Dog breeds known for their health.....

Moobli said:
. The exceptional ones (and I think where intelligence really comes into it) are the ones who can work out of sight, independently , without command and still know what’s required of them.
Click to expand...

If they 'know', I'd still call that genetics, personally.

I didn't teach my own dogs things like their grips, tracking behaviour, jumping style/aerodynamics :p, the way they bark, nature gave them that and I can look back and see where it came from. I just adapted what they came out of the womb 'knowing' what to do.
 
CorvusCorax said:
If they 'know', I'd still call that genetics, personally.

I didn't teach my own dogs things like their grips, tracking behaviour, jumping style/aerodynamics :p, the way they bark, nature gave them that and I can look back and see where it came from. I just adapted what they came out of the womb 'knowing' what to do.
Click to expand...

I suppose thats true enough with all breeds then, labs want to carry things and bring them to you, collies want to round things up, terriers...now terriers want to dig holes and kill things!
Which brings me to another thought - why do retireving breeds want to bring you 'food'? I understand the collie rounding things up as a dog and duck man explained it once but I don't understand a dog finding a dead rabbit and thinking - 'I'll take that to my human'?
 
CorvusCorax said:
There's actually no training you can do with a truly intelligent dog. Trust me. They know it's all bullshit. Give me a bit of stupid all day ???
Click to expand...
That is life with a Pembroke corgi any day. I compare her to my two rough collies who seem to always be waiting to do exactly what you want of them, and it’s not like having two different breeds.....but two different species ? one biddable and eager to please, one sceptical and disinterested of everything you tell them.

Interestingly of the two rough collies, one is a rough collie and one is a rough collie by virtue—he is a rough that cropped up in a litter of smooth collies (he looks like they did in the sixties, tall, long nose, slight, feathery but not profuse coat, moves like a race horse) and there is a marked difference between the two in their outlook.

The smooth bred boy is more sensitive but takes as much or as little life as you throw at him, the rough boy is more stubborn and ‘let me consider it’ (nowhere near as much as the corgi though!)

I can’t understand why smooth collies (albeit my boy is one in a pair of furry pyjamas) aren’t more popular on that premise. Calm, biddable, and take it all in their stride. VERY different in temperament and personality to their modern rough cousins (IMO)
 
In terms of generally healthy breeds though...sporting terriers and lurcher generally are as a rule. Although it’s not uncommon for some of these dogs to be extremely inbred/bred very closely, including half siblings etc.

Most I have known have made healthy old bones.
Toy/mini poodles and Yorkies used to seem to go on forever once upon a time, and stay quite robust. We lost a Yorkie last year at only four to neurological issues (he ended up paralysed) so maybe that’s not the case anymore.
 
Clodagh said:
Which brings me to another thought - why do retireving breeds want to bring you 'food'? I understand the collie rounding things up as a dog and duck man explained it once but I don't understand a dog finding a dead rabbit and thinking - 'I'll take that to my human'?
Click to expand...

They don't, their prey drive has been adapted through generations.

For instance, my dog instinctively knew to chase/identify, aquire and posses an object with a firm, crushing bite from no age. Where I kick in is teaching him to either let it go cleanly, either at a distance and guard it until I get there/when I'm beside him, or in the case of dumbbell, bring it back, sit in front, let it go. Those bits require either bribery or compulsion lol.
The bark in the guarding (his frame of mind), the speed at which he travels to the prey item, how he picks it up or the grip, the direction he turns when he brings it back etc, are all natural. I can influence certain things and try for faster/better/more control etc, but I can't put in what's not there.
But it's all pretty much prey drive, with a bit of defence/self-preservation in the guarding.
Tracking and obedience are all trained through hunt/prey/food as well.

In other breeds, it's adapted to rounding things up, bringing things back with a soft mouth, etc etc.
 
Last edited:
I thought about this a lot as a kid lol. My childhood dog killed three of my pet rabbits over two incidents of shoddy management where a door wasn't closed properly, not her fault. The rabbits were untouched, she never attempted to eat them or maul them.
She was delighted with herself and she kept coming over to my mother and 'showing us what she had done'.

