Dog bite

[ponyparty]

Someone I know has posted on FB to say she was bitten by a dog whilst out running. The owner pulled the dog to the side of the path to allow her to run past, and as she did so, the dog - a GSD - lunged (whilst still on the lead) and bit her thigh. It has left a huge bruise and a small puncture mark, for which she thankfully doesn't need any medical intervention. If it hadn't been on the lead, it would have been a damned sight worse.

She was so flustered (and terrified), the woman apologised and she just wanted to get away from the dog so carried on running without getting any details.

I advised her to report this incident to police, in case the woman/dog were already known to them, or in case anything else happens, or in case they can find her and have a word/insist it is muzzled in public places in future. She spoke to a policeman who visits her workplace, who has told her that, as she didn't get the woman's name or address, and there was no CCTV, there's nothing they can do.

If I were that policeman, I'd have at least been taking a description and logging it. Apparently it happened near a kennels so I would perhaps make an enquiry there, or go back to where it happened at the same time the next day, as people often walk their dogs at the same time. I know the police are overstretched but I think this is quite serious. Am I being unrealistic? I just think it's a bit of a crap response. What if it had ripped her leg half off, would the response be the same then? I think not. I told her to log it via 101 anyway just so there's a record, in case, god forbid, it happens again to someone else.

I hope the owner in question was absolutely shocked and terrified and will muzzle it in future anyway, but you never know, enough idiots out there aren't there!

I have also advised this person that, if there is only one way past a dog, up close (e.g. canal towpath or somewhere there is no alternative path) then to slow to a walk and not make eye contact with the dog as she passes. I feel that running at speed, in close quarters, towards/past any dog (perhaps particularly a herding breed?) could trigger such a reaction, I've certainly seen dogs lunging at cyclists on shared pathways. I'm no expert though, I'm second guessing myself now, it's just what I would do in that situation - any better ideas?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

She could also ring the dog warden. And no, the dog should NOT have bitten her and the owner should have taken steps to avoid it doing so but runners need to be aware that running past a dog could cause a problem. The owner should, of course, have asked her to walk past and stood between the dog and the passerby to keep everybody safe.

 

[bonny]

She could also ring the dog warden. And no, the dog should NOT have bitten her and the owner should have taken steps to avoid it doing so but runners need to be aware that running past a dog could cause a problem. The owner should, of course, have asked her to walk past and stood between the dog and the passerby to keep everybody safe.

I don’t agree with that advice at all, I live near a busy towpath with a lot of runners and cyclists and no one would get anywhere if everybody Had to walk past dogs in case they bite. You shouldn’t be on a busy path with your dog if you have so little control or if the dog is liable to bite simply because someone is passing. I’m not surprised at the police response btw, shame the injured party didn’t have more details....

 

[Equi]

I must be very stupid or very used to dogs going at me (worked in kennels most my youth) but this would not bother me or at least i would have been watching the dogs body language more and avoided this entirely. Dogs are dogs and certain breeds are very protective idc what anyone says about "owner not breed" some breeds are just as they are. I think everyone expects dogs to all be the same...well they are not. I treat each dog as i see it, but i also in my head have their breed trait in mind....so don't run away from a guard dog!

 

[ponyparty]

Yeah, this person is not really a dog person, has never owned a dog, and wouldn't know about breed traits or dog body language... Which is why I felt I had to say something about passing dogs whilst running; for her sake and the sake of others commenting on her thread.

