her steroids when the skin gets too bad each time.
 
I have a bitch with multiple allergies. She is treated with a daily dose of Apoquel and has now been itch free and happy for years. If you decide to use Apoquel, buy it online with a prescription from your vet, much cheaper. We had tried everything (diet, immunotherapy, baths and ointments, getting rid of all carpets in the house, wiping her paws after walks) with very little success before. She has experienced no side effects from the Apoquel.
 
Clodagh said:
Has she been blood tested? Thyroid? (That’s real James Herriot books diagnosis!)
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Yep when this all started she had full bloods all of which were normal - I was really surprised. I demanded a re-test about 12 months ago when she went down hill again - these too were all clear. it was 'normal' vet bloods - I would have thought thyroid would be included in that but I will double check.
 
planete said:
I have a bitch with multiple allergies. She is treated with a daily dose of Apoquel and has now been itch free and happy for years. If you decide to use Apoquel, buy it online with a prescription from your vet, much cheaper. We had tried everything (diet, immunotherapy, baths and ointments, getting rid of all carpets in the house, wiping her paws after walks) with very little success before. She has experienced no side effects from the Apoquel.
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Thanks - unfortunately I don't think it is itching that's the cause. Her 'old age' behaviour is causing the most concern to me at the moment. This is a great suggestion to address the symptoms and I'll give it a go the next flare up.
 
Sandstone1 said:
I would not be telling her off for scratching, you can distract her but telling her off will only stress her out more. Have you thought of getting another dog? May be she is missing her friend.
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I do feel bad about telling off but she will tear off her skin on the kitchen chair I'm sitting so it's hard to ignore. You are right - it's not helping.

She has a companion - we got a new pup within 2 weeks of losing the old boy. She constantly looked out of the door and window from him and broke us. She gets on well with him.
Interestingly we bought the body of the old lab back from the vets to bury - we thought it best to let her see him - which we did. When we put him in the big hole we dug, she jumped in and tried to pull him out - she clearly didn't understand at all. It was terrible to watch.
 
Polos Mum said:
I do feel bad about telling off but she will tear off her skin on the kitchen chair I'm sitting so it's hard to ignore. You are right - it's not helping.

She has a companion - we got a new pup within 2 weeks of losing the old boy. She constantly looked out of the door and window from him and broke us. She gets on well with him.
Interestingly we bought the body of the old lab back from the vets to bury - we thought it best to let her see him - which we did. When we put him in the big hole we dug, she jumped in and tried to pull him out - she clearly didn't understand at all. It was terrible to watch.
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?
 
As youve given her a new playmate, had tests -and still no change - id switch to grainfree wetfood. Zooplus.co.uk do loads of grainfree wet foods. They all have a high % of at least 70’% real meat protein. Switch over to this slowly to avoid bowel distress.
Fish and potato is limited nutrition longterm.

I switched my dogs and cats over, due to skin issues, other health niggles, and theyre doing very well. I add salmon oil fo/r extra omega 3.
one dog at 7yrs got lymphoma too, which also prompted the switch to completely grain free. he should have only lasted 2 yrs, but 7 yrs on, he‘s still with us and doing well considering. My cats look incredibly well on it too.

Many commercial feeds are pre-formed protein, gluten lumps or soy, and lots of cheap grains for bulk, with meat derivaties for flavour of only 4-8%. Its uttely criminal the industry produces such ‘food’ for animals.
 
Willow aged 6 years in 24 hours when she was spayed thought it was just a recovery period but she never bounced back. She was like a nutty puppy before and an old dog almost immediately after. She never got her bounce back. She tries sometimes but gives up really quickly
 
She’s possibly worn out from itching maybe. If you think about it from her perspective, she itches almost constantly but every time she scratches the itch, there is pain. It must be exhausting, just like it is for severe eczema sufferers.

What are your objections to medicating with steroids? A low dose may make a massive difference to her condition. Yes, there are side effects to steroid use but they’re not the end of the world and you have to ask yourself what’s the lesser of two evils.

One of my dogs has been on prednisolone for three years now and is still fine and doesn’t have any adverse side effects from the steroids.
 
Does she play a lot?

Parent's Yorkie is 13 (so admittedly getting on a bit), but he went really flat when his eyesight started to go. We thought it was age related, but he's really perked up with some new toys over Christmas. Squeakers to be removed (and hidden when he realised we were putting them back in...) and a ball that makes duck noises as it gets rolled around have cheered him right up. I think he was bored because he couldn't really play with any of his old toys.
 
I would ask for a referral to a dermatology specialist in the first instance, and potentially a general medicine specialist too/next. One of our dogs aged in a similar way with really awful allergy related ear problems, and a dermatologist was the answer. Good luck x
 
I'm thinking it's psychological. Can show in the oddest physical ways.

Does the play mate interact in a similar way to the lost dog? Do you get out to places where the dogs can do things and form new memories and bonds?

I'd try going gain free, so the physical is dealt with as far as possible, and both a behaviourist, a communicator. and a reiki practitioner.

Good luck.
 
I had a dog with very bad skin and it was awful. He was allergic to a lot of food but also there were so many things that weren’t food. Grass was the biggest thing but there were many more, sometimes I never knew what had set it off. My dog was on steroids and something else which I have forgotten. I also sometimes used over the counter antihistamines as needed. I used the steroids as and when they were needed, and if that was everyday for a while then that was what he had. My vet said it may shorten his life being on steroids long term but he died at nineteen so it obviously didn’t impact significantly on his life span. It is quality of life over quantity though isn’t it. I was told that most skin/ allergy problems start after the age of three and that a stressful situation could be the trigger. This started back in the early nineties so the thinking on all of this may have changed. I did try the food exclusion diet but I had no success with it. Things I did do were washing his bedding in dermatological soap liquid. I also had to wash floors with washing up liquid ( Ecover or similar), if I used anything stronger it would set him off. It’s no life for a dog being constantly itchy to the degree that they make themselves bleed, I sometimes wish I’d been braver. Good luck with your dog , I don’t envy the journey you are on with them. The frustration with not having answers is horrible. I would push for a referral/ more tests.
 
Amymay In A Manger said:
Have they done a skin scrape for analysis?
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No - but the itching is very localised to the top of her back - not her feet / armpits and her ears are clean and not itchy - hence the thinking that it's stomach related as mites / fleas etc usually more underneath

She's white underneath an nothing to be seen - she's also had regular Bravecto (I think that's the spelling) which I'm told should kill all skin nasties
 
I have had great success with this company's product Leaks No More (for incontinence in elderly dogs) it's amazing stuff.

This might be worth a try?
 

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cobsinblankets said:
Could it be grief?
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MrsMozartletoe said:
I'm thinking it's psychological. Can show in the oddest physical ways.

Does the play mate interact in a similar way to the lost dog? Do you get out to places where the dogs can do things and form new memories and bonds?

I'd try going gain free, so the physical is dealt with as far as possible, and both a behaviourist, a communicator. and a reiki practitioner.

Good luck.
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EllenJay said:
Or a reiki practitioner. Sometimes when conventional medicine fails it's worth trying something else.
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We have tried so many physical things I am really starting to think it is grief/ psychological. I think this may be the case. She was the best she was when we were on full lockdown and every day was identical, none of us left the house and nobody came in.

How to help is the hard part if that's the case
 
ester said:
Internal medicine given the behaviour changes, dermatology if they find nothing.
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Thanks I'll speak to the vets again - they think I am being difficult because I won't just give her steroids and accept she is truly miserable all the time (steroids make her desperate for food and incontinent which she knows is wrong in the house - on top of the already miserable outlook)
 
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