She had enough 'in' her that she wanted to chase them and stop them from moving about. The only way she could do that was with her mouth, obviously shock and crush injuries killed them. But once they were no longer moving, they were not interesting then.
But adaptation/domestication meant that she didn't need or want to eat them, that had been bred out of her, but she wanted us to see it, she thought she might get something out of it from us.
She came from showing/herding stock but was never trained to do anything apart from basic pet obedience.
Interestingly the was the only dog we ever had that buried toys/bones.
 
At just over a year old, Dylan demonstrated to me what instinct can do but it still left me slightly baffled. He was off lead close to me and put up a roe doe who had been hiding in the bracken near by. He was on it very quickly, briefly grabbed a hind leg, let go, ran alongside and brought it down with a neck hold. I was running as well by then and when I reached him he immediately let go and took a couple of steps back while looking at me. The doe ran off with only a slight limp and I never walked him on the forest loose again. All very normal for a lurcher but why did he literally offer me his prize with no training to do so whatsoever?

Edit: just read CC's post which has probably answered my question!
 
CorvusCorax said:
There's actually no training you can do with a truly intelligent dog.
Click to expand...

My friend would agree with you. She has two Tibetan Mastiffs. They have learnt basics but you cannot train them as such, they don't see the point, just look at you with 'why'? The older one particularly is very intelligent, she has those deep soulful eyes that you see on gorillas. A lot going on inside. Cooperation is the best you can hope for.
 
I have now had five collies from pups over the last 22 yrs, to help me with my sheep. I have done no formal sheep training with them and it has been fascinating seeing the different ways instinct manifests itself. They have all had different ways of handling sheep, all pretty effective and we may not work like trials people and their dogs but we get the job done. My youngest who is bred from good sheepdog lines has an excellent brain and you can see her working things out and adapting her behaviour. I find this a lot more fun than having 'properly' trained dogs though no doubt many shepherds would be horrified by us.
 
planete said:
At just over a year old, Dylan demonstrated to me what instinct can do but it still left me slightly baffled. He was off lead close to me and put up a roe doe who had been hiding in the bracken near by. He was on it very quickly, briefly grabbed a hind leg, let go, ran alongside and brought it down with a neck hold. I was running as well by then and when I reached him he immediately let go and took a couple of steps back while looking at me. The doe ran off with only a slight limp and I never walked him on the forest loose again. All very normal for a lurcher but why did he literally offer me his prize with no training to do so whatsoever?

Edit: just read CC's post which has probably answered my question!
Click to expand...

Pretty much the same scenario! I did this thing using my (adapted) instincts = I get reward/validation from my boss or it satisfies my deep primal need to do this thing.

So using selective breeding, in a lurcher you create an effective collection/dispatch and delivery service and in a sport or service dog, a dog that *will not let go* of something very noisy, non compliant, threatening to hurt it, until boss comes along and tells you to and tells you what a good boy you are ;)
 
Last edited:
Breed very much matters. You cannot eliminate generations of selective breeding by rearing a puppy as a pet instead of a worker.
Its quite sad when you see how many people are clueless to the drives their dogs have because of breed traits.
The breed matters as it often drives to how the dog thinks.

Tap and understand breed traits and a lot of dogs are much easier to understand and manage.

Sadly a large amount of people have a godawful habit of buying dogs based on looks not suitability for lifestyle and research is the exception rather then the rule in many dog owners. Makes for some very interesting first puppy consults..... not everyone likes being told the breed traits to expect and advise on socialisation etc based on breed.
 
I have taken great pride in teaching a dog to do something other people thought they could not do, and to a decent level (she remains the only dog of her breed in the UK to have reached grade 6 in agility) but it absolutely did not change the dog underneath. Away from the agility field, all bets are off and even aged 10 I can not and will not have her off the lead anywhere else. Thankfully you don't tend to get many cats and bunnies hanging around when the lycra-clad hordes have descended for an agility show. :p
 
i have had many lurchers over the years and all have a certain amount of prey drive, on reflection all but one came from pet whippets or greyhounds and border collies, all of the pet bred ones were very biddable and had good recall, however my last one was VERY prey driven and once on the hunt would be completely oblivious to any commands, she got a strange look in her eyes and i dont think she even saw me let alone listen to me. her breeding was different her dad was a coursing whippet and mum was a mixture of coursing whippet/bearded collie ...i made a big mistake by not taking any notice of the breeding but she was a character and i miss her every day,
 
CorvusCorax said:
There's actually no training you can do with a truly intelligent dog. Trust me. They know it's all bullshit. Give me a bit of stupid all day ???
Click to expand...


