Dog biting

Cinnamontoast

Cinnamontoast

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Situation: a puppy bit the trainer in class, hard enough to rip trousers and leave a bruise. (Apparently was going to bite his lead, trainer got in the way :confused:) The trainer was angry. The owner was angry that the trainer was angry. The owner thinks it's a breed thing to be very 'bitey' (Dobe)

Thoughts?
 
I saw this on Petforums and did a bit of a :rolleyes: face - I agree that nearly all pups go through a nippy, mouthy phase, some more than others, but 19 weeks old is old enough to be actively reprimanding a dog that will actually be hurting people at that stage. D went through a bitey phase at 6 months and it quickly ceased to be 'naww, she's just a puppy' and had to be properly dealt with for the sake of my bruised arms.

If it'd bitten me hard enough to rip jeans and leave a bruise I'd have dropkicked the little barsteward. :o
 
We've had a couple of incidents where trainers have been bitten, usually by a bolshy young dog on their first assessment who didn't take kindly to being corrected and the biting/grabbing was the reason for them coming to the club in the first place...and I also had a tracking pole snapped in half by a dog.....the owners did get firm words and the dogs did not bite the trainers or anyone else again.

I would not say it is a 'breed' thing to be bitey, it is a 'dog being allowed to be rude' thing!
 
Well I have to confuse to a few bruises on my calves inflicted by Evie's little monsters, but thats more a case of them misjudging when grabbing my trouser legs. However the 2 remaining girls are already getting the message that its not the thing to do, and certainly if they did it at 19 weeks they would be well and truly told off.
I would imagine dobe owners would not generally agree that being "bitey" was a breed things.
 
Just read a few posts on the first link, so apologies if it says different further on, but the OP on there is talking about a 10 week old pup. As I said, mine love to nip my legs but 10 weeks is a bit different to 19 weeks. Pups do nip, all new owners should be warned of this by the breeders, and told how to deal with it.
 
Never had a Dobe puppy only delinquent aged ones ,I dont for one moment think it was a Dobe thing. I think the trainer was wrong to be angry and the owner needs to wake up and stop making excuses for his dog. A dog like a Dobe will be very quick to take advantage of a weak owner but that could apply to a lot of breeds. I suppose you could argue the owner is at least taking his dog to a class in the hope that he will be trained to train his dog.

Ct why does the owner think you are a bit of a nightmare?.
 
The pup in CT's example is stated to be 19 weeks.

Can confirm that 10 week old nips are no problem and actually rather cute :o but am confident that MM will have them whipped into shape by 19 weeks. :p

Totally forgot about the RSPCA centre's summer show btw, MM, it'll be either June or July. :)
 
Baby puppies nip and grab....you stop it then, not wait til they are youngsters ripping holes in peoples' clothes.

As mentioned, they are smart and hard to work because of it....if they don't feel like doing something, they won't...one minute, beautiful heelwork, the next - sod this, I am bored, cheerio!
You need to be on them quite young. The most sketchy dog/one I felt most uncomfortable around was a dobe who had been allowed away with far too much, the owner was scared of him and the breeding was a terrible idea in the first place and I would have slapped the breeder if I ever came across them....the owner ended up leaving.
 
CT Ive seen your links and I think if you found other breed sites people would be saying the same, its a puppy thing, the older pup in the op has had no-redirection and little training. Our Lancashire Heeler would bite quite hard when she was teething and try to nip your legs which is a breed trait they nip the heels of cattle. A combination of methods all positive stopped her and she was taught bite inhibitation and we have never had a problem with her.

There are just some breeds of dogs that are not suitable for novices unless they have good trainers and a commitment to work to resolve any problems.
 
Those were 7 week old nips you experienced black cob, they hurt more now :) will keep an eye out for RSPCA show ta. I would also agree with dg that heelers def nip !
 
Dobiegirl said:
Ct why does the owner think you are a bit of a nightmare?.
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Cos of what you said above about it's a puppy thing, not just dobes. I also said I'd be appalled if any of mine had bitten hard enough to bruise/rip clothes. Apparently this means that I believe the pup to be brought up 'hugely wrongly'. I don't believe it's restricted to dobes to be nippy, but I don't think that's an ok thing to say to explain the behaviour.
 
I have a 16 month old dog I am training for a type of working trials. Part of his training means I need him to bite certain objects and it is part of his genetics, through many generations to want to grab and hold things, indeed you could say that in certain situations I want and need him to bite...while I have sustained plenty of grazes to my hands because of his eagerness to get the ball, he has never deliberately targeted me, he has never broken the skin and he has never ripped my clothes. Because he has been set boundaries, from a very early age.
 
To describe it as a "Breed thing", isn't right, but all so often, there are those breeds, often previously used for guard work, and the male members who don't learn manners early on, will sometimes use their teeth to test the boundaries.