Indeed I do agree with bonny that the dog should not even have been on such a path if likely to do that, and/or should have been muzzled or in a halti or similar so the owner had better control. You never know, it could have been from the nearby kennels and the person walking it didn't know that the dog had such tendencies. I also do agree that with such a lack of detail the police would have a hard job doing anything; I wouldn't just ignore such a report though, if I were the police officer in question! I hate this argument but "it could be a child next time" (or any other person) and have worse consequences :-/

 

[ester]

Getting bit by a GSD would bother me a lot.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I must be very stupid or very used to dogs going at me (worked in kennels most my youth) but this would not bother me or at least i would have been watching the dogs body language more and avoided this entirely. Dogs are dogs and certain breeds are very protective idc what anyone says about "owner not breed" some breeds are just as they are. I think everyone expects dogs to all be the same...well they are not. I treat each dog as i see it, but i also in my head have their breed trait in mind....so don't run away from a guard dog!

there's an awful lot of the public who have no idea about what breed of dog is what, they don't need to know if they don't want to and they should be able to run on a public path without fear of being bitten-the dog is the owner's responsibility and noone else's. If your dog is liable to bite someone who comes a bit close stick a damn muzzle on it.

 

[Goldenstar]

Never ever run past a dog in that situation.
I would report to the dog warden but without any information I am not sure what the police could do .

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I don’t agree with that advice at all, I live near a busy towpath with a lot of runners and cyclists and no one would get anywhere if everybody Had to walk past dogs in case they bite. You shouldn’t be on a busy path with your dog if you have so little control or if the dog is liable to bite simply because someone is passing. I’m not surprised at the police response btw, shame the injured party didn’t have more details....

My dogs wouldn't lunge at a runner because they have been trained properly and also wear fig 8 leads round their noses but, as this runner has just found out, it is always sensible to walk past dogs, rather than run. I have to say that most of the runners I see round here would get wherever they are going faster if they simply did a brisk walk. IMO runners shouldn't be running on busy paths, as they will either have to keep dodging other users or knock them over.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I would advise the woman to always slow down and walk past dogs. As a lone woman, I feel threatened if someone runs towards me or from behind. Dogs are the same.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

IMO runners shouldn't be running on busy paths, as they will either have to keep dodging other users or knock them over.

where do you think runners should go? dog owners, the most entitled people on the planet!

 

[AmyMay]

dog owners, the most entitled people on the planet!

Yep, along with horse riders.

 

[TheresaW]

Bo is not happy being walked on a lead, and will lunge at someone getting to close to him. I cannot honestly say that he wouldn’t bite someone given the opportunity. I am well aware of this, so as much as possible, we go where he can be off lead, he comes to call immediately and will sit by me if we see people.

On the odd occasions where do a lead walk, partly for training, sometimes due to a time constraint, I take him somewhere as quiet as possible and usually very early in the morning. I have some of his breakfast in my pocket, and when we do see people, I make sure he is as far away as we can possibly get for the person to pass safely, and will keep his attention on me until they have passed. He will then get his “treat”.

 

[twiggy2]

I must be very stupid or very used to dogs going at me (worked in kennels most my youth) but this would not bother me or at least i would have been watching the dogs body language more and avoided this entirely. Dogs are dogs and certain breeds are very protective idc what anyone says about "owner not breed" some breeds are just as they are. I think everyone expects dogs to all be the same...well they are not. I treat each dog as i see it, but i also in my head have their breed trait in mind....so don't run away from a guard dog!

It would bother me if I was bitten by a dog when out running, not everyone has or wants to have any knowledge about dogs breeds, body language and breed traits. Why should they have to have it, the person on the end of the lead should have that knowledge as well as knowledge about the individual dog they are walking. If the dog has a tendency to get uncomfortable in that sort of situation then it should not be put in it.
I used to walk a gsd, he was a yard guard dog where I lived and had a great nature, if runners or cyclists came too close he would jump out at them given the change-he did not bite them though, on road walks he would be on a short lead, curb side and walking into the traffic so I could see what was coming and keep him under control- that was my responsibility not passers by.

 

[ester]

Yep, along with horse riders.