Give me a thick dog any day of the week. My best trained dog was rather dim, but absolutely a delight to train. She competed successfully in 4 disciplines: breed showing, gained her KC stud book number, Agility, won out of grade 1 and was very consistent clear rounds but her handler (me) not fast enough for us to beat the collies, Working Trials CDex and UD open, obedience: consistently in the rosettes.
My most intelligent dog was a CKCS who didn't see the point of training and would do things if she wanted to. I travelled once all the way to Scarborough Working Trial for her to go into the search square and sit staring at me for 3 minutes, nothing would possess her to search that day. She did eventually get her CDex then she retired disgracefully. However she was a lovely little dog.
 
I chose my previous dog based on the breed having very few known issues. He was a lakeland terrier and lived to be 15. we had him put down because he was senile and getting distressed, but otherwise he was healthy.

My new dog is from a breed with surprisingly few known issues, despite being a basset. The GBGV aren't as overbred as basset hounds, and have kept the sportier traits over the generations. They also don't have the eye problems of the petits. I would describe them as a healthy breed in general.
This puppy is incredibly intelligent. I thought my previous dog was bright, but this chap is something else. You have to be on your guard because things can very quickly become learnt behaviours. He will also do just about anything for food, which helps with the training, unless there's a better smell around to investigate. I'm not into robot dogs. I prefer a little quirk, a bit of character and personality.
 
DressageCob said:
I chose my previous dog based on the breed having very few known issues. He was a lakeland terrier and lived to be 15. we had him put down because he was senile and getting distressed, but otherwise he was healthy.

My new dog is from a breed with surprisingly few known issues, despite being a basset. The GBGV aren't as overbred as basset hounds, and have kept the sportier traits over the generations. They also don't have the eye problems of the petits. I would describe them as a healthy breed in general.
This puppy is incredibly intelligent. I thought my previous dog was bright, but this chap is something else. You have to be on your guard because things can very quickly become learnt behaviours. He will also do just about anything for food, which helps with the training, unless there's a better smell around to investigate. I'm not into robot dogs. I prefer a little quirk, a bit of character and personality.
Click to expand...

Hounds are just wonderful! I have never quite worked out though how clever or how thick they are....they always seem to get what they want but play dim about other things. Like house rules and recall....!!
 
Aru said:
Breed very much matters. You cannot eliminate generations of selective breeding by rearing a puppy as a pet instead of a worker.
Its quite sad when you see how many people are clueless to the drives their dogs have because of breed traits.
The breed matters as it often drives to how the dog thinks.
Click to expand...

Amen! It isn't all in "how you raise them." I wish the idiots with Pit Bull types would get that message. If a breed is selected for certain traits for upteen generations those traits may very well pop up, especially at maturity.
 
satinbaze said:
Give me a thick dog any day of the week. My best trained dog was rather dim, but absolutely a delight to train. She competed successfully in 4 disciplines: breed showing, gained her KC stud book number, Agility, won out of grade 1 and was very consistent clear rounds but her handler (me) not fast enough for us to beat the collies, Working Trials CDex and UD open, obedience: consistently in the rosettes.
My most intelligent dog was a CKCS who didn't see the point of training and would do things if she wanted to. I travelled once all the way to Scarborough Working Trial for her to go into the search square and sit staring at me for 3 minutes, nothing would possess her to search that day. She did eventually get her CDex then she retired disgracefully. However she was a lovely little dog.
Click to expand...

I have this absolute mental image of a little CKCS sitting there.... adorable ❤️❤️❤️
 
GSD Woman said:
Amen! It isn't all in "how you raise them." I wish the idiots with Pit Bull types would get that message. If a breed is selected for certain traits for upteen generations those traits may very well pop up, especially at maturity.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! It drives me insane at the number of people who are horrified/terrified/some other emotion when their rescue greyhound chases something small and fluffy ?