Using the word "Bitey", is excusing the puppie's lack of respect. The puppy needs to learn some manners, and there's only one way of doing that effectively, and that's to do what another dog would do.

It never fails to surprise me when a young dog is taken to a person with experience, and then the owner, who's made a pig's ear of bringing this puppy up, suddenly knows more about it than the trainer!

C_T, if the owner wont listen, then neither will the pup. Send them packing! ;)

C_C, is that dog of yours really 16 months? We discussed him when he was 6 months!! Doesn't the time fly by? Post some pics of him? I'd like to see how he's grown.

Alec.
 
So I wonder if it chows someones arm of when it's 2 years old the owner will just say, "oops, sorry it's abreed thing":rolleyes:
I was bitten by a fecking dog with no manners a fews weeks back, I took it's lead from the owner (dog already on lead) and it bit my thigh:eek:it was a little fecker and spolit to hell, I said nothing "I was taking the dog away for this exact behaviour" I gritted my teeth said my good byes to the teary lady taking the dog with me and muttered something like "you little barsteward you won't do that again";)
I spent the next week teaching it manners it had never known before, this pup will no doubt turn out the same way if the owners don't "dog up" and and stop making excuses for theirs dogs "back answering".
Unless indeed it was simply grabbing the lead:D
I wonder in what way the trainer showed anger?

Lmao at BC, I would definately reprimand but a drop kick is possibly beyond my capabilities, I would end up on me arse:D:D
 
Never had a dobie pup but I'd hazard a guess it has nothing to do with breed, & everything to do with numpty owners with no concept of training.
 
Daisy doberman never even nipped as a puppy and certainly has never bitten anyone!

She's possibly the most mallable, easiest dog we have ever had so I doubt it is a breed thing.

When she was 2, she ripped her main pad almost off on one of her front feet- she was at the vets every 2 days for around 6 weeks having stitches in and out, staples in and out, dead tissue cut off... she was never sedated and simply used to very patiently lie there, even though it must have been very painful and she never showed any aggression at all.
 
CAYLA said:
I was bitten byI wonder in what way the trainer showed anger?
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Grabbed collar. Shook dog and called him a name. Probably ruined him for life :rolleyes:

There's another thread by the same person saying her legs are covered in scratches and bites. Must be a dobe thing! :p
 
Sorry was just mulling this over this morning....I did actually get into a row with the young dog back in March....he broke a stay and was at risk of getting into a fight with a much bigger dog...when I grabbed him and put him on the ground he chewed the arm I was holding him down with (didn't use teeth or break skin or tear sleeve) because he did not want to be held down. I kept him down until he was calm.
This was the culmination of a few weeks of bratty behaviour, I upped my control of him and he has been grand since. If the owner of the Dobe thinks being bitten and scratched by a young dog at this age is OK, she is going to run into a lot bigger problems down the road. I think the trainer did the right thing.
 
im having this problem with my gsd (she is not soilt in anyway) shes VERY mouthy but nevers breaks skin. when im grooming her my arms in her mouth, when im playing with her she gets hold of my arm, when i grab her collar to stop her doing something my arms in her mouth. I am correcting this but its a long time coming. She goes to training classes etc but shes not the most confident dog in the world so she doesnt react well to other people taking her away from me and doing work with her so its down to me (shes 10 month old)

we had a english bull terrior in classes about a month ago an it actually ripped the trainers trousers wide open. He wasnt the least bit annoyed an just corrected the dog an carried on. That dog an owner havent returned
 
EW, redirect her with a ball or something, if she is sensitive to correction, or if she starts doing it, put her away/off the sofa/etc. You need to stop it now while she is young or you will have purple arms when she is fully grown.

I did ask on here about mutual grooming and nibbling, my fella used to mouth me while I was grooming him which I used to find cute but since the chewing my arm incident all this has stopped, it is never OK to grab my arm.
You need to give the dog clarity, it is not OK for her to grab you when you do something she dislikes...so make it not OK for her to grab your arm at all.
 
CaveCanem said:
EW, redirect her with a ball or something, if she is sensitive to correction, or if she starts doing it, put her away/off the sofa/etc. You need to stop it now while she is young or you will have purple arms when she is fully grown.