I thought it was supposed to be cyclists

I expect the owner of any dog to be able to stop them from biting me if I am not having any interaction with it, regardless of my speed of travel. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Yep, along with horse riders.

people don't get to be precious up here-all paths are shared by everyone. but imo the person who is out walking with the potential bitey thing is the one who is responsible for it.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Pet dogs are a part of our society and everyone is likely to encounter a dog at some point, therefore it's sensible to have some awareness about passing or petting a strange dog, purely to keep safe, much in the same way children are taught about traffic and crossing the road.
We live on a small, crowded island. Everyone has an equal responsibility to be courteous and prudent on paths. That includes runners, dog walkers, horse riders, cyclists and families walking with little tots on bikes.
Just be nice, slow down, make room and say hello. It'll lessen the dogs anxiety and everyone will stay safe. Joggers have to slow down when crossing roads so they don't get hurt, so it's no big deal to slow down for other users. 4 seconds on a run is nothing.

 

[ponyparty]

Whilst I do agree that you shouldn't HAVE to slow down to pass a dog - the owner should keep it under control - clearly, (some) people do not keep their dogs under control, and I personally would choose to slow down or avoid altogether, because I don't trust idiot people and their untrained dogs :-/ yes the responsibility absolutely lies with the owner if their dog attacks, but I'd rather reduce the risk of it happening in the first place. It seems common sense to me.

I just hope this scared the crap out of the woman walking the dog and she has now taken responsibility herself and will keep it muzzled.

 

[teddypops]

The dog should not have bitten, but everyone should take responsibility for Themselves whatever the situation as you cannot trust the other people to do so!

 

[CorvusCorax]

I try not to think 'if XYZ had happened'. It didn't. Police can't investigate things that haven't or might have happened and officers don't have time to hang around dog walking routes or visiting kennels. Might be more of a case for the council/dog warden as mentioned above and a bit of social media 'awareness-raising'.

As a generalisation, dogs that make a lot of noise, lunge and make a half-mouthed bite are not 'guarding' or 'being protective', they are generally insecure and want the scary thing to go away.
A confident, secure dog knows what is a threat and what is not. Dogs that are bothered by joggers, cyclists, etc minding their own business, are not very brave at all IMO.
Unfortunately the behaviour has probably now been reinforced by the fact that this lady kept running, so the dog now likely thinks 'scary thing approaching, lunge and make contact, scary thing retreats, result'.
But yes, it's up to the handler to read the warning signs and not put the dog in that position in the first place, not the innocent passer by.
I have been in the position where I have encountered a dog that I did not want to engage with, but I don't expect Joe Public to start noticing ear set, tail set, eyes, hackles, etc etc etc. That's what the owner or handler should be looking at.

 

[sportsmansB]

This is serious though as an adults thigh is about the same height as a 3 or 4yo child's face. The dog may do this all the time, it might not have been her running past which caused it.
Unfortunately, we can't rely on people to have any common sense at all so expecting the dog walker to put it in a muzzle from now on is not a given either.

Not sure what she can do with no details at all other than inform dog warden of breed, description, location and time and see if they are interested enough to try and track them down. I know I walk my dog in the same place every day at the same time, and many others are the same, so they might be easy enough to find.

 

[twiggy2]

I have family members, my mum being one who has not the first idea about dogs, she is not scared of them but with few exceptions does not really like them.
Why on earth should she educate herself with regards to dogs?
If your dog has issues deal with them but don't expect the world and his wife to.
I say this as a dog trainer amd owner who is concerned that unless owners take responsibility for their own dog/s we will end up not being able to take them out to public spaces.
My young dog has the potential to be sharp and I am convinced she would love to hurry people along with a nip at their heels, in public spaces she in not put into a situation that this would be possible-my dog my responsibility.
That said we don't know the whole situation on this runner being bitten, it may be the first time the dog has reacted in this way.