It is what your dog has been bred to do for generations? It is your job as an owner to ensure the dog is never given the opportunity to do that in an inappropriate way again? What is so difficult to understand about that? ?
 
Lab/collie 17 years two tummy upsets and one cut leg in those 17 years and final visit from vet.

Fox hound / flat coat 14 years one stomach opp because he ate haylage and final home visit.
 
Don’t think we ever took Brig to the vets bar for stitching up (except when the dementia kicked in at the end ?): the vet told me 3/4 of injuries he saw were springers. He was a bit quick to go through, rather than round things.
 
Levrier said:
Absolutely! It drives me insane at the number of people who are horrified/terrified/some other emotion when their rescue greyhound chases something small and fluffy ?

It is what your dog has been bred to do for generations? It is your job as an owner to ensure the dog is never given the opportunity to do that in an inappropriate way again? What is so difficult to understand about that? ?
Click to expand...

I think my poor mother is still traumatised by witnessing little Dee unceremoniously dispatching 7 rats in one sitting and dumping them in a pile by where she was stood (there was a hell of a rat problem here when we arrived).

I've always found it curious that the westie never kills anything. She hunts things down and digs things out, but never tries to kill them. Often she chases them to Dee to kill.
 
luke_H said:
In terms of generally healthy breeds though...sporting terriers and lurcher generally are as a rule. Although it’s not uncommon for some of these dogs to be extremely inbred/bred very closely, including half siblings etc.

Most I have known have made healthy old bones.
Toy/mini poodles and Yorkies used to seem to go on forever once upon a time, and stay quite robust. We lost a Yorkie last year at only four to neurological issues (he ended up paralysed) so maybe that’s not the case anymore.
Click to expand...


My mother has had a string of Yorkies, proper ones, not toys. Never died before the age of 17. One when I was young had a massive stroke in the living room and then sat up, and calculated how to get to her food bowl leaning on furniture etc. Vet had never seen the like when she went in.

Other dogs have all been very healthy but prone to cataracts. The one they've got now isn't observant enough to know he's gone more or less blind and genuinely doesn't seem to have noticed. He also should be crippled with arthritis (very loose hock joint in one leg and is a very active dog), but isn't.

Had a yorkieXscottie rescue that had awful kidney issues, but that could be the breeding or his early life conditions.
 
What, you mean like, er, trying to noisily have a fight with an innocent, inanimate piece of training equipment?? :p

Like yours ;) there is lots of trouble that my dog could get himself into **if he was allowed**. Until such time as I can afford a secure compound where I can chuck him an antelope and he can run wild and be the feral creature that he's always dreamed of being, he can stay on a 10m flexi and suck his dummy tit. But I see your point, people get these cool and trendy breeds and make no attempt to either channel their drives or tell them to knock it off, it's just 'dogs being dogs'. I do see a spangle owner, daily, allowing his dog to bother/chase wading birds along the riverbank, which I think is extremely dickish, when I keep one of mine on a line in his own garden, which was handy, as there was a cat on the fence this morning.

My other one LOVES people and other dogs and is insanely social, but he is also a massive, clumsy oaf so I don't *let* him clamber all over strangers and splat very tiny dogs. However he is insanely territorial, as he should be typically, if the door knocks or the gate squeaks, he's all barking and hackles, therefore, I don't *let* him be anywhere near those areas of the house in the daytime. He does not need to defend me from the postman.
 
blackcob said:
Musing (I've got time on my hands... :p) - where do we draw the line between accepting breed traits and dogs being allowed to get away with dickish behaviour because "that's just what they do"?
Click to expand...

The line is at the point where the behaviour becomes dickish :p.
Is it reasonable of me that I let my terrier kill rats but let her know that she's not allowed to so much as look sideways at a chicken? I don't know, but she seems to accept and follow those rules....maybe she thinks I'm dickish ?‍♀️
 
DabDab said:
The line is at the point where the behaviour becomes dickish :p.
Is it reasonable of me that I let my terrier kill rats but let her know that she's not allowed to so much as look sideways at a chicken? I don't know, but she seems to accept and follow those rules....maybe she thinks I'm dickish ?‍♀️
Click to expand...
She just thinks you have some funny, old fashioned ideas but is prepared to humour you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top