I did ask on here about mutual grooming and nibbling, my fella used to mouth me while I was grooming him which I used to find cute but since the chewing my arm incident all this has stopped, it is never OK to grab my arm.
You need to give the dog clarity, it is not OK for her to grab you when you do something she dislikes...so make it not OK for her to grab your arm at all.[/QUO

i have noticed shes started to nibble now sometimes rather then bite. it tends to be when shes getting excited. when i first start grooming shes terrible we end up rolling all over the kitchen floor because she tries to grab the brush or my arm but she does settle.
playing is bad if theres no toy involved she just goes straight for my arm but i have noticed even from being a very little pup she has to always have something in her mouth.
she will lay an have a cuddle with me now without grabbing my arm but if i put my hand on her leg for instance she grabs, im sure we will get there eventually, i am firm but fair with her, if she jumps an grabs the game stops completley, if she just sneakiy tries to grab i correct her but she does stop straight away when i tell her though but she always has to try :)

But the grabbing my hand when i try to stop her doing something she doesnt want to is a working progress to be honest, to stop her if she doesnt listen to me i have to grab her collar but the minute she feels pressure around her neck she reacts, this is more worrying an i am working on it. I ask her to come and i grab her collar firmly an give her a treat which shes fine with but she just has an attitude when its something she wants to do an im stopping her, sorry that turned into a bit of a ramble but any advice aprecciated

im hoping to do some working trials with her eventually as she seems to have the traits for it (even if she doesnt want to "give" what shes found)
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So if she wants something in her mouth give her something to put in her mouth rather than your arm, when you are grooming her let her hold a ball. Don't let it turn into a wrestling match.

Sorry but it does sound like she is mickey taking a little, firm but fair? Try just being firm!

Use two balls. If you are constantly going after her and taking her ball off her, of course she will not give it up, swap one ball for another, letting go of one ball means a continuation of the game with the second one. You need to start training this now, as again, if you have an adult dog with no release, you won't get very far with dumbbells or sleeves in WT :)

With my young dog, after the arm chewing incident :p I had to adopt the approach where he doesn't fart unless I say it is OK to do so. Things have improved immeasurably because he has clarity...he is not gambling with what might be rude behaviour/what he might be able to get away with or not.
 
i am not constantly chasing her taking her toys off her. Where did you get that from?

she has her own toys in the house that are hers that she can get access to at anytime an i never take them off her.
The problem is when im actually at training or out on the field training when she "finds" the toy brings it back to me then she doesnt want to give it me.
This is because its a new toy and she wants it.
Regarding the grooming she maybe is taking the mickey but in my opinion she is being playful and everything is a game to her.
Like i said we are getting there i take her to training classes and shes very good, my trainer is helping me
Its very hard to describe her without you seeing her behaviour but she is not a big disobediant dog by any means
 
Right, you have got me wrong, I am just trying to help and I have never said she is a big disobedient dog.

she has her own toys in the house that are hers that she can get access to at anytime an i never take them off her.
Stop this - this will be half your problem. They toys belong to you, you decide when she gets them, reward her with them, for good/desirable behaviour...this is not me lecturing you, ANY trainer (and I am not a trainer) will tell you this
The problem is when im actually at training or out on the field training when she "finds" the toy brings it back to me then she doesnt want to give it me.
This is because its a new toy and she wants it.
Yes, I do understand, I have a very possessive dog myself. So in exchange for the new toy, give her another toy, always swap one for another so the game never ends...taking the toy off her, signifies the end of the game, so why would she want to give up the new toy? Incentivise her giving the toy back, she is still a young dog, always end on a high note.
Regarding the grooming she maybe is taking the mickey but in my opinion she is being playful and everything is a game to her.
A 'game' to her is hurting you physically - grooming is not a game, it is standing still and getting groomed and after she does, then she can have a game - there are plenty of other time for games
Like i said we are getting there i take her to training classes and shes very good, my trainer is helping me
Its very hard to describe her without you seeing her behaviour but she is not a big disobediant dog by any means.
Again, I never said she was a big disobedient dog, there are just a few small changes you can make to make your and her life easier. She is a young dog who needs clear rules.
I am glad your trainer is helping you. These are things I have picked up over several years at a breed-specific club geared towards working dogs from very experienced trainers...I paid a membership for the advice, it has worked very well for my young dog, I am passing it onto you for free, you may take it or you may leave it or you can tell me to bog off and I will not bother you again :)
 
I agree totally with CC, what you need to do is set bounderies which is all part of training, somethings are acceptable and others are not.

Diesel my male Dobe has in the past put his mouth around my hand, his teeth didnt make contact and I know he wouldnt bite me but its not the behaviour i want from him. Im not a fellow dog so his behaviour is unacceptable and I told him , he hasnt done it since.

When people ask for advice its entirely up to them whether they take it or not,CC has a wealth of experience and she still pays for training so we are all still learning.
 
Take the advice, don't take offence.

I think sometimes people are way too defensive: nobody is saying your dog is awful :confused:, you're being given advice, for free.
 
ooo no please dont think im being funny because im not, any advice is greatly appreciated. thats the problem with writing instead of talking it can be took the wrong way but honestly im not being funny at all.
 
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