 

[ponyparty]

CC, I had actually started typing another reply and got sidetracked:
"In fact perhaps not even just untrained dogs with idiot owners - perhaps genuinely shocked/frightened dogs that have turned just in time to see a stranger approaching them at speed and have done the only thing they know how to in that situation. Not excusing it in the slightest, a bite's a bite no matter what the reason, all the more reason to take preventative measures though."
Think we're kinda saying the same thing there. Though I hadn't considered the effect on the dog, of her just carrying on running, reinforcing the behaviour!
And yes, no point saying "if xyz had happened" I know - the fact is it DID bite her though. Just because it didn't completely savage her, it's still a bite. The bruise is enormous and it has punctured the skin, only a small amount thankfully.

Yes it could have been a first offence for the dog, I hope so and that the owner has something about her and takes action to prevent future incidents.

Responsibility definitely lies with owners of dogs... I do still think it's common sense to approach any animal with caution though.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Dogs only do what they believe is in their best interest or improves their position in life.
If a dog perceives a threat, they lash out at it either physically or verbally and almost every time, the threat retreats. It happens every day when the postman comes. The intruder comes, the dog barks, the intruder leaves.
If a dog growls, we back away.
If a dog bites, we recoil/retreat. The dog is put away (in their heads, to a place of safety).
They believe it works for them, so they continue to do it.
Accidental reinforcement is one of the biggest training problems there is and most people don't even realise it's happening.
Dogs don't know how big or small they are, a GSD can be just as scared of something as a Chihuahua.
Again, this is not an excuse just a bit of an explanation on a very common theme, it us up to the owner to read their own dog and not put them in that sort of a position in the first place.
Or up to breeders to produce animals with better nerve, my favourite rant

 

[ester]

Responsibility definitely lies with owners of dogs... I do still think it's common sense to approach any animal with caution though.

I guess that is why I said 'not interacting with it' you said the dog owner had moved to the side so the runner wasn't really approaching the animal and the owner was clearly expecting them to pass.

There are joint (pedestrian+cycle routes) round here where you would never get out of a walk if you did so for every dog. They are off road routes and as such are pretty popular for all. Last night's fun was a scottie on flexi who had already terrorised the sheep and then attempted to take out several cyclists with said lead across the path even though the owner had clearly seen them.

 

[ponyparty]

Oh yes ester I have seen flexi leads come very close to causing many accidents, particularly where we used to live - we were right on a really popular cycle route, but it was a shared pathway. This is also where I saw, several times, dogs lunging at passing bikes. On a sunny day it was chaos out there and certainly seemed to be the dog walkers causing most of the problems (which also made me wonder where all those dogs are on all the not-so-sunny days?).

Yes, the woman did pull the dog to one side - perhaps she suspected it may potentially react in that way then? Or was she just being polite and moving aside? We'll never know. I see your point though, if the woman moved to the side that is an invitation to pass, and therefore one would assume pass safely.

 

[Peter7917]

The hope would be that this is this dogs first offence and that the owner will now take steps to prevent this happening again, be this by using a muzzle or walking at less busy times etc.

 

[Blanche]

I find joggers and mountain bikers the entitled ones. I live right by a canal and my local Sainsburys( other supermarkets are available) is less than five minutes down the canal( it is right on the canal too). I take the long way round in my car now as I am fed up being mown down by joggers and mountain bikers who stop for no one. They don't even go in single file even when there are children and the elderly people mooching along. They never slow down however crowded it is. The towpath is for everyone to enjoy but they ruin it for many. I find on any footpath that the joggers and mountain bikers are the ones who they own it and stuff anyone else. Obviously not every single one will be like this but I have actually yet to meet one of the exceptions.

 

[LaurenBay]

there's an awful lot of the public who have no idea about what breed of dog is what, they don't need to know if they don't want to and they should be able to run on a public path without fear of being bitten-the dog is the owner's responsibility and noone else's. If your dog is liable to bite someone who comes a bit close stick a damn muzzle on it.

^^^^^ This

Luckily mine is not bothered by runners and we regularly walk on a popular running path on a Sat morning. If he was a type to react then the responsibility would be mine to remove him from the situation. The whole world can't revolve around me and my